Where to for Super Rugby?

[wamberal]

Foxtel representative?

Village idiot (That's Mosman Village of course). Or maybe Court Jester.

 

[Mick The Munch]

The media hounded most of the players out of the game in "the last dance", no wonder players don't want to stand out now

How much of this has to do with society absolutely scalding those who stick out? As a result, clubs across the globe spend a considerable amount of time training their players how to answer questions without causing any issues.

Hell, have a watch of 'The Last Dance' and see how arguably the best Basketball team interacted with the media and other players. Huge difference just in 20 years.

In saying that, over the last couple of months and year, clubs have been allowing players to take over their social media accounts and give us a glimpse inside on who they really are. In recent memory, the Smith Twins, Tupou, Liam Wright, Johno Lance have all shown some type of shenanigans they do on their team etc

The last 'larger' than life personality that fits your bill that I can think of is Wendel Sailor. That first game at Suncorp after he left the Reds for the Waratahs was packed and everyone gave it to him. The likes of Kurtley Beale doesn't fit the mould as he just comes off as an entitled twat rather than a larikan like Dell.

 

[Dctarget]

League isn't a good comparison because SOO is the height of their game, whereas International Rugby is the height of our game. The Paul Gallen's exist, just in foreign countries: Owen Farrell, Itoje, Hartley, Quade Cooper, Botha, Marler, Huget all players that the fans love to hate.

No League fan gives a fuck about any league NZ/English player.

 

[barbarian]

We have no narratives, we have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

An interesting post for sure. It's a bit of swings and roundabouts though - while our players white bread nature might mean their stories aren't as interesting, it also means they generally stay out of trouble.

League suffers because of it's players propensity to get into trouble off the field. The backgrounds that provide interesting stories can also provide issues with addiction, violence, mental health and disrespect for others.

This costs the game sponsors and it costs the game support (from women especially). It detracts from what happens on the field, without fail every year.

That doesn't take away from the core point of your post, that we need to do better. The Honey Badger was the last genuine weirdo we had, and we did a good job with him but we need to find a few more in our midst.
.

 

[kiap]

Maybe. The comp described by Geerob in today's herald has some appeal. Might be the best of both worlds - local comp for three months then a Champions League style event to get a bit of international competition happening.

My issue with that is I reckon we'd get sick of Aussie conference games after six weeks. The last month of that comp will drag on.

A Champions League style event has more going for it. There have been advocates of it for some time.

Geerob's article is (by necessity) vague on detail.

The use of the term 'conferences' is interesting if, say, there are no more Indian Ocean flights in the regular season.

I don't actually care about semantics - call them whatever you want - but moving past the old concept opens possibilities. Teams per 'conference', for instance, can be adjustable locally.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Rugby's great appeal is that it is an international game but Super Rugby and TRC has actually watered this down this element for players and spectators. Seasons become repetitive, playing the same team with the same players and going to the same locations.

 

[Rob42]

We have no narratives, we have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

True, and the teams have not done a great job of promoting the personalities. Why do my kids care about Dan Ricciardo moving from Renault to McLaren in F1? Because they got to know the personalities through the Netflix doco. Something like that would be great, but it doesn't even need that level of investment. 10 or 15 years ago, it was the Tah Talk podcast that really made me a committed Tahs supporter, getting to know the people off the field, especially the fringe players and coaches. That sort of thing, done consistently and well, is so important.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Rugby's great appeal is that it is an international game but Super Rugby and TRC has actually watered this down this element for players and spectators. Seasons become repetitive, playing the same team with the same players and going to the same locations.

Really? Then how would you explain the success of the NRL and AFL? Being that it's the same teams. In the same locations playing with largely the same players year on year.

 

[Braveheart81]

Really? Then how would you explain the success of the NRL and AFL? Being that it's the same teams. In the same locations playing with largely the same players year on year.

They have 16 or 18 teams and have been going for over 100 years.

The tribalism is core to that and isn't something that can be created in any short period of time.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

They have 16 or 18 teams and have been going for over 100 years.

The tribalism is core to that and isn't something that can be created in any short period of time.

Yep. They care about the teams they are playing. And the ratings suggest that Australian Rugby fans care most about playing other Australian teams.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A Champions League style event has more going for it. There have been advocates of it for some time.

Geerob's article is (by necessity) vague on detail.

The use of the term 'conferences' is interesting if, say, there are no more Indian Ocean flights in the regular season.

I don't actually care about semantics - call them whatever you want - but moving past the old concept opens possibilities. Teams per 'conference', for instance, can be adjustable locally.

I'd go for our 5 plus Fiji and Samoa from GRR in our conference to start. I like the idea of a Champions League structure involving Japan. Though I'd prefer it to feature 4 teams from each conference split into 4 pools of 4 for 3 to 6 extra games with the pool winner progressing to the finals.

 

[BDA]

I like the idea of each country running their own domestic comp, then coming together for some type of Super 8 knockout tournament. It gives us a local comp that focuses on Aussie teams but also gives you something that might appeal to the broadcasters.

As regards the domestic comp here in Australia, you're really going to have to build it from the ground up and just forget about its profitability and appeal in the short term. And by that I don’t mean putting something together that just hemorrhages money; that’s the current Super Rugby model. We do have to take several steps back before we can start to move forward and one of the problems seems to have been that, before COVID came along, no one in RA was willing to burn it down and start again (which is really what was required).

It’ll take years to build a local comp that is both competitive with other local footy comps, and profitable enough that you can retain more than a handful of the world’s best players, but it's doable. Despite what some would have you think, there is still a strong rugby community in Australia.Others more educated on the topic might be able to correct me, but I would have thought that RA bring in a fair chunk of cash every year just on the back of the wallabies brand. It seems a lot of that cash has been wasted, for too long, trying to prop up an overly expensive super comp that Aussies aren’t interested in. A straight domestic comp can be run on a smaller budget and theoretically should garner comparatively better crowds. I would have thought with the money that RA can garner from the international rugby and broadcast deals (which might helped by some type of Super 8 tourney) they should be able to put out a 7 or 8 team tournament (maybe with some of the GRR teams) that is viable and not bleeding money. Whilst you would be starting from scratch, you do have the benefit of using brands that are established and have some tribalism attached to them.

Ultimately if they create something that is entertaining, it will be a success. In the short term, it would necessitate scrapping the ban on overseas eligibility for the Wallabies. Yes you might see a few more name players heading abroad but there is more than enough good young talent coming out of AUS to put together 8 competitive, entertaining sides.

Of course all of this requires long term strategy, patience, effort and nurturing over a number of year, something management in the RA seems incapable of.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Really? Then how would you explain the success of the NRL and AFL? Being that it's the same teams. In the same locations playing with largely the same players year on year.

Because there is no real alternatives in these sports. NRL and AFL are the peak competitions.

AFL is the sport. It has nothing else. No internationals nor other competitions. Single narrative but completely self reliant.
NRL has only one competitor which is the Super League in England. The international game actually falls secondary to these competitions.

 

[BDA]

I will add that moving to a Domestic comp opens the door for the RA to do their own State of Origin style annual clash, something that has been talk about for a long time but wasn't viable under the current set up. It would no doubt pull in viewers.

It probably requires you to move away from the State based domestic teams (i.e. The Qld Reds would just be the Reds (aka the Brisbane Reds), the tahs would just be the Tahs (aka the Sydney Waratahs)..that then allows you to do a QLD v NSW style clash.

 

[wamberal]

Yep. They care about the teams they are playing. And the ratings suggest that Australian Rugby fans care most about playing other Australian teams.

But they (or we) do not care enough, do we? That's the crux of it, for me.

 

[wamberal]

League isn't a good comparison because SOO is the height of their game, whereas International Rugby is the height of our game. The Paul Gallen's exist, just in foreign countries: Owen Farrell, Itoje, Hartley, Quade Cooper, Botha, Marler, Huget all players that the fans love to hate.

No League fan gives a fuck about any league NZ/English player.

They used to, that is for sure. A long time ago, admittedly. But a tour to Australia by the GB Lions used to be a big thing. That was back in the days when our game was (officially) amateur, of course.



Then of course the local game got comparatively stronger, and SOO happened (by accident) and was a huge success (totally unexpectedly - it was supposed to be a bit of an exhibition series) and many years later here we are. League fans care a lot about foreign imports when they are playing in the NRL.

 

[BDA]

But they (or we) do not care enough, do we? That's the crux of it, for me.

I think part of the issue is that in the grand scheme of Super Rugby, our local derbies usually carry very little importance in circumstances where none of the teams (bar maybe one) have any genuine chance of making a grand final. That goes to the heart of the ambivalence Aussies have towards Super Rugby. With a domestic comp you have at least 4 final spots for Aussie teams. That gives more meaning to every game because the 4th, 5th, 6th best teams in AUS are still in with a shot of making the finals. It gives you guaranteed semi finals and grand finals in Australia every year which brings in additional revenue. Most importantly you have an Aussie team lifting a trophy which is what creates life long fans.

 

[John S]

League suffers because of it's players propensity to get into trouble off the field. The backgrounds that provide interesting stories can also provide issues with addiction, violence, mental health and disrespect for others.

This costs the game sponsors and it costs the game support (from women especially). It detracts from what happens on the field, without fail every year.

You just need to look at the entitlement of Lattrell & co breaking the COVID-19 restrictions to see that.

 

[wamberal]

I also think one of our problems in terms of getting people interested in teams is the players themselves.

I went to Shore, and all of the guys in my year who played representative football are beige. They are "good blokes" in so far as they have never upset or differentiated themselves from the rest of the tribe of "good blokes".

Maybe the problem is that we are built heavily on an ethos of amateurism. Our game is more popular in the elite schools, that is a fact of life. Not only GPS schools, incidentally. Most of our players, if not all of them, are expected to finish their HEC and go on to do some sort of tertiary studies.

Could you ever imagine these blokes having the type of banter that you'd see on the Footy Show of yesteryear?

Here's the nub of it. There is enormous competition in junior league from a very early age, and kids as young as 14, maybe younger, can earn significant signing fees. Most of them are from what are in effect less privileged backgrounds. They rub shoulders from the start with a whole lot of rough diamonds, they are coached by some tough men, and they have to be survivors.

We have no narratives, we have no personalities, we have no villains, we have no heroes. We need to a better job of promoting our players and their personalities, and they need to work on actually fucking having one.

Everybody has a personality. Some are inherently more interesting than others, that is just a fact of life. A kid who has struggled his way up from nowhere to become a star at 18 (and is starting to earn big money for the first time in his, and his family's, life) is inherently more "interesting" in the Australian context than the kid who is enrolled at a rugby playing GPS school at birth.

But every player has a story. If we were willing to employ a small stable of writers, skilled in writing biographies, we could make almost any player's story interesting. Not as interesting as that of an indigenous kid from a very deprived background who made the grade through sheer talent and a lot of luck, but still interesting.

 

[John S]

True, and the teams have not done a great job of promoting the personalities. Why do my kids care about Dan Ricciardo moving from Renault to McLaren in F1? Because they got to know the personalities through the Netflix doco. Something like that would be great, but it doesn't even need that level of investment. 10 or 15 years ago, it was the Tah Talk podcast that really made me a committed Tahs supporter, getting to know the people off the field, especially the fringe players and coaches. That sort of thing, done consistently and well, is so important.

The Tahs are getting slightly better at this, with regular emails with what the Tahs are up to, and spots on certain players, but isn't the same.

Sean Maloney and Beth Newman doing a weekly Rugby Nation show is probably going a bit further, bring the players to the fans. Well, I've enjoyed their first couple of podcasts.