Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...orth-the-crashing-failure-of-super-rugby?rm=a

A northern view

 

[Braveheart81]

They had a tough draw

In 2020 our original test schedule for our first 10 tests (July internationals, Rugby Championship, 3rd Bledisloe) was 2 tests against the number 1 team, 3 against the number 2 team and 2 tests against the number 4 team.

We are the 7th ranked team.

I completely agree that the Reds will get better.

I don't understand whatsoever though how people can look at the 2020 Super Rugby results and think that it puts the Wallabies in a good position for the test season. It's like people are thinking that we get to play the Super Rugby sides with our test team.

 

[barbarian]

My issue is I would rather watch a comp where there are at least 6 to 8 sides I could relate to / engage with and have enough home games to watch - which is not super rugby as it is now - and even less so with say 3 oz teams involved. I ain’t a club guy but would rather watch a semi pro evenly balanced competition then the very unevenly balanced super rugby competition involving sides in unfriendly time zones and lots of non oz games I could not give a toss about. Most oz sports fans are the same.

Do you watch NRC? Because that is essentially what you describe - a semi-pro comp, evenly balanced, plenty of games at good times. Oz sports fans hardly flocked to it. Of course there were other factors in that situation, but the notion that 'more local games = better' is not necessarily true.

I'd argue that the appeal of Super Rugby was always quality over quantity. You might only watch two games in a weekend, but you felt like you were watching the best competition in the world. I'd rather two high-quality games than five mediocre ones.

Now Super Rugby drifted from that quality, clearly. But I think we might be better trying to recapture former Super Rugby quality rather than punting on a local comp that will only appeal to the hardcore.
.

 

[sunnyboys]

My problem with comparisons between Super Rugby and, say, the NRC as a replacement, is that we don’t know how the NRC might perform if elevated to the second tier position.
Imagine NRC starting in March, finals in June. And that is the top level under Test.

Do you watch it?

I know I would. I don’t how much of a success it will be. But I know as a rugby fan, that’s what I’m going to watch.

 

[fatprop]

So how do we go about this? Do we look to lower the salary cap of our Super Rugby teams and change their focus from one of being the primary selection vehicle for the Wallabies and switch them to one of a primary talent retention vehicle with the goal of shipping our best off overseas?

1/ Get stakeholders to actually commit to a common goals - ie the Wobs winning
2/ Set realistic breakeven budgets for each team
3/ Set up player pools for fringe players like the Kiwis - less talent warehousing
4/ Centrally contracted players to play where told - if we have only two decent players for position "x" in the country then they don't play for the same team. You are an employee of RA and will go where told
5/ Set agreed consistent, structures across teams (for attacking structures, lineouts, mauls. scrums etc etc)

 

[fatprop]

Do you watch NRC? Because that is essentially what you describe - a semi-pro comp, evenly balanced, plenty of games at good times. Oz sports fans hardly flocked to it. Of course there were other factors in that situation, but the notion that 'more local games = better' is not necessarily true.

I'd argue that the appeal of Super Rugby was always quality over quantity. You might only watch two games in a weekend, but you felt like you were watching the best competition in the world. I'd rather two high-quality games than five mediocre ones.

Now Super Rugby drifted from that quality, clearly. But I think we might be better trying to recapture former Super Rugby quality rather than punting on a local comp that will only appeal to the hardcore.
.

I said earlier in this thread the Aus teams playing the NRC would be my ideal, promotion and relegation, home and away, a 5.30 & 7.30 game each Friday and Saturday night

Quality, hard rugby, you could even see the Force starting in 2nd Div

 

[cyclopath]

My problem with comparisons between Super Rugby and, say, the NRC as a replacement, is that we don’t know how the NRC might perform if elevated to the second tier position.
Imagine NRC starting in March, finals in June. And that is the top level under Test.

Do you watch it?

I know I would. I don’t how much of a success it will be. But I know as a rugby fan, that’s what I’m going to watch.

They need teams people identify with in some way. For some, club rugby is their main identified team; others the current State / Provincial Super teams.
Personally I struggled with NRC as I had no real attachment to any one team so found it harder to be engaged. Hence hardly watched it. Which is not a comment on the quality, but some degree of tribalism is important for me. That said I had no problem watching Kiwi Super Rugby derbies due to the usual high quality of the games.

 

[kiap]

Do you watch NRC? Because that is essentially what you describe - a semi-pro comp, evenly balanced, plenty of games at good times. Oz sports fans hardly flocked to it.

Also increasing describes Super Rugby now:

• Closer and closer to semi-pro - or if you play Reg's return to representative rugby game, no-pro.

• Oz sports fans flocking away. A mere third of what they were and where under 30s have fallen off a cliff.

Plus an unbalanced loss-making comp with few games at good times.

But I think we might be better trying to recapture former Super Rugby

Back to the future after fifteen years? Stick a fork in, it's done.

 

[John S]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...n-to-keep-japan-involved-20200514-p54sz1.html

Interesting take from GeoRob this morning - trying to keep Japan involved. This is of course dependent on Super Rugby actually existing next year.

 

[sunnyboys]

They need teams people identify with in some way. For some, club rugby is their main identified team; others the current State / Provincial Super teams.
Personally I struggled with NRC as I had no real attachment to any one team so found it harder to be engaged. Hence hardly watched it. Which is not a comment on the quality, but some degree of tribalism is important for me. That said I had no problem watching Kiwi Super Rugby derbies due to the usual high quality of the games.

Yep connection is hard. But as I pointed out to kiwi mate (who loves to bag the AFL for blowing money on made up new teams) that the 5 NZ Super Rugby teams were all made up to a degree... granted there was that link through from the underlying provincial unions

But for Oz the second tier is hard - club rugby leaves a lot of fans outside the city without an attachment (although league and afl seem to overcome that).. and there aren’t enough pro state teams to make a stand alone comp...

 

[Mick The Munch]

Interesting article - i note the quote "Meanwhile, interim RA boss Rob Clarke will meet with players' union boss Justin Harrison and former Wallabies captain Phil Kearns on Monday."

Why oh why is Kearns so involved in these, in what capacity.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...n-to-keep-japan-involved-20200514-p54sz1.html

Interesting take from GeoRob this morning - trying to keep Japan involved. This is of course dependent on Super Rugby actually existing next year.

 

[barbarian]

Back to the future after fifteen years? Stick a fork in, it's done.

Maybe. The comp described by Geerob in today's herald has some appeal. Might be the best of both worlds - local comp for three months then a Champions League style event to get a bit of international competition happening.

My issue with that is I reckon we'd get sick of Aussie conference games after six weeks. The last month of that comp will drag on.

 

[Ignoto]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...n-to-keep-japan-involved-20200514-p54sz1.html

Meanwhile, interim RA boss Rob Clarke will meet with players' union boss Justin Harrison and former Wallabies captain Phil Kearns on Monday.
Harrison and Kearns want an audience with Clarke to discuss a list of assurances given to them by former RA director Peter Wiggs before his resignation last week.

I can understand Clarke meeting with Harrison, but I'd be telling Kearns to piss off and we don't negotiate with terrorists.

If they want to continue with with a round robin Super competition. Why don't all Southern Hemisphere nations (including Japan), run their own domestic competition, whereby the top two or three teams from each competition play the other top teams. You can call it the "Super 10" for all I care......

 

[Mick The Munch]

Agreed, aside from being one of the "old boys" and a Foxtel employee, what value can he add

I can understand Clarke meeting with Harrison, but I'd be telling Kearns to piss off and we don't negotiate with terrorists.

If they want to continue with with a round robin Super competition. Why don't all Southern Hemisphere nations (including Japan), run their own domestic competition, whereby the top two or three teams from each competition play the other top teams. You can call it the "Super 10" for all I care..

 

[Micheal]

Yep connection is hard. But as I pointed out to kiwi mate (who loves to bag the AFL for blowing money on made up new teams) that the 5 NZ Super Rugby teams were all made up to a degree. granted there was that link through from the underlying provincial unions

But for Oz the second tier is hard - club rugby leaves a lot of fans outside the city without an attachment (although league and afl seem to overcome that).. and there aren’t enough pro state teams to make a stand alone comp.

I also think one of our problems in terms of getting people interested in teams is the players themselves.

Our over-reliance on ex-private school players means that we have the fucking blandest, least interesting player base in the history of all time.

I went to Shore, and all of the guys in my year who played representative football are beige. They are "good blokes" in so far as they have never upset or differentiated themselves from the rest of the tribe of "good blokes". They're private school to a tee - they've never left the Eastern Suburbs, they wear white on Sundays, they own boat shoes and aspire to work in financial services one day, where they will continue to shrink anything that is unique to them. Getting 16-year-old-drunk into their late 20s is the closest they've ever come to having an actual personality trait.

It's a culture that's built upon conservatism and not straying from the group identity or challenging the status quo. Showing personality or setting yourself apart is frowned upon.

When have we heard anything but mindless platitudes from Hooper, Kurtley Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Reece Hodge, To'omua, Slipper, Rodda etc? From the old boys union, when have Eales or Gregan or Kearns ever actually said anything funny? Or anything particularly insightful?

Can you ever imagine these blokes having the type of banter that you'd see on the Footy Show of yesteryear?

I'm not a league fan, but I'm hugely interested in Klemmer. He's a rough bloke, who is outspoken, passionate and defiantly himself. If someone takes Ponga out off the ball, there is part of me that thinks he might actually murder them, based upon the passion in his face.

He has night terrors. He literally screams in his sleep. That's interesting isn't it? I learnt it in an interview I watched with him. I wonder why he has them? I've genuinely spent time thinking about it. Can you name any similar idiosyncrasies about any of your Super teams players?

I like Lattrel Mitchell, I like Andrew Fifita, I like the Johns brothers ("it's better than lego" is hilarious and so inherently them), I like Blake Ferguson. I hate Gallen, I hate Thurston, the list goes on.

Harry Johnson-Holmes' Instagram is the closest I've got to being genuinely interested in a Union player in a long time. He's funny as fuck.

I also think the Wallabies is bad for developing interest in players, in that the best players across the country are required to come together and be friends with one another. I'd love to have a Paul Gallen in our game. The whole of QLD hates him, and half of NSW. I want one-club players to hate other one-club players. I want animosity in games. I want tension and excitement.

I'm a massive UFC fan and half of the excitement there comes from the drama that they actively create. Watching two people fight is exciting in and of itself, but when there is a narrative behind it and a story, it's a thousand times better.

We have no narratives, we have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

 

[KOB1987]

I'd love to have a Paul Gallen in our game. The whole of QLD hates him, and half of NSW. I want one-club players to hate other one-club players. I want animosity in games. I want tension and excitement.

We have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

That sounds like Kurtley to me.

 

[Mick The Munch]

We have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

Have a look at Tom English's Insta account

 

[John S]

Interesting article - i note the quote "Meanwhile, interim RA boss Rob Clarke will meet with players' union boss Justin Harrison and former Wallabies captain Phil Kearns on Monday."

Why oh why is Kearns so involved in these, in what capacity.

Yep, with you there.

 

[Mick The Munch]

Yep, with you there.

Foxtel representative?

 

[Ignoto]

We have no narratives, we have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

How much of this has to do with society absolutely scalding those who stick out? As a result, clubs across the globe spend a considerable amount of time training their players how to answer questions without causing any issues.

Hell, have a watch of 'The Last Dance' and see how arguably the best Basketball team interacted with the media and other players. Huge difference just in 20 years.

In saying that, over the last couple of months and year, clubs have been allowing players to take over their social media accounts and give us a glimpse inside on who they really are. In recent memory, the Smith Twins, Tupou, Liam Wright, Johno Lance have all shown some type of shenanigans they do on their team etc

The last 'larger' than life personality that fits your bill that I can think of is Wendel Sailor. That first game at Suncorp after he left the Reds for the Waratahs was packed and everyone gave it to him. The likes of Kurtley Beale doesn't fit the mould as he just comes off as an entitled twat rather than a larikan like Dell.