Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

Think we also got problem that RA don't have a CEO yet, isn't Clarke just a fill in with no interest in carrying on? Kind of makes me think that is one reason RA has never probably come up with a comp? Buggered if I know, but if as WOB says NZR leaking things, and RA's response is to just talk to papers, I not sure what is going on. I wonder what was actually said on the CEOs Sanzaar hook up last week. And these hook ups aren't leaked Mark Robinson seems pretty open about them, when there is a WR (World Rugby) one, Sanzaar one etc.

 

[Dan54]

It kicked off mid Feb in 2019 and 2018. So Super Rugby has been kicking off 'early' for some time. You mustn't watch many sports league if 18 rounds is too long for you to be able to stay engaged.

Yep and I watch all rugby, I know when it kicks off and how long it goes for. Isn't everyone on the forum not actually suggesting how it could be improved? still think it should be March, see NRL and AFL have to have longer comps as they got no internationals at end to make it go longer. I reckon 10-12 week comp, followed by North/South in NZ and similar here before test season would keep everyone a lot more engaged.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep and I watch all rugby, I know when it kicks off and how long it goes for. Isn't everyone on the forum not actually suggesting how it could be improved? still think it should be March, see NRL and AFL have to have longer comps as they got no internationals at end to make it go longer. I reckon 10-12 week comp, followed by North/South in NZ and similar here before test season would keep everyone a lot more engaged.

Because it's worked so well for us up until this point?

 

[Mr Wobbly]

It was miles to early!! Should never kick off until March!! See I a fan of whatever comp that comes along it should be shorter than 18 weeks, I know broadcasters may have a say that makes it longer, but if you go for fan engagement shorter and sharp is answer!

The Top 14, Top League, Premiership, Pro14, and MLR beg to differ.

 

[Rebels3]

Aus clubs are wanting a minimum of around 8 home games to be financially viable. 10-12 weeks would send the game even more broke than it currently is

 

[Rebels3]

Without doubt there is politics in NZ rugby as we see this different strong and opposing views come out from there. I personally feel the failure with pro super rugby models and where at risk of same mistakes made with any new competitions has been too many old school rugby people from amateur days involved in positions of influence in rugby who would not have the first clue about what is required to build a successful commercial professional competition in the region. For sure Australia suffered from this but NZ certainly has the same problem - happy if others going to argue the coin toss of how much worse in Australia it is then in NZ but definitely a problem in both countries from where I sit.

You could argue if Aus had a WC 9yrs ago and a lions tour 3yrs ago it would be in NZ shoes financially and NZ would be in Aus shoes. We need to get away from the cycle of waiting for Lions tours and the odd World Cup to prop the game up.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You could argue if Aus had a WC 9yrs ago and a lions tour 3yrs ago it would be in NZ shoes financially and NZ would be in Aus shoes. We need to get away from the cycle of waiting for Lions tours and the odd World Cup to prop the game up.

It is about leveraging the success and growth of the world game in the region which both RA and NZRU from incompetence, self interest and key stakeholders from amateur days of rugby entrenched in old school thinking that has inhibited seizing the opportunity.

We have things that AFL and NRL will never have which is strength of world game that the above has failed to seize. If I was setting up a new successful sporting pro competition I would not be seeking the expertise of NZRU and RA - oh that’s right seems Twiggy thought the same with rapid rugby.

That is why I really hope with private equity investment a more commercial mindsight can be brought to a competition in the region that fans can engage in, connect to and see pathways for growth (rather than self interest of national unions)

 

[Dan54]

Because it's worked so well for us up until this point?

Not sure what you mean, I not sure it has worked so well, why I suggesting a change! I not suggesting it only change, but I really think a couple of different formats than just one long one may create more interest.

 

[dru]

I doubt there's a power struggle as such but there's almost always been factions & I'd be surprised if that isn't still the case e.g. the claim that up to half the Board only wanted two Aus teams in Super Rugby while the rest were looking for as many as five. In my experience when NZR leaks it's usually because someone wants to know how something will be received by the the rugby community while retaining plausible deniability should that reaction be negative.

Edit: the better question imo is why has RA suddenly become a leak-free zone? As I'm sure someone once said, an empty bucket doesn't leak.

Wow. Look, RA deserve all the opprobrium they generate, but you are now looking for fire because there isn't any smoke?


My expectation is that the messy and bloody internecine war has dragged on so long there is nothing left. Hamish seems to have this. What is more impressive is that the State Unions seem to be aligned, I really did think that some of them would be talking directly with NZRU by now.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ no, I'm beginning to wonder if RA have an actual plan.

 

[KOB1987]

^ no, I'm beginning to wonder if RA have an actual plan.

According to the press this morning they have 3 plans. The preferred is a TT comp, but they want an equitable partnership in it, not participation in an All Blacks development program. The second option is domestic comp with another 2 or 3 teams added. Plan C is the ramp up the national club comp. I also saw Dave Wessells quoted in another article saying that the Aussie comp should strive to be the IPL of the rugby world. I guess that's not too dissimilar to McLennans BBL style comp.

It seems to me that RA are talking with NZR about getting option A off the ground but that they are hellbent on an inequitable partnership. Until Option A either gets sealed or canned I can't see the other 2 options gaining a lot of traction.

 

[hoggy]

According to the press this morning they have 3 plans. The preferred is a TT comp, but they want an equitable partnership in it, not participation in an All Blacks development program. The second option is domestic comp with another 2 or 3 teams added. Plan C is the ramp up the national club comp. I also saw Dave Wessells quoted in another article saying that the Aussie comp should strive to be the IPL of the rugby world. I guess that's not too dissimilar to McLennans BBL style comp.

It seems to me that RA are talking with NZR about getting option A off the ground but that they are hellbent on an inequitable partnership. Until Option A either gets sealed or canned I can't see the other 2 options gaining a lot of traction.

I think you mean NZR have a plan that suits them nicely, they are asking RA to sign up for something that has our interests on page 57 paragraph 10 of the agreement.

 

[dru]

New Kiwi proposed Super - Names for consideration

#AB development league
#Kiwis plus friends comp
#Shrink (Aus) to (Kiwi) greatness

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

According to the press this morning they have 3 plans. The preferred is a TT comp, but they want an equitable partnership in it, not participation in an All Blacks development program. The second option is domestic comp with another 2 or 3 teams added. Plan C is the ramp up the national club comp. I also saw Dave Wessells quoted in another article saying that the Aussie comp should strive to be the IPL of the rugby world. I guess that's not too dissimilar to McLennans BBL style comp.

It seems to me that RA are talking with NZR about getting option A off the ground but that they are hellbent on an inequitable partnership. Until Option A either gets sealed or canned I can't see the other 2 options gaining a lot of traction.

Very light on detail but at least it's progress.

 

[kiap]

Aus clubs are wanting a minimum of around 8 home games to be financially viable. 10-12 weeks would send the game even more broke than it currently is

What say only 4-5 of those guaranteed 8 home games were domestic opposition? Another 3-5 home games might be cross-border opposition, but in a different, international competition.

 

[Rebels3]

Why is the push back answer now, “but at least the kiwis are throwing up options”? Aus does have a plan it includes the 5 teams, they are also open to other options on the proviso it includes the 5 teams, it’s not that hard to see or understand. People (almost always kiwis) saying at least they are providing options is basically saying I have nothing else to argue about but I’ll provide this poor excuse as a reason to continue the good fight.

Wanting Aus to chop teams is like Aus wanting NZ to chop the NPC, because it gets in the way of Aus and NZ having a longer professional season that would make the super clubs more viable and provide the length of season that provides opportunities to the larger squad members. Now once they can understand how outraged they would be if Aus went openly to the media with such an option, then they can see the outrage from our end.

 

[hoggy]

You can't really blame NZ all of the option they propose fit neatly into there season, set-up and agenda.

The issue is were crazy to sign up-to to it. TT will do exactly what Super rugby has done for the game here for the last 20 years, ensures that it forever stays in a never ending state of no-mans land.

 

[Rebels3]

What say only 4-5 of those guaranteed 8 home games were domestic opposition? Another 3-5 home games might be cross-border opposition, but in a different, international competition.

That could work. They just need more games, I only know from a rebels perspective that a couple of years ago they were pushing for more games because they wanted to start taking the game to different areas, but the limited amount of games meant it was difficult to do because it would eat into the value of the memberships. If they had more games they could continue to provide 7/8 games in Melbourne and then strike up deals with local governments like they did with Ballarat this year but also places like Adelaide and Bendigo where the government’s would cover all the match day costs/promote the game locally etc.

If the Reds for instance had 10 games, they could play 8 out of Brisbane but the other 2 on the Gold Coast and Cairns. Getting good one off crowds with local or state government covering costs to fill stadiums and provide the local community with some entertainment.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

they are also open to other options on the proviso it includes the 5 teams, it’s not that hard to see or understand.

This is goign around in circles. NZRFU look like c**ts BUT theyre playing hardball cos Aus teams lose 76 million games in a row and Aus fans tune out en masse ergo no broadcasting deal. Only the 17 tragic diehards here at GAGR were left watching that shit in March 2020.

GAGR aussies say no, no, let us in, all 5 teams, banking on what, a sudden 5-team wide turnaround to competitiveness? Not just the BumBreeze?

Not a safe bet.

Sure, NZ participation numbers are plummetting but I'd still bank on them being able to find 100 murderous bastards to fill the rosters for the rest of our lifetimes. It's up to Aussie to lift to the standard and the last 5 years say "um, no". If 10 team comp is a go and the Aus spiral of losses continues and NZ broadcasting has a mass exodus of viewers like Aus then YOU'VE DRAGGED US CNUTS DOWN WITH YOU.

If you do get 5 teams you have to all PROMISE not to have one single whinge about the disastrous tv ratings when no one tunes in to see NSFW get a 112-pt shellacking from the beautiful, beautiful Auckland Blues Blitzkrieg Panzer Division Murder Machine

 

[sendit]

but if you go for fan engagement shorter and sharp is answer!

Are you able to go get a job at the NZRU? I'd love to just put the nail in the coffin for their downward spiral in management