Where to for Super Rugby?

[Adam84]

Have they now? What does either of those look like? Other than in general terms, of course, which anyone can do. Specifically, in other words.

So is it your suggestion that both organisations should be developing their own plans for a competition in isolation, with the intent to then dictate the terms of joining to the other organisation?

Do you not agree that it would be far better for both organisations to be planning and collaborating together for a competition given its expected they will both be major stakeholders?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

RA has laid out their vision and tried to engage NZ on the design of the competition, it suits no one for both organisations to be designing a competition in parallel, it should be done in collaboration.

If New Zealand were genuine and not purely focussed on their own self-interests, then any new competition would have been designed in collaboration with all relevant stakeholders having suitable opportunity to provide input. Rather, the terms and conditions have been dictated to those parties they want to join, and they're expected to suck it up.

If as an organisation you act like an arrogant assholes and try and dictate the terms of a relationship purely for you own personal gain at the expense of others, then expect the other party to be offended and look at alternative options.

Mate reality is NZRU has had fact NZ always played small cousin to Australia on world stage and fact NZRU and All Blacks are number one rugby nation/side in the world means they think they can bully Australia as the bigger cousin. They have been playing this stuff out for the last decade. Time to accept they will never change as current approach by NZRU shown and we just move on. Keep the relationship for a Champions League and Bledisloe where we have equal representation rights with other relevant stakeholders but don't try and organise Trans Tasman Competition with them as this will be just us joining a NZRU competition purely designed to be an "All Black Development League".

 

[Adam84]

^ how do you know they're consulting appropriate parties? Maybe they're not & that's why NZR are behaving the way they are, to force RA to actually say or do something that provides a starting point for further dialogue/ negotiation.

and, maybe nzru are behaving the way they are because their arrogant assholes who think they can dictate the terms to RA

 

[Adam84]

Mate reality is NZRU has had fact NZ always played small cousin to Australia on world stage and fact NZRU and All Blacks are number one rugby nation/side in the world means they think they can bully Australia as the bigger cousin. They have been playing this stuff out for the last decade. Time to accept they will never change as current approach by NZRU shown and we just move on. Keep the relationship for a Champions League and Bledisloe where we have equal representation rights with other relevant stakeholders but don't try and organise Trans Tasman Competition with them as this will be just us joining a NZRU competition purely designed to be an "All Black Development League".

yeah, hence why I think we should just say 'fuck them' and move on with plans for a domestic competition involving other parties like the Fijian Drua and Sunwolves. Throw open the doors to kiwi players and deck out the teams.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Or maybe NZR read GeoRob's recent SMH piece:

"The expression of interest I'm not interested in, and if they send it over I won't open it," RA chairman Hamish McLennan said.

"My preferred competition is trans-Tasman five and five..." McLennan said.

So maybe they're wondering which it is that McLennan actually wants? Or if whichever it is that he wants has the support of his Board. When things that should be getting sorted behind the scenes get into the public arena it's usually because one of the parties isn't engaging. RA is too busy trying to stitch together a broadcasting agreement and/ or a player's collective would be my guess.

 

[KOB1987]

NZR's current proposed competition structures, as per: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...rofessional-competition-replace-super-in-2021

2021 DRAFT COMPETITION STRUCTURE

B. 10 Teams

Play 4 teams twice, 5 teams once​

14-week regular season​

Semifinals + Final​

TOTAL GAMES: 68

There's also some other comments on NZ franchise licensing which, IIRC, was the original intent of the review. Also:

In the current Covid environment it has to be this one. Assuming RA accepts the offer to participate in the All Blacks development program, this option allows us to actually use it as a Wallabies development program. Each nation plays as they are now for 10 weeks, and then assuming Covid allows it, we can test each other against the other for the final 5 rounds. If not we can have a bye week and then each just play another round of our own comps and have our own finals series.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

This Thread Interpreted As Performance Art:​

​

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

In the current Covid environment it has to be this one. Assuming RA accepts the offer to participate in the All Blacks development program, this option allows us to actually use it as a Wallabies development program. Each nation plays as they are now for 10 weeks, and then assuming Covid allows it, we can test each other against the other for the final 5 rounds. If not we can have a bye week and then each just play another round of our own comps and have our own finals series.

If you're going to follow a similar model then we should get the Drua involved and NZ can have their PI squad for a total of 16 rounds. Or just go with a simple home and way season of 18 rounds.

 

[KOB1987]

If you're going to follow a similar model then we should get the Drua involved and NZ can have their PI squad for a total of 16 rounds. Or just go with a simple home and way season of 18 rounds.

that's not silly, would mean 3 games in each country each week instead of 2. Would need to start earlier to finish before the test window. No guarantees there will be inbound tests next year but they need to be allowed for.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

that's not silly, would mean 3 games in each country each week instead of 2. Would need to start earlier to finish before the test window. No guarantees there will be inbound tests next year but they need to be allowed for.

If they went with 10 teams across 18 rounds they could kick off on Feb 5 of next year and with the Test window moving back to July the could wrap it up with a week left in June.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

What I find really strange in all of this is that NZR, which has historically been a fairly tight-run ship, has been leaking all manner of quite specific material for several weeks now while nothing of substance is coming from RA, which has leaked like the proverbial for as long as I can remember.

 

[Dan54]

If they went with 10 teams across 18 rounds they could kick off on Feb 5 of next year and with the Test window moving back to July the could wrap it up with a week left in June.

Feb 5th??? Bloody hell man, why not just kick off on New Years day?

 

[Wilson]

What I find really strange in all of this is that NZR, which has historically been a fairly tight-run ship, has been leaking all manner of quite specific material for several weeks now while nothing of substance is coming from RA, which has leaked like the proverbial for as long as I can remember.

New Zealand seemed to start leaking late last year and then it spiked during COVID - Potential game with the Kangaroos, Aratipu review details, Competition structures and the way the board was leaning, Super Rugby Aotearoa plans, and various planned calls with international sides/orgs. I'm doubt they've all come from the NZRU, but some of them must have. I wonder if there is a bit of a power struggle behind the scenes with the change of administration?

 

[Muzza]

What I find really strange in all of this is that NZR, which has historically been a fairly tight-run ship, has been leaking all manner of quite specific material for several weeks now while nothing of substance is coming from RA, which has leaked like the proverbial for as long as I can remember.

I was thinking the same . Maybe RA ,seeing that this is their chance to finally get it right have said enoughs , enough . NZ actually all want different things which is why their leaking .

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

I doubt there's a power struggle as such but there's almost always been factions & I'd be surprised if that isn't still the case e.g. the claim that up to half the Board only wanted two Aus teams in Super Rugby while the rest were looking for as many as five. In my experience when NZR leaks it's usually because someone wants to know how something will be received by the the rugby community while retaining plausible deniability should that reaction be negative.

Edit: the better question imo is why has RA suddenly become a leak-free zone? As I'm sure someone once said, an empty bucket doesn't leak.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Feb 5th??? Bloody hell man, why not just kick off on New Years day?

Tell me. What was the date of Super Rugby kick off this season pre-Covid?

 

[Wilson]

I doubt there's a power struggle as such but there's almost always been factions & I'd be surprised if that isn't still the case e.g. the claim that up to half the Board only wanted two Aus teams in Super Rugby while the rest were looking for as many as five. In my experience when NZR leaks it's usually because someone wants to know how something will be received by the the rugby community while retaining plausible deniability should that reaction be negative.

Edit: the better question imo is why has RA suddenly become a leak-free zone? As I'm sure someone once said, an empty bucket doesn't leak.

Some of the leaks have certainly felt like that but I get the feeling they're not all pulling in the same direction anymore. I doubt the All Blacks coaching appointment was met with any grand consensus either, wouldn't be surprised if there are simmering tensions from that adding to it.

As far as RA goes, I think the shit fight around Raelene leaving and Peter Wiggs trying to stage his own coup cleaned them out and settled it all down.

For now.

 

[Dan54]

Tell me. What was the date of Super Rugby kick off this season pre-Covid?

It was miles to early!! Should never kick off until March!! See I a fan of whatever comp that comes along it should be shorter than 18 weeks, I know broadcasters may have a say that makes it longer, but if you go for fan engagement shorter and sharp is answer!

 

[Dan54]

Some of the leaks have certainly felt like that but I get the feeling they're not all pulling in the same direction anymore. I doubt the All Blacks coaching appointment was met with any grand consensus either, wouldn't be surprised if there are simmering tensions from that adding to it.
.

Think you will find the ABs coaching is pretty well agreed in by NZR, don't worry what you read no nothings say on Net forums.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It was miles to early!! Should never kick off until March!! See I a fan of whatever comp that comes along it should be shorter than 18 weeks, I know broadcasters may have a say that makes it longer, but if you go for fan engagement shorter and sharp is answer!

It kicked off mid Feb in 2019 and 2018. So Super Rugby has been kicking off 'early' for some time. You mustn't watch many sports league if 18 rounds is too long for you to be able to stay engaged.