Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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kiap
Steve Williams (59)
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
Added to the accessibility argument is the ageing of the died on rugby tragic. Arthritic knees and the promise of a roaring fire and a good meal with a decent red makes TV viewing a better proposition the braving the cold and time spent travelling.
Speaking on behalf of a friend of course.
louie
Desmond Connor (43)
Rugby League attacking... the same Rugby League whose Sydney professional clubs have 12mil loss last year. The same Rugby League thats just signed a new broadcast deal worth 30million less a year with a media partner those earnings have drop 25% each year for the last two. The same fox whose parent company NEWSC has just written down the value of Foxtel by 1.4 billion.
I wouldn't be signing any unproven RL players to long contracts if i was NRL
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
We must have the same friend.
It also hits hard on the other end of the spectrum - the colts players can't afford to go and spend $9.80 for a schooner of mid-strength. Especially when the current craft beer market means half of them don't even drink the stuff.
We've all heard the doom and gloom about RA/Foxtel/Reds/Tahs/Brumbies/Rebels/QRU/NSWRU/Jindabyne Mudchooks/Proserpine Camelbaks/Toorak Houndstooths, etc (but NEVER the magnificent Wagga Waratahs) as well as a multiplicity of suggested competition routes going forward. My head's starting to get that sore feeling I vaguely remember from the evening at the RACA when the Oz rugby competitions wallah went through the new, as it was, 18 team format with a chant of "six, five, four". I immediately thought then that that format would be a dud (there's a post of mine somewhere at the time), as are many of the new competition formats suggested here on G&GR. To my mind there are two ways forward for the rest of 2020, which should also be persisted with for 2021. They are:
1. Some sort of Oz Super Rugby competition with the five sides playing home and away finishing up in a compact finals series (possibly 2v3 followed up with the winner playing 1 in the final). I'd be very wary of any possible PI/Asian involvement due to costs at this stage together with the difficulty of overseas air travel. IF/WHEN air travel restrictions are lifted we should involve our PI friends in some sort of involvement, with a stipulation the Pacifika team/s play in Oz.
2. Alternatively, a rock solid commitment to the NRC with one major improvement: a western Sydney side is essential. Sydney's ARC/NRC numbers have wobbled from 3>4>3>2. There are plenty of rugby players in Australia's largest city for three teams. I'm not that fussed on a Fijian team in the initial stage.
We have to cut our coat according to our cloth this year. And next.
1. Some sort of Oz Super Rugby competition with the five sides playing home and away finishing up in a compact finals series (possibly 2v3 followed up with the winner playing 1 in the final). I'd be very wary of any possible PI/Asian involvement due to costs at this stage together with the difficulty of overseas air travel. IF/WHEN air travel restrictions are lifted we should involve our PI friends in some sort of involvement, with a stipulation the Pacifika team/s play in Oz.
2. Alternatively, a rock solid commitment to the NRC with one major improvement: a western Sydney side is essential. Sydney's ARC/NRC numbers have wobbled from 3>4>3>2. There are plenty of rugby players in Australia's largest city for three teams. I'm not that fussed on a Fijian team in the initial stage.
We have to cut our coat according to our cloth this year. And next.
Jimmy_Crouch
Ken Catchpole (46)
PhilClinton
Mark Loane (55)
I thought the ‘Leagues Club’ and the NRL entity were seperated financially. Or is that just the case with the Broncos?
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I've been thinking about this quite a bit and reflecting on Reg's article, I reckon what we do is:
- Start with club footy in all the rep states being restarted and developed to the point where rep players are regularly playing in those comps. This should start in Feb/March-ish
- With the majority of the club comp completed, take all of the Australian first class sides (WA, VIC, ACT, NSW, QLD) and have them playing a round robin comp. I'd like PI team and/or Sunwolves to be involved as well.
- Depending on the timing on the test window, select the Wallaby team at the conclusion of the comp or part way through
Jimmy_Crouch
Ken Catchpole (46)
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Brendan Murphy at a senate hearing today indicated international broader restrictions will be the last to be lifted and he can't see this happening for a long time and at this stage can't see it at all...
Aside fro NZ [even then around Christmas] means all other nations can't compete.
I can't see a government bail out placing Fox in a prime position to call the tune as Optus have clearly stated they are not interested.
My broader question, which I don't know an answer to, is. Do we kill Super Rugby now and spend what little we have left in trying to build a competition that is sustainable or do we sit by and hope something comes along and saves us. Both options have huge but different risks.
Aside fro NZ [even then around Christmas] means all other nations can't compete.
I can't see a government bail out placing Fox in a prime position to call the tune as Optus have clearly stated they are not interested.
My broader question, which I don't know an answer to, is. Do we kill Super Rugby now and spend what little we have left in trying to build a competition that is sustainable or do we sit by and hope something comes along and saves us. Both options have huge but different risks.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Surely the answer obvious to most of us is yes build a sustainable competition, start immediately.
More to the point, doing this in the Covvid-19 interim does nothing to impact a potential return to Super, if that is how we were minded. But potentially some actions now with a return to Super in mind - could scuttle the future chance of an alternative.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Normally and my history to date would say lets get a new competition up and running.
Issue is RA from the financials is technically insolvent.
Starting with negative cash, no media deal in place, no income and no crowds allowed makes getting revenue lets say difficult.
Remember to we still have broader restrictions in place in WA, SA, NT, QLD & Tassie ....
I feel very sad and have lost my anger I ragged against structures, systems for maybe 18 years or more.
Our various management teams over the years have lacked the ability to analysis our positions but have been expert in telling us what a great job they have done to the extent even now posters both here and on the Roar defend most decisions made.
Something deep down in my soul tells me NZ & SA will team up with someone else as they both have decent media deals and its their teams Europe wants to watch. We are becoming a liability to them.
Rugby will not disappear it will just slip a little down the totem pole.
I am just sad today to see the state of the game the infighting, the egos, etc. In regards professional rugby, we have lost all control of our future and are totally dependent on how others treat us.
I would dearly love to establish our own competition but the only way I see that today is via club rugby and whether that can generate enough interest and support is doubtful.
Finsbury Girl
Trevor Allan (34)
The mass exodus is highly unlikely.
Somehow the best 200 players in Australia will find a job elsewhere? And where exactly would that be?
I am discounting league, most likely they will have earmarked talent for their game via their own programs. Perhaps a few might go across that otherwise would not, however I am concentrating on blokes who actually want to play rugby.
It is most certainly not open slather anywhere in the word, rules around visa and qualification, restrictions on foreigners are in every major league in the world. Further consider that the state of the game financially is in dire straits everywhere at the moment and will likely be under considerable strain for the considerable future.
Outside of the top 20 or so players, the rest would be most likely looking at league 2 competitions. Even during the so called "boom years" spots there are not exactly growing on trees
For example my London club is in the English division 2, London Scottish. The standard here is probably the best of all the European second divisions, perhaps France would be similar. The standard is comparable to first grade & wages are considerably less than in the first division.
Looking in the medium term, what is the value proposition? go overseas, probably to a 2nd division club in a small town playing for a modest wage playing in small venues, most of which are comparable to Sydney and Brisbane club in terms of facilities, I concede some are a lot better. If you strike it lucky perhaps you'll land in the south of France or Japan with considerably better weather than the UK or Ireland.
Or you can play locally with the prospect of higher honours, playing for your state or country. This still means something contrary to what many posters here say. Wages will still be modest however still likely to be enough for a young man to live comfortably. Lifestyle is another big factor. Money isn't everything.
It is not too hard to imagine a smaller program for representative football. A program perhaps not dissimilar to the old Pacific championship with a handful of games each season. Who would play in this competition? Now that's a tough one, perhaps the unions from the 1st division NPC? Depends on where pivot NZ takes from here. I suspect more emphasis on NPC in the short term. But NZ and Aus provincial unions have relationships going back many, many, decades. I'm sure they will find some common ground that works for both commercially and culturally. Most people appreciate that they are stronger together.
Somehow the best 200 players in Australia will find a job elsewhere? And where exactly would that be?
I am discounting league, most likely they will have earmarked talent for their game via their own programs. Perhaps a few might go across that otherwise would not, however I am concentrating on blokes who actually want to play rugby.
It is most certainly not open slather anywhere in the word, rules around visa and qualification, restrictions on foreigners are in every major league in the world. Further consider that the state of the game financially is in dire straits everywhere at the moment and will likely be under considerable strain for the considerable future.
Outside of the top 20 or so players, the rest would be most likely looking at league 2 competitions. Even during the so called "boom years" spots there are not exactly growing on trees
& wages are considerably less than first divisions/top leagues.
For example my London club is in the English division 2, London Scottish. The standard here is probably the best of all the European second divisions, perhaps France would be similar. The standard is comparable to first grade & wages are considerably less than in the first division.
Looking in the medium term, what is the value proposition? go overseas, probably to a 2nd division club in a small town playing for a modest wage playing in small venues, most of which are comparable to Sydney and Brisbane club in terms of facilities, I concede some are a lot better. If you strike it lucky perhaps you'll land in the south of France or Japan with considerably better weather than the UK or Ireland.
Or you can play locally with the prospect of higher honours, playing for your state or country. This still means something contrary to what many posters here say. Wages will still be modest however still likely to be enough for a young man to live comfortably. Lifestyle is another big factor. Money isn't everything.
We are lucky in that the game has mostly been strongly supported by business. I don't foresee this changing much any time soon, however we will have to get used to living with a much smaller financial pie.
It is not too hard to imagine a smaller program for representative football. A program perhaps not dissimilar to the old Pacific championship with a handful of games each season. Who would play in this competition? Now that's a tough one, perhaps the unions from the 1st division NPC? Depends on where pivot NZ takes from here. I suspect more emphasis on NPC in the short term. But NZ and Aus provincial unions have relationships going back many, many, decades. I'm sure they will find some common ground that works for both commercially and culturally. Most people appreciate that they are stronger together.
zer0
John Thornett (49)
Doubt it. I dare say the franchises aren't going anywhere and will continue to remain the focus of professional rugby in NZ because the benefits far outweigh the costs: the player development pyramid/pathways work, it limits costs, and largely drives provincial level bickering to the peripheral.
Though that would, naturally, lead to some problems for those proposals I've seen here that see Australian state rep teams playing NZ sides in a TT or regional competition later in the season.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I can’t speak for the NZ components of this but I agree completely with the domestic aspects. Sounds like the Kiwis are happy to play with NZ Pesos anyway, so whatever happens happens.
Rugbynutter39
Michael Lynagh (62)
My issue is I would rather watch a comp where there are at least 6 to 8 sides I could relate to / engage with and have enough home games to watch - which is not super rugby as it is now - and even less so with say 3 oz teams involved. I ain’t a club guy but would rather watch a semi pro evenly balanced competition then the very unevenly balanced super rugby competition involving sides in unfriendly time zones and lots of non oz games I could not give a toss about. Most oz sports fans are the same.
I am just a tired and frustrated oz rugby person waiting for something better - and it ain’t the current super rugby crap that very few care for anymore. Twiggy camp want better solutions and so does RA so be great if egos and the past got put aside to look to a better future. I don’t buy this BS that neither need each other to create a better outcome for both camps, oz rugby and rugby in Asia Pacific. So stop with the BS, get to the table and take the opportunity for both parties to have a better outcome.
I am just a tired and frustrated oz rugby person waiting for something better - and it ain’t the current super rugby crap that very few care for anymore. Twiggy camp want better solutions and so does RA so be great if egos and the past got put aside to look to a better future. I don’t buy this BS that neither need each other to create a better outcome for both camps, oz rugby and rugby in Asia Pacific. So stop with the BS, get to the table and take the opportunity for both parties to have a better outcome.
dru
David Wilson (68)
^^^This.
Is it overly pessimistic? The Brumbies were a genuinely good side this year. The Rebels were 3 and 3, the Reds looked promising but were 2 and 5 and the Tahs were terrible and were 1 and 6.
Absolutely there's talent there and hopefully a golden generation coming through from our recent under 20s (which is largely why the Reds look promising).
That's not enough on its own though. It's not like things get easier when the test matches start. Looking promising doesn't beat the best sides in the world.
Things were even worse last year and people wonder why the Wallabies were pretty terrible. Absolutely Cheika's gameplan was shocking but we're never going to be consistently challenging the top sides if most of our teams are losing substantially more games than they win. A new coaching setup isn't suddenly going to make all those problems at the level below disappear.
Let's also remember that the South African Super Rugby sides have got weaker with more of their top players heading overseas. In a RWC year their test side got much better because they could bring in all their best players but didn't suffer the downside of international windows and lack of cohesion etc. that would ordinarily occur if you were recalling too many players from all around the world.
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