Where to for Super Rugby?

[Derpus]

Hey kiwi it much to easy to just say hey they bullying us! I wouldn't mind betting that if they saying EOI, it is to make sure teams can afford to be in it and Force can join, if anyone remember RA kicked them out so they not really a Aus super team I supposing. I stand by what I said, I think it will be 9-10 team comp with 4 from Aus and maybe a PI one, which won't happen next tear, they couldn't raise a competitive team in the next couple of years! I repeat what is Aussies preferred comp?

I agree that they aren't necessarily bullying us - but they aren't being particularly friendly either.

 

[Rebels3]

We have one massive card to play, which is self destruction which would essentially be destruction of them as well. They have openly stated the 5 team comp isn't sustainable, so threaten to walk and let both parties rot. We have a hell of a lot less carcass to rot away at than they do. We have already almost bottomed out, lets see their stance if that is threatened.

 

[barbarian]

I'm just not sure why the NZRU need to be so combative about this. What do they stand to gain?

Surely they could achieve the same result with negotiation behind closed doors, which seems to be RA's tactic.

Maybe if they own the competition, they can push for a greater share of overseas TV revenue?

 

[hoggy]

We have one massive card to play, which is self destruction which would essentially be destruction of them as well. They have openly stated the 5 team comp isn't sustainable, so threaten to walk and let both parties rot. We have a hell of a lot less carcass to rot away at than they do. We have already almost bottomed out, lets see their stance if that is threatened.

So its TT or self destruction.

 

[Bandar]

I hope to see an seven team comp in Australia next year (Covid permitting). The current 5, along with Western Sydney and Fiji Drua. Allow another year or two do get a second QLD team.

Start working on the private investment required for Western Sydney now - maybe talk to Adam Gilchrist or the Hawaiian guys (Ex All Blacks) looking to get into another comp with an Islander based team in Western Sydney.

We are either in a partnership or not - the Australian Rugby community cannot afford to lose another team.

Both the expansion teams have started to produce home grown talent - much more so than their NRL equivalents. we need them all in.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah im not on board with TT if it means losing a team. Presumably, though, they mean the 4 that are actually in Super Rugby and not the Force.

Maybe because Twiggy isnt interested in a comp model with multiple management bodies they assume he won't want in.

 

[drewprint]

I think this finally forces our hand. I’ve been unsure this whole time about what the best model looks like but the bullish attitude of NZ has kind of decided it. I don’t want a couple of our teams granted the wonderful privilege of joining their competition. I wanted an equal competition where all parties had their fair place at the table. Hamish ended up nailing it - the master-servant dynamic is in full force. Let Hansen, Foster and co continue with their pot shots. Fuck ‘em. I don’t know how, but somehow, we need to do our own thing.

 

[sunnyboys]

Hmm so potentially a kiwi owned comp - do they take over broadcast negotiations in Oz? Set the salary cap in Oz via tv money distribution...

Interesting wording coming out of NZ - certainly doesn’t look like they are seeking an equal commercial partner in this new comp.

 

[qwerty51]

I'm totally on board with sacrificing our game here if it means they are fucked too. Sounds petty but it's an all in or no one attitude needed, we can't compromise here and have to get it right. Let them come back on our terms in a couple years.

 

[kiap]

It could still work out simple:

• Aotearoa (NZR-run 6+ teams): NZ x 5 + Hawaii

• Australia (RA-run 5+ teams): Au x 5 + potentially Fijian, others

Circa 10 games (5 home and 5 away) each + a few finals.

Is that enough matches (gate money, tv revenue), etc? Add on Heineken-style comps => another 6-8 or so games @ + SF+F.

 

[KiwiM]

Yeah im not on board with TT if it means losing a team. Presumably, though, they mean the 4 that are actually in Super Rugby and not the Force.

Maybe because Twiggy isnt interested in a comp model with multiple management bodies they assume he won't want in.

Actually the Force seem to be well in their thinking - see below

"As well, we will also be working with Rugby Australia to seek expressions of interest from their current Super clubs and other interested parties to join the competition and that work will begin in earnest. We are excited and interested to see what our Australian neighbours will bring to this competition,"

 

[Derpus]

Ah so it's more of a 'cut melbourne but we'll take your rich bloke, cheers'?

 

[kiap]

Ah so it's more of a 'cut melbourne but we'll take your rich bloke, cheers'?

It should be "bring a date, with plate". Where's KiwiM's rich mate?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Here on page 848, we have 152 pages till this threads cracks the 1,000. Will it make it?

152 pages ago was Dec 2019 in this thread.

8 months ago.

8 months from now is Mar 2021. Usually kick-off time for the new season of Super OH SHIT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT

 

[barbarian]

I understand the 'let it burn' mentality, but it's just one press release. Plenty more to run here, and I'd hope there is discussion behind closed doors where a compromise might be reached.

However, if you said to me we end up with a TT comp with four teams (so we lose Rebs or Force) then I hold my nose and sign the deal. Four teams is about right for our depth, and we get the comp we've been dreaming of for the last decade.

So we lose the battle, but hope we win the war.

 

[Dctarget]

Let's get some relegation/promotion going. That will tune people in. 2nd half of the season sucks for teams not doing well.

 

[kiap]

OH SHIT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE IT

Post more. I'm doing my bit.

I hold my nose and sign the deal.

Cameron Clyne in disguise?

 

[Set piece magic]

I'm just not sure why the NZRU need to be so combative about this. What do they stand to gain?



Surely they could achieve the same result with negotiation behind closed doors, which seems to be RA's tactic.



Maybe if they own the competition, they can push for a greater share of overseas TV revenue?

Strong agree on this. I think ultimately, they play hardball and concede entry to Australian teams but say because we've done that we get more revenue in return.

Australia should just tell them to stick it. Aus should say we are openly disinterested in 'joining' super rugby auterea, and want to get back to square one where both parties actually design the competition. No organisation with a cent of credibility would go along with the negotiation strategy of the NZRU, it's terms are worse than versailles.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It could still work out simple:

• Aotearoa (NZR-run 6+ teams): NZ x 5 + Hawaii

• Australia (RA-run 5+ teams): Au x 5 + potentially Fijian, others

Circa 10 games (5 home and 5 away) each + a few finals.


Is that enough matches (gate money, tv revenue), etc? Add on Heineken-style comps => another 6-8 or so games @ + SF+F.

So long as NZRU run Aotearoa and RA run all the Aus sides. We cannot in good conscience allow another country to control the workings of rugby at this level in this country. Too much fertile territory for conflict of interest issues to arise which in all probability would be designed to enhance the ABs position in the world of rugby at the expense of the Wallabies.

Looking at the NZRU proposal, it could be interpreted as including the 5 NZ Super sides and the 4 Aus Super sides (not incl the Force which it could be said do not have Super status yet). The opening for another team to "apply" could be to cover the Force, so we end up with 5 + 5. But that will only work if both countries retain full and independent control of the game at all levels in the respective countries. That does not seem to be the case with the proposal floated by NZRU today.

If NZRU insist on having the power to include (which would then include the power to exclude) teams from this or any other country in their condescending little competition, then we must stay well away.

 

[Set piece magic]

Rugby AU must also urgently get legal advice on the ability of NZRU to individually invite teams, rather than have Rugby AU decide which teams it puts up into the competition. NZRU will try and play divide and conquer, telling QRU/NSWRU that they have a secure future under this deal. Surely the ARU has a way to block this?