Where to for Super Rugby?

[kiap]

Looking at the NZRU proposal, it could be interpreted as including the 5 NZ Super sides and the 4 Aus Super sides (not incl the Force ......

Absolutely, it can be interpreted that way.

NZR will take it if they can, because they can … unless RA get some unity and dare to say boo by, … y'know, … actually considering running a comp.

The 5 + Hawaii won't be enough, though. So, short of them getting Japan to pay billions of Yen for the privilege of getting smeshed, there's still room for Aus to negotiate say Champs Cups comps, etc.

IMO that would be good compromise outcome.

 

[sunnyboys]

Anyone else spot the detail that:
“ NZR said it hoped to complete the expression of interest process by the end of July.”

From Beth Newman article on Rugby AU site (almost last line of article)

 

[stoff]

It could still work out simple:

• Aotearoa (NZR-run 6+ teams): NZ x 5 + Hawaii

• Australia (RA-run 5+ teams): Au x 5 + potentially Fijian, others

Circa 10 games (5 home and 5 away) each + a few finals.


Is that enough matches (gate money, tv revenue), etc? Add on Heineken-style comps => another 6-8 or so games @ + SF+F.

8 home games was the magic number that used to get quoted as being the minimum to turn a profit.

The TT Cup tournament might need to be three groups of four to get another three home games each in a round robin, then top of each group, plus best of the rest, or top two plus two next best into a knock out round. This is all dependent upon AU and Aotearoa being six team comps. Maybe Japan gets invited to the cup comp - it would benefit the AU franchises who have been building links there. It also respects their comp.

The other question is what happens to the GRR franchises? Could they be some of the 'other' tenderers?

 

[Up the Guts]

Rugby AU must also urgently get legal advice on the ability of NZRU to individually invite teams, rather than have Rugby AU decide which teams it puts up into the competition. NZRU will try and play divide and conquer, telling QRU/NSWRU that they have a secure future under this deal. Surely the ARU has a way to block this?

Thankfully, I don’t think McLennan will be strong armed by NZRU. There’s a reason he’s known as the hammer.

 

[Dan54]

Geez what everyone is completely ignoring is no NZ teams are in it as yet, they are invited to put in expressions of interest too!!! I read it as making sure any team coming in is going to survive, both if finances aren't in order, or do you want to see another Force Fiasco. I bet RA can just say we guarantee our teams will be able to survive is the first step, and wouldn't mind betting it's also been talked about with RA, and they have got an excuse to cut a team, and blame NZ?? I said after hearing Twiggy the other night on TV I wouldn't bank on Rebels surviving, and Twiggy wants the Force players back!

 

[drewprint]

Huh? You’re saying that if the financial numbers don’t add up they will block one or more of the current NZ franchises from joining? Haha, c’mon.

 

[Dan54]

Rugby AU must also urgently get legal advice on the ability of NZRU to individually invite teams, rather than have Rugby AU decide which teams it puts up into the competition. NZRU will try and play divide and conquer, telling QRU/NSWRU that they have a secure future under this deal. Surely the ARU has a way to block this?

Um so we were all happy for the Saffa teams to be thrown out? I not sure I saw any posts thinking SA should get legal advice!!! I not sure what I like or don't like here but weren't we hearing whispers about 2 months ago of a comp from NZ with Force part pf it and a PI team? I will still wait to hear what RA's proposal for a comp is!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Reading the NZ announcement really boils down to message we are creating our own nz competition and happy to have expressions of interest for others to join if it suits NZ (read not region interests). I can’t help but think the only way forward is to just forget nz other then Bledisloe or champions league and get on and do our own thing. This is going to be a nz owned and run competition so oz or RA interests have no chance of being fairly represented over NZ interests.

I hope twiggy and Hamish somehow come to the same conclusion as they actually both need each other and together could find a better solution that meets both oz and regional interests.

I can’t see this ending well if we actually sign up to NZ’s competition with expressions of interest being reviewed by NZ. This is not master servant but master slave.

 

[Dan54]

We have one massive card to play, which is self destruction which would essentially be destruction of them as well. They have openly stated the 5 team comp isn't sustainable, so threaten to walk and let both parties rot. We have a hell of a lot less carcass to rot away at than they do. We have already almost bottomed out, lets see their stance if that is threatened.

That rates as one of the silliest posts I have ever read, anyone suggesting self destruction is the way to go for RA crazy!

 

[qwerty51]

The NZRU own the NZ franchises don’t they?

 

[wamberal]

That rates as one of the silliest posts I have ever read, anyone suggesting self destruction is the way to go for RA crazy!

Some would say that RA has done its best to self destruct.

 

[Dan54]

So long as NZRU run Aotearoa and RA run all the Aus sides. We cannot in good conscience allow another country to control the workings of rugby at this level in this country. Too much fertile territory for conflict of interest issues to arise which in all probability would be designed to enhance the ABs position in the world of rugby at the expense of the Wallabies.

Looking at the NZRU proposal, it could be interpreted as including the 5 NZ Super sides and the 4 Aus Super sides (not incl the Force which it could be said do not have Super status yet). The opening for another team to "apply" could be to cover the Force, so we end up with 5 + 5. But that will only work if both countries retain full and independent control of the game at all levels in the respective countries. That does not seem to be the case with the proposal floated by NZRU today.

I agree BR gee now where are all the posters who thought that NZ should have to release ABs to Aus teams and then still have to pick them, no other union can tell Australia or NZ etc how to run their players. I also bet this is not a NZRU run comp, but will set up company type system to run it!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The NZRU own the NZ franchises don’t they?

Fairly certain they are the majority shareholders but there are distinct ownership groups behind each franchise.

 

[Dan54]

The NZRU own the NZ franchises don’t they?

No they do not own the Franchises, it's like saying they control players, take the Canesthe Mighy Nua are a shareholder, same as Naki bought shares in Chiefs!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah that does not sound like a partnership to me.

Dictatorship actually as it is NZ who determines entry - quite amusing to go from SANZAAR to NZ dictatorship / own and control rugby in the region. I seriously wonder given GRR model how impressed twiggy would be by this and whether would equally be aghast joining a competition run only for what is in the best interests of NZ.

I pray twiggy and hamish have an alternative model that can be funded rather than accept Offer to join a completely owned and run NZ competition.

 

[Dan54]

Huh? You’re saying that if the financial numbers don’t add up they will block one or more of the current NZ franchises from joining? Haha, c’mon.

Yep, if they thought it would make it work I bet they would try! But they won't as they probably need/want all 5 in there. NZRU said at start of Covid shutdown they knew big changes had to be made and they and most of WR (World Rugby) would be pushing reset buttons, I imagine NOW maybe RA will give us their version and all will go from there!!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Geez what everyone is completely ignoring is no NZ teams are in it as yet, they are invited to put in expressions of interest too!!! I read it as making sure any team coming in is going to survive, both if finances aren't in order, or do you want to see another Force Fiasco. I bet RA can just say we guarantee our teams will be able to survive is the first step, and wouldn't mind betting it's also been talked about with RA, and they have got an excuse to cut a team, and blame NZ?? I said after hearing Twiggy the other night on TV I wouldn't bank on Rebels surviving, and Twiggy wants the Force players back!

Oh come on mate. You know that bullshit. NZR are the majority stakeholders in the respective franchises. They're setting up the competition. Of course they are already in. Christ, pretty sure they've even come out and said that the current 5 NZ squads will form the spine of it.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I doubt whether two country teams would really work as professional teams. They're either not going to have a true home or you'd be better off calling them Newcastle and Gold Coast (or Townsville or wherever you base the team).

But I really think it would be better to build cross town rivalries in Sydney and Brisbane before adding regional teams. South Brisbane vs North Brisbane, West Sydney vs North Sydney vs South East Sydney. That'd be the best way to build real tribalism quickly with new entities.

West Sydney - Cant see that one working. Lets play were the suppers live.

We have the country franchises ready to go. Plenty of good grounds to play at in the country.

Panthers come to Bathurst every year and pull around 13K to the ground. Its a once a year game and works a treat.

Cant see why Newcastle/Coffs/ Tamworth/ Arimidale/ Dubbo/Orange/Bathurst /Mudgee/Wollongong couldnt host matches on a 1 match annual basis.

We need to give this time to develop

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

The NZRU own the NZ franchises don’t they?

They have a controlling interest in all five. The 26 Provincial Unions each have a (in some cases nominal) share in the franchise who's catchment they're in & there's some private ownership of four: NZR bought out the Blues' private part-owner last year.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep, if they thought it would make it work I bet they would try! But they won't as they probably need/want all 5 in there.

You just liked my post about the NZRU being the majority shareholders in each franchise. And yet you're still arguing that they would for some weird reason beyond comprehension not include one of the 5 franchise they have direct interests in. Think about this.