Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

I was more than happy with what I watched. Was expecting a flogging and really the Tahs should have won it.

It was a great game.

Don't care what was going on in some foreign country southeast of where I come from. Didn't watch it, don't think I am alone

Really HB and Rugby Nutter? hell I a kiwi, but watch rugby from all around the world, always have always will. I think I am called a rugby nutter by a lot of people ( and mainly my missus), but perhaps I should point out some it seems nutters are only interested in local stuff !

 

[Dan54]

But I do agree it not much point comparing 2 different comps from different countries, I think these Aus derbies will be pretty good once players get going again, rugby is a game which takes a bit of getting up to speed on after a break! I went last night to game and will probably go to more and will be watching and enjoying both games tonight!! And agree with TOD , I look forward in future to having a good quality comp with however many teams are in it from Aus and NZ, rugby is an international games so I want to see teams from wherever playing each other!

 

[KOB1987]

Not saying it's not legit, it's good to have it back. But surely if there's the opportunity to do so in the future it's better to watch a higher quality ~ten team comp with the NZ sides than either a five team comp with only local sides or the NRC.

And yes, it goes without saying that exposing players to quality opposition is not the only thing necessary to develop quality test teams. But it surely must be better than being in a narrow or diluted talent pool.

Similarly, the players in the 1984-1994 era are now fathers and grandfathers. Back in the days of amateurism and 'shamateurism', test teams weren't allowed to assemble, players largely played and trained at their local clubs after work. Just so happened that two clubs in particular (one in Brisbane, one in Sydney) had a wealth of playing and coaching talent. Totally different world now. Having said that, Qld and NSW still played in the amateur Super comps in the late 80s and early 90s.

Sure, and my preference is for TT comp, but I don't think we need to be comparing ourselves with them as a measure of our success. It's no secret that rugby is the number one sport in NZ whereas we have to compete with League and AFL for players. The big difference between rugby capabilities of the 2 nations is depth, in an average year there really isn't much between the top 15 players from each, but NZ have always had their nose slightly in front, it's the players beneath these where the big difference lies.

 

[Dan54]

Part of the reason why I would prefer the one off Bledisloe as opposed to the current 3.

Would love it to be back to 1 test for Bledisloe, I think 3 games is too much, but understand the need for $s by the unions to play more. The unfortunate thin is Nations rely on test rugby for the majority of their income, we mightn't like it but it a fact, and the bottom line is RA (like any nation) gets a lot more $s out of an AB test than any other so they try to have more. The old problem we all need money but we don't want to go through the process to get it. We have to make Aus rugby attractive enough to earn good coin from TV and gate takings without playing kiwi teams seems to be the theme.

 

[Dan54]

Sure, and my preference is for TT comp, but I don't think we need to be comparing ourselves with them as a measure of our success. It's no secret that rugby is the number one sport in NZ whereas we have to compete with League and AFL for players. The big difference between rugby capabilities of the 2 nations is depth, in an average year there really isn't much between the top 15 players from each, but NZ have always had their nose slightly in front, it's the players beneath these where the big difference lies.

While I agree with you about competing for players with AFL, it is huge furphy to say NZ doesn't have and hasn't always had the competition from League for players, when we talk of top players, Aus and NZ league scouts have been at every major junior union tournament for years, I don't watch league, but from what people say there an awful lot a kiwis playing in all the league teams, seems if I see a Bronco being interviewed on the local news they seem to very often speak with kiwi accents? I was reading sometime ago the number of 1st xv players in NZ contracted to league, can't remember the numbers but it blew my mind!

 

[KOB1987]

Sure, they would be nothing like ours though, on a relative basis.

 

[Dan54]

Sure, they would be nothing like ours though, on a relative basis.

No not as many, but I can assure you they go for the very best NZ players just like they do Aus players, NZRU and they offer them money at a younger age than they can get it in NZ rugby, I just saying that it a furphy to not assume that league doesn't try and contract as many top NZ young players, just NZRU is maybe better at showing them a better pathway? I just think it used as an excuse to often, ahh NZ doesn't have competition from league like us, and that rugby is No1 sport in NZ, you wanna know something it doesn't actually happen automatically, the NZRU work almost as hard as AFL does here in Aus to make the game accessible and attractive to young fellas! Sometimes I think we use it as 'get out of jail card' to bloody often here!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes Dan the majority of population interested in local stuff (ie teams based in countries of interest) where seriously rusted on and expats for sure will be interested in non local derbies (ie nz sides playing their own local derbies) but that does not sell product to local markets as major revenue generator...hence why rugby dire as got back to small fan base (too heavily reliant on expat kiwi's etc) after large amount of fans deserted super rugby and wallabies over last 4-5 years.

To my mind if they did a trans tasman competition where talent flowed more between countries playing in it I might then get interested in other games not involving local teams but would still have to have enough local content (ie teams that play out of Australia but don't necessarily have to be teams with all australian players in them - think EPL). But moreso would be more interested as would allow for teams to be more evenly balanced as could actually invest in players from other countries knowing they won't be motivated to jump ship to go back to home country to be eligible for national team selection.

I just don't get this constant reference to us having to play NZ teams to enjoy good rugby as Japanese League and English and French pro comp's which are below super rugby standard certainly disprove that in level of fan support they enjoy as sure has to be a reasonable standard but I would argue the standard reasonable enough in quality compared to other major pro competitions and more about seeing evenly balanced games with enough local content (read teams playing out of Australia).

NZ super rugby teams are the best pro teams in the world and unless we do something to even up the barometer it just does not make sense to have a competition with NZ where we either can't provide enough teams to make up good local content. I just don't understand why broadcasters don't push this change (ie have a trans tasman competition with open borders policy to enable more even distribution of talent and placement of teams in markets with solid basis for growth where can provide more ready access to talent to attract eyeballs.

Twiggy got this which is why with Rapid Rugby was pushing for oz players playing for any team in rapid rugby to be eligible for Wallabies.

Otherwise yes I would rather watch a smaller domestic competition with semi pro's if can't have the above.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Really HB and Rugby Nutter? hell I a kiwi, but watch rugby from all around the world, always have always will. I think I am called a rugby nutter by a lot of people ( and mainly my missus), but perhaps I should point out some it seems nutters are only interested in local stuff !

Well Yes, really. Of course if there is an Aus side involved then I would watch.

But time is a premium, and Mrs Badger gets a little agitated when I spend the whole weekend watching random Rugby games. So I pick the ones that matter.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Enjoyed it, but I had skin in the game.

The Reds left a lot of points on the park.

I trust your skin played well.

and yes they did.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes Dan the majority of population interested in local stuff (ie teams based in countries of interest) where seriously rusted on and expats for sure will be interested in non local derbies (ie nz sides playing their own local derbies) but that does not sell product to local markets as major revenue generator.hence why rugby dire as got back to small fan base (too heavily reliant on expat kiwi's etc) after large amount of fans deserted super rugby and wallabies over last 4-5 years.

To my mind if they did a trans tasman competition where talent flowed more between countries playing in it I might then get interested in other games not involving local teams but would still have to have enough local content (ie teams that play out of Australia but don't necessarily have to be teams with all australian players in them - think EPL). But moreso would be more interested as would allow for teams to be more evenly balanced as could actually invest in players from other countries knowing they won't be motivated to jump ship to go back to home country to be eligible for national team selection.

I just don't get this constant reference to us having to play NZ teams to enjoy good rugby as Japanese League and English and French pro comp's which are below super rugby standard certainly disprove that in level of fan support they enjoy as sure has to be a reasonable standard but I would argue the standard reasonable enough in quality compared to other major pro competitions and more about seeing evenly balanced games with enough local content (read teams playing out of Australia).

NZ super rugby teams are the best pro teams in the world and unless we do something to even up the barometer it just does not make sense to have a competition with NZ where we either can't provide enough teams to make up good local content. I just don't understand why broadcasters don't push this change (ie have a trans tasman competition with open borders policy to enable more even distribution of talent and placement of teams in markets with solid basis for growth where can provide more ready access to talent to attract eyeballs.

Twiggy got this which is why with Rapid Rugby was pushing for oz players playing for any team in rapid rugby to be eligible for Wallabies.

Otherwise yes I would rather watch a smaller domestic competition with semi pro's if can't have the above.

In a perfect world all of the available talent including those from the PIs and they would be distributed among 10-12 teams across both countries. But that would require a complete rethink of how the competition is run.

 

[Dan54]

Well Yes, really. Of course if there is an Aus side involved then I would watch.

But time is a premium, and Mrs Badger gets a little agitated when I spend the whole weekend watching random Rugby games. So I pick the ones that matter.

Haha yep, that's bad educating of your missus mate, I mean there have only been 2 NZ games a weekend and no Aus games the last few weeks, and you said you weren't interested in watching them? I understand not everyone like me I went to Reds last night watched the Crusaders/clan game before halfway through the Brumbies/Rebels now, got the Canes Chiefs tomorrow. And I try and watch games from anywhere, but I admit to being a tragic! You have missed some cracker games the last few weeks not watching the NZ games I think.
Though I really understood what you were getting at earlier on mate and I just taking the piss a bit, you were annoyed at the comparisons , as I tend to be too!

 

[Dan54]

Yes Dan the majority of population interested in local stuff (ie teams based in countries of interest) where seriously rusted on and expats for sure will be interested in non local derbies (ie nz sides playing their own local derbies) but that does not sell product to local markets as major revenue generator.hence why rugby dire as got back to small fan base (too heavily reliant on expat kiwi's etc) after large amount of fans deserted super rugby and wallabies over last 4-5 years.

To my mind if they did a trans tasman competition where talent flowed more between countries playing in it I might then get interested in other games not involving local teams but would still have to have enough local content (ie teams that play out of Australia but don't necessarily have to be teams with all australian players in them - think EPL). But moreso would be more interested as would allow for teams to be more evenly balanced as could actually invest in players from other countries knowing they won't be motivated to jump ship to go back to home country to be eligible for national team selection.

I just don't get this constant reference to us having to play NZ teams to enjoy good rugby as Japanese League and English and French pro comp's which are below super rugby standard certainly disprove that in level of fan support they enjoy as sure has to be a reasonable standard but I would argue the standard reasonable enough in quality compared to other major pro competitions and more about seeing evenly balanced games with enough local content (read teams playing out of Australia).

NZ super rugby teams are the best pro teams in the world and unless we do something to even up the barometer it just does not make sense to have a competition with NZ where we either can't provide enough teams to make up good local content. I just don't understand why broadcasters don't push this change (ie have a trans tasman competition with open borders policy to enable more even distribution of talent and placement of teams in markets with solid basis for growth where can provide more ready access to talent to attract eyeballs.

Twiggy got this which is why with Rapid Rugby was pushing for oz players playing for any team in rapid rugby to be eligible for Wallabies.

Otherwise yes I would rather watch a smaller domestic competition with semi pro's if can't have the above.

As I said above mate, I don't get the trying to compare comps, I think Aus teams should play others not to see good rugby, but to improve the standard of rugby. I was just answering HBs comment he didn't watch rugby from NZ because if it not between 2 Aus teams he has no interest, mustn't have watched many WC games. But as you were I know not everyone like me and watch rugby from anywhere, and most of my mates. By the way you missed a cracker game earlier tonight!

 

[KOB1987]

So I made a mention of this on the match thread, but the new Rebels strip looks suspiciously like a hybrid Force strip - what are the chances that Twiggy gobbles up the Rebels to bring us back to 4 teams?

 

[The Honey Badger]

Hope Not.

If its TT we need all 5 with some way to even out the talent. And that probably means NZ eligible All Blacks playing in Aus teams and vice versa.

Otherwise its a NRC and the Rebels are definitely one of the teams.

 

[hoggy]

As I said above mate, I don't get the trying to compare comps, I think Aus teams should play others not to see good rugby, but to improve the standard of rugby. I was just answering HBs comment he didn't watch rugby from NZ because if it not between 2 Aus teams he has no interest, mustn't have watched many WC games. But as you were I know not everyone like me and watch rugby from anywhere, and most of my mates. By the way you missed a cracker game earlier tonight!

Yes, because 20 years of super rugby really improved Aussie rugby

 

[Slim 293]

Yes, because 20 years of super rugby really improved Aussie rugby

Super Rugby is now responsible for the state of Australian rugby?

 

[qwerty51]

Partly

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Yes, because 20 years of super rugby really improved Aussie rugby

Super Rugby helped us win the first professional world cup, and gave us our most successful province.

It also meant people like me could go and watch guys like Cullen, Lomu, Matfield, and Carter as well as Gregan, Horan, and Pocock.

I just don't get this whole push to involute to a domestic comp.

 

[qwerty51]

Only one of those players wouldn't be in a Trans-Tasman comp..