Where to for Super Rugby?

[No4918]

Taking over now, you are on a hiding to nothing. In the short terms things only stand to get worse for the ARU. They know it, we know it, and the next CEO knows it too. With that in mind, we are almost certain to have BP at least until a team is cut and the fallout cleared. No one would want to take over now knowing what is ahead. It really is quite staggering the mess they are in, largely of their own creation.

 

[oztimmay]

Wayne Smith has updated his article. Some tidbits:

Complicating matters is the involvement of the two state governments. The West Australian government, which has already negotiated to stage a 2109 Bledisloe Cup match at its new stadium in Perth, has indicated to the ARU that if the Victorian government retaliated against any move to cull the Rebels by withdrawing the $5 million it had offered to stage an Australia-New Zealand Test, it would be prepared to host an additional Bledisloe Test in Perth plus a Test against the British and Irish Lions.



But it is now understood that the Victorian government, while it has pledged $14m to rugby projects, has entered the fray by assuring the ARU that if the WA government reacts harshly to any culling of the Force, it would consider compensating the ARU for any losses.

The victorian handed down a decent surplus in last week's budget, so you can be sure they have the money to back their support.

“The Victorian government doesn’t want us to go anywhere,” a Rebels source told The Australian. “We understand they are prepared to provide the same level of support as the WA government is supplying the Force. If we were to get that support, then it would be happy days.”

Yes, happy days for all us Rebe fans.

But wait, there's more...

Cox refused to comment on his impending lawsuit but it is understood the Rebels intend to sue the ARU for double-digit millions.

Fishing probably, but still that's a big fuckin number. If true, well it would ruin the ARU.

Link here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...n/news-story/035913b8f99fc1ec196d4049e8685eaf

 

[ChargerWA]

I noticed that & also the big empty space in the trophy wall. I'm guessing that's where they used to keep the Bledisloe

Ssshhh, most people don't know the rest aren't trophies either. They're limited edition sculptures Pulver bought on the late night shopping channel with his ARU credit card after quaffing too much Chards.

 

[I like to watch]

Yep, we could also bring Black & White TV back cause it was a success. Video rentals shops were also successful so how we get the CEO's back to talk about running a successful business?

FFS, rugby in this country is already stuck in a time warp do we need to keep living in the past?

Yeah I get that.
But if McQueen is stale bread, how do you describe Dwyer?

 

[Killer]

Melb was never going to give away a major sporting event regardless of what happened to the Rebs, goes against their DNA, esp an event 2-3 yrs away.

It's getting very interesting, the ARU is now getting politely bullied by two relative giants and no doubt is now reluctant to upset either.
Throw the preferences of the individual board members,the media and the rugby public, basically imo for keeping the WF, in there and they must be suffering a major case of analysis paralysis.

IMO the only point of difference is the Rebs private ownership, it's proven to be very expensive to the ARU over the years and the risk of an individual deciding to walk or hold the ARU to ransom is quite a risk.

 

[mst]

Yeah I get that.
But if McQueen is stale bread, how do you describe Dwyer?

Same brush.

I don't get why they need a talk fest when you can buy the answers on line right?

http://www.rugbycoachingconsultancy.com/online-shop.html

 

[ChargerWA]

I'm laughing just as much as everyone, but my question is genuine: if you were Pulver and Clyne what would you be doing at this juncture? I know we've got our ideas (and in some cases 20/20 hindsight), but say you were walked into the ARU head office next Monday morning. What would you do to deal with this mess?

Well you can count on them trying to save as much face as possible. So the only option is to go through with their plan to cut either the Rebels or Force.

Considering it's been 3 weeks and the ARU have in no shape or form rebutted WARU's assertion that the alliance agreement guarantees the Force's right to compete in Supe until 2020, the neatest way to achieve their goal is to buy back the Rebels and be safe in the knowledge that 99.9% of the public will neither know nor care how badly they fucked up and how hard they screwed themselves.

 

[mst]

I'm laughing just as much as everyone, but my question is genuine: if you were Pulver and Clyne what would you be doing at this juncture? I know we've got our ideas (and in some cases 20/20 hindsight), but say you were walked into the ARU head office next Monday morning. What would you do to deal with this mess?

Asking myself why i am pushing people to front money and "piss" it away for SANZAAR when the dollars Cox and the Force (force4) as well as the Vic and WA Governments could be used to build a really strong domestic competition that is professional and then work on the Super Rugby problem.

SA is a long way behind cutting clubs so we have time.

 

[I like to watch]

Well you can count on them trying to save as much face as possible. So the only option is to go through with their plan to cut either the Rebels or Force.

Considering it's been 3 weeks and the ARU have in no shape or form rebutted WARU's assertion that the alliance agreement guarantees the Force's right to compete in Supe until 2020, the neatest way to achieve their goal is to buy back the Rebels and be safe in the knowledge that 99.9% of the public will neither know nor care how badly they fucked up and how hard they screwed themselves.

Whose going to be surprised that when this is all over,Cox is quoted as saying "you only get one Bill Pulver in your life"....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

They've never had a strategy before, what makes you think that they have one now?

They will reactively lurch from one crisis to another with a sequence of poorly thought out, sometimes contradictory decsions in between. And then there'll be the non-decisions as well.

I thought when I read your last line you had written "they will reactively lunch from one crisis to the next"

Probably because in my mind doing a good lunch is about the only thing the aru could successfully achieve.

How the ARU could remain as our governing body for rugby from herein really is beyond me given their is a total vote of no confidence in them by the Australian public.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[lou75]

I can't help but think how this sorry saga all came about and who has benefited.
It was the summer of 15 when Gary Gray - who was on the MRRU Board introduced Andrew Cox to Rob Clarke and the secret sale negotiations began. (But wait, Gray and Clarke were old pals, back in the day, when Clarke was 2IC at the ARU - the first time, he handed millions to Gray via the ARC - circa 2005.)
In 2014, when the ARU was on its knees financially, they rejected the offer from a long time Melbourne rugby millionaire tragic to buy the ARU.
Back to 2015, Gary Gray's son, Dylan, was appointed by Cox as Imperium Manager Special Operations and later as Rebels Manager, although this stint only lasted a few months.
Rob Clarke needed the permission of the board of the VRU at the time, dare I say these hapless stalwarts simply signed away on the dotted line without any legal advice despite Tim North QC (Quade Cooper) being President.
Now we know that the sale included secret clauses that paid Cox millions over five years.
2017, the ARU are in secret negotiations to buy back the licence for the sole purpose of closing the franchise?
If Cox goes ahead with the sale, then I have to point to his advisory board as being more than a little responsible here: Wingrove, Butler, Castledine, Sidwell, Williams, Coote, Cattermole, Lamplugh, Dalziel and Ling - to the last four - how could you let this happen? And if the ARU close down the Melbourne Rebels this is on you just as much as it is Cox.
Have I missed anything here?

 

[blues recovery]

The Board of the MRRC in its various iterations has been a complete clusterfuck from day one . The amount of political bullshit , in fighting and personal agenda pushing is basically indescribable.
The two outliers in this IMO are Bob Dalziel and Lyndsey Cattermole who have also invested and continue to do so a considerable amount of their own cash into this venture ( multiple seven figure sums )
And despite their judgement being off the mark on many occasions all they wanted was to see Professional Rugby played in Melbourne .
What's not well known and was kept very quiet at the time was that through the dim dark days of 2012 and 2013 when Harold Mitchell already was sick of the dummy he'd been thrown and the club was living week to week basically going into a Friday night match hoping to earn enough cash to pay staff the following week , it was the efforts of Dalziel and Cattermole primarily that kept the club
afloat . IMO these two have nothing to be ashamed of quite the opposite irrespective of how this plays out .
In terms of how this plays out , I commented must have been 100 pages ago that given his comments of support both internally and publicly as well as now so strongly playing the Vic Govt card , if Cox is really just after the money he's got some pretty big ones as he will badly burn his bridges with the Government and forever go down in the small disfunctional family that is Vic Rugby as the Judas who sold out the game
I can't say that I have any idea what his intents really are I just hope he is an honourable man and does what he says he would do , not flog the Rebels back to the ARU if their intent is to cut and run .
Big personal fuck you all call to do otherwise

 

[Inside Shoulder]

This coaching summit is bizarre: according to Wayne smith he floated the idea in an article and then asked Clyne what thought about it. He said "“There is no disagreement from us on that front,” Clyne said. “We’ve been open on that. We’re not averse to having any sort of forum but you would need to make sure it’s set up for success. That’s the critical thing. Otherwise it’s just a talkfest. That’s the danger.”
The articled is dated today.
So is Ben Whitaker swimming outside the flags?
Or does the board think that a diversion is the best tactic?
they probably think Dwyer and Marks are sufficiently senior statesmen to avoid criticism: I'm not so sure.
Why wouldn't Cheika be the main man? Is he not considered the currently best oz coach!???
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/46b61c3469813bb3fe37b13c06ea5adb

 

[RedsHappy]

Who's the top banana at the HPU these days?

Brett Whittaker

Rumour has it Pulver keeps demanding the HPU's quarterly KPI Update, but oddly it seems constantly lost in the ARU's typing pool (can't afford word processors).

 

[blues recovery]

This coaching summit is bizarre: according to Wayne smith he floated the idea in an article and then asked Clyne what thought about it. He said "“There is no disagreement from us on that front,” Clyne said. “We’ve been open on that. We’re not averse to having any sort of forum but you would need to make sure it’s set up for success. That’s the critical thing. Otherwise it’s just a talkfest. That’s the danger.”
The articled is dated today.
So is Ben Whitaker swimming outside the flags?
Or does the board think that a diversion is the best tactic?
they probably think Dwyer and Marks are sufficiently senior statesmen to avoid criticism: I'm not so sure.
Why wouldn't Cheika be the main man? Is he not considered the currently best oz coach!???

I have to agree the timing on this is bizzare . Either Wayne Smith is getting the inside drum on what's really about to go down from someone in the ARU or they are knee jerk reacting to his article. I think it's probably the former .
Clyne "Bill this seems like a good idea and might be a nice diversion from our inability to manage a root in a brothel and it might give the appearance that we still are breathing . Get on it right away . Oh and by the way who is Dick Marks ."

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have to agree the timing on this is bizzare . Either Wayne Smith is getting the inside drum on what's really about to go down from someone in the ARU or they are knee jerk reacting to his article. I think it's probably the former .
Clyne "Bill this seems like a good idea and might be a nice diversion from our inability to manage a root in a brothel and it might give the appearance that we still are breathing . Get on it right away . Oh and by the way who is Dick Marks ."

Dick Marks was the Australian rugby coaching director from 1778 until about 1990

 

[RedsHappy]

This coaching summit is bizarre: according to Wayne smith he floated the idea in an article and then asked Clyne what thought about it. He said "“There is no disagreement from us on that front,” Clyne said. “We’ve been open on that. We’re not averse to having any sort of forum but you would need to make sure it’s set up for success. That’s the critical thing. Otherwise it’s just a talkfest. That’s the danger.”
The articled is dated today.
So is Ben Whitaker swimming outside the flags?
Or does the board think that a diversion is the best tactic?
they probably think Dwyer and Marks are sufficiently senior statesmen to avoid criticism: I'm not so sure.
Why wouldn't Cheika be the main man? Is he not considered the currently best oz coach!???
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...t/news-story/46b61c3469813bb3fe37b13c06ea5adb

Perhaps it's a quiet rip off of Kevin Rudd's National Ideas Summit of (was it?) 2008 that Cate Blanchett attended so prominently?

That helped transform Australia didn't it?

I suspect this ingenious Coaching Summit will do the same for Australian Rugby.

 

[blues recovery]

Dick Marks was the Australian rugby coaching director from 1778 until about 1990

I know you mean 1978. Dicks an old dude but not that old !!
I know who he is I'd just be surprised if either Clyne or Pulver did .

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Dick Marks bio at the ARU is a classic, it starts:
"There have been many successful comedians over the years, like Bob Hope, Danny Kay and Milton Berle, who were hilarious when on stage, but reserved and serious off stage. "
And includes

This ended when Rothmans declined to discontinue the sponsorship. As the National Director of Coaching, Marks was a professional unable to coach a team under IRB amateur regulations and now he had the chance to move into that lucrative field. Instead he fell for the wooing of the new national powerbrokers and agreed to continue running the coaching scheme on the ARU payroll. In less than a year he was retrenched with a name so blackened that his days in rugby employment were over.

The background is complex and the complete story has never been told. In 1995 Bob Dwyer had a poor World Cup coaching Australia , and knew that he had to change, or enhance, his image. In particular he wanted to butter up northern interests, aware of the need for their votes. Marks’ advice was to hire one of the world’s best coaches, Alex Evans, as assistant coach. Evans had been coaching Wales, and acquiesced, at a then record salary for a technical officer. The deal was brokered , but the CEO of the ARU had a heart attack and subsequently retired. John O’Neill was hired in his stead and was annoyed that he had not been told of the new appointment and Evans’ pending arrival.

Peter Crittle, who was President of the NSWRU at the time, did not support Bob Dwyer. He lost the national coaching position , and Greg Smith was chosen. Greg Smith would not accept Evans on his staff, as he did not know him personally. So what to do with Evans? O’Neill released the Brisbane-based Dick Marks and put Evans into his position. The first time Marks met John O’Neill was at his exit interview. He was fired. As there was a big difference between a hands-on coach and a coach educator , Evans did not last very long.

http://www.aru.com.au/wallabies/TheTeam/HistoricalWallabiesPlayerProfile.aspx?pid=842

 

[swingpass]

Dick Marks was the Australian rugby coaching director from 1778 until about 1990

i'm certain Blues knows who Dick Marks is, the "quote" was from Clyne to Bill P.
ps as an aside i went to one of the very early Rothmans coaching courses run by Dick Marks at the now defunct army apprentice school, Balcombe, on the Mornington peninsula in the early 70's and an advanced course at St Johns in Sydney