Where to for Super Rugby?

[Highlander35]

Not really no.

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[I like to watch]

If that were reality, methinks Pulver and Clyne would rock up without balls and having forgotten to book the court.

They'd be disappointed they couldn't get on the court, because the guys they hired it to were insisting they had the right to play on it.......

 

[Micheal]

It would make more sense to merge the Rebels and the Force.....

To quote Chris Dutton - "Better to join two struggling teams than sink a successful one."

But it doesn't.

The Rebels are privately owned and the Western Force have major community backing, as shown by the syndicate of 5 who are fighting to keep it alive and the Own the Force campaign, which reportedly has raised up to $8 million dollars.

Further than that, the distance between Perth and Melbourne is 2721 km. The distance from Melbourne to Canberra is 661.31 km. Having a team based in Western Australia is central to Australian rugbys national footprint - can we really call ourselves a national game without it? Having a foothold within Melbourne could also be considered hugely important as it is Australia's second biggest city. Due to their "proximity" it could be considered reasonable to "share" a team between the two.

Melbourne has a population of ~4.5 million and has grown at an average rate of 3.22% annually since 2011.

Perth has a population of ~2.04 million and has grown at an average rate of 5% annually since 2011.

Canberra has a population of ~0.39 million and has grown at an average rate of 1.5% annually since 2011.

All of the above even fails to take into account the development pathways in Melbourne, Perth and the ACT and the fact that Perth could be considered to be the strongest of the lot.

Nor does it take into account crowd sizes, nor a variety of other factors which paint the Force in a positive light.

There certainly is a case for the Brumbies to go or to be merged with Rebels, and there certainly is a very strong case for the Force to say.

I just have no faith in the ARU to have the balls to recognize that nor do I have faith for the old guard of Australian rugby to stray from tradition in favor of innovation.

 

[Micheal]

In fact - so we can all agree, what should be the main criteria for a team staying? If we can decide upon some metrics then hopefully coming to a consensus should be easier.

Demographics? Crowd sizes? State of the balance sheet and potential for improvement? On field success? Tradition?

Personally I couldn't give a fuck about tradition.

 

[Quick Hands]

ARU have spoken decision to be made in the next 48-72hrs....

Yes, they've spoken, but they've said a lot of things which haven't come to pass. If they told me it was raining, I'd step outside and get wet before I believed what they said.

 

[Slim 293]

As has already been pointed out though, Brumbies average crowd sizes, tv ratings, player development and on field success (especially on field success), and international brand recognition trump those other two teams, and they represent a strong rugby heartland.........

It would be idiotic for the ARU to consider killing their most successful team.

And merging them with the Rebels would do exactly that.

 

[Merrow]

So there are no real rugby followers in Canberra? As in people who love the game?

How long would you last if they merged the Tahs and the Reds and moved them to Brisbane?

 

[Micheal]

How long would you last if they merged the Tahs and the Reds and moved them to Brisbane?

If they merged the Tahs and the Reds and played half the games in either city I'd probably feel more compelled to go to the "Tahs" games when they were played in Sydney.

I'd absolutely keep going. Why? I love the sport.

 

[Quick Hands]

In fact - so we can all agree, what should be the main criteria for a team staying? If we can decide upon some metrics then hopefully coming to a consensus should be easier.

.

They haven't done that and won't because it might mean that someone other than their preferred candidate is axed.

I suspect that this is also how board, executive and coaching positions are appointed.

As we've seen with the tangled web of overlapping directorships etc, the whole system is geared to nepotism and cronyism.

 

[Micheal]

Yes, they've spoken, but they've said a lot of things which haven't come to pass. If they told me it was raining, I'd step outside and get wet before I believed what they said.

Exactly. In my mind, until the ARU figure out how to wriggle themselves out of the legal straight jacket they're in, nothing is off the table.

In fact, I still believe there is a 2018 where we will see 5 Australian franchises play.

Why? The ARU, from all accounts (and boy oh boy is there a lack of transparency), simply don't have the funds to battle this out in court for too long.

The Force have made it very clear they will go down swinging and are more than happy to go bankrupt on legal fees if it means the ARU has to do likewise.

Its insanely spiteful but can you really blame them?

 

[Quick Hands]

As has already been pointed out though, Brumbies average crowd sizes, tv ratings, player development and on field success (especially on field success), and international brand recognition trump those other two teams, and they represent a strong rugby heartland...

All this may be true, and while some things you have listed are objective, others are highly subjective.

What many are saying is that before any team (including the Reds and the Waratahs) are declared "safe" or not, there should have been a set of objective criteria in place. Each and every franchise should have had those same critieria applied.

Everyone wouldn't have agreed with the end decision, but at least the process would have been fair and equitable. What we have is a sham of a process in which some teams are more equal than others.

 

[todd4]

In fact - so we can all agree, what should be the main criteria for a team staying? If we can decide upon some metrics then hopefully coming to a consensus should be easier.

Demographics? Crowd sizes? State of the balance sheet and potential for improvement? On field success? Tradition?

Personally I couldn't give a fuck about tradition.

I think one thing all clubs should have learnt from this is that each franchise needs to work towards becoming financially viable. Obviously this has been a lesson learnt by the Force. Maybe each club should either conduct a 'Own the .....' campaign or look to private ownership or just take a good look at how they run their business to make sure they balance their books each year. Maybe the ARU need to tell the clubs there will be no hand-outs over and above their annual distribution.

 

[Merrow]

If they merged the Tahs and the Reds and played half the games in either city I'd probably feel more compelled to go to the "Tahs" games when they were played in Sydney.

I'd absolutely keep going. Why? I love the sport.

Yeah right. And how long would that last? Call me a cynic, but you'd be no happier about a potential merger than what we are. And seriously if you're not a fan of tradition, then frankly, the Reds and the Tahs would have to be just as bigger targets for the chopping block, if not more, than the Brumbies.

 

[I like to watch]

Exactly. In my mind, until the ARU figure out how to wriggle themselves out of the legal straight jacket they're in, nothing is off the table.

In fact, I still believe there is a 2018 where we will see 5 Australian franchises play.

Why? The ARU, from all accounts (and boy oh boy is there a lack of transparency), simply don't have the funds to battle this out in court for too long.

The Force have made it very clear they will go down swinging and are more than happy to go bankrupt on legal fees if it means the ARU has to do likewise.

Its insanely spiteful but can you really blame them?

Can't see this happening.
ARU can't possibly enter into legal battle with Force, as it opens them up to claims from SANZAAR as well.
They simply have to give Cox a big bag of money, or the Brumbies.....

 

[Micheal]

Yeah right. And how long would that last? Call me a cynic, but you'd be no happier about a potential merger than what we are. And seriously if you're not a fan of tradition, then frankly, the Reds and the Tahs would have to be just as bigger targets for the chopping block, if not more, than the Brumbies.

I'm also concerned that the Tahs and Reds aren't on the chopping block.

Like the SARU, the ARU should have laid out some criteria and left every team on the table.

As mentioned, at such a stage we may not be happy about the decision, but atleast we'd understand it.

Also, I already do see the Reds and Tahs merged in Sydney about once a year. Its called the Wallabies.

Imagine we had four of those games a year. We'd win the comp in a canter (potential backline of Gordon, Nabuli, Foley, Beale, Kerevi, Folau, Hunt next year).

In fact, fuck it. Cut the Tahs.

 

[Killer]

Can't see this happening.
ARU can't possibly enter into legal battle with Force, as it opens them up to claims from SANZAAR as well.
They simply have to give Cox a big bag of money, or the Brumbies...

Would Pulver and Clyne have to answer q's under oath? if so can't see that working out too well.

 

[BLR]

Tradition of 22 years.....right....

 

[Pfitzy]

They simply have to give Cox a big bag of money, or the Brumbies...

ARU bag of money:

 

[p.Tah]

ARU bag of money:

If that was wet, I think they'd have trouble fighting their way out of it.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

But it doesn't.

The Rebels are privately owned and the Western Force have major community backing, as shown by the syndicate of 5 who are fighting to keep it alive and the Own the Force campaign, which reportedly has raised up to $8 million dollars.

Further than that, the distance between Perth and Melbourne is 2721 km. The distance from Melbourne to Canberra is 661.31 km. Having a team based in Western Australia is central to Australian rugbys national footprint - can we really call ourselves a national game without it? Having a foothold within Melbourne could also be considered hugely important as it is Australia's second biggest city. Due to their "proximity" it could be considered reasonable to "share" a team between the two.

Melbourne has a population of ~4.5 million and has grown at an average rate of 3.22% annually since 2011.

Perth has a population of ~2.04 million and has grown at an average rate of 5% annually since 2011.

Canberra has a population of ~0.39 million and has grown at an average rate of 1.5% annually since 2011.

All of the above even fails to take into account the development pathways in Melbourne, Perth and the ACT and the fact that Perth could be considered to be the strongest of the lot.

Nor does it take into account crowd sizes, nor a variety of other factors which paint the Force in a positive light.

There certainly is a case for the Brumbies to go or to be merged with Rebels, and there certainly is a very strong case for the Force to say.

I just have no faith in the ARU to have the balls to recognize that nor do I have faith for the old guard of Australian rugby to stray from tradition in favor of innovation.

And hence why our game is in such a shite state run by the aru Muppets. Luckily they are not elected by oz Rugby supporters (what's left of them) as they would all.otherwise be out looking for new jobs or some local rugby club to run to ruin.

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