Where to for Super Rugby?

[sunnyboys]

I’ll just at this point of the discussion add that Reds v Tahs pulled only 69000 viewers.

For broadcast revenue purposes that isn’t a sustainable number

 

[Rugbynutter39]

To go off on a tangent to what Wamberal was saying, Super Rugby was so good at filling the SFS, Ballymore, and Bruce Stadium. Eight or nine years ago I could only get tickets up in the gods to watch the Reds at Lang Park when I was visiting Brisbane. The advantage union had over loig and aerial ping pong was that it was an international game (and soccer was a basket case for a long time. Still kind of is.). The Wallabies were a team that Australia got behind, and it was us against the world.

I 100% agree that Super Rugby had major structural issues. But I don't think 'lack of local content' was the overwhelming one. When crowds and TV viewership really started to tank was in the last 7-8 seasons, not long after the conference system was introduced and local derbies were doubled.

The biggest structural problems were that the conferences were hard to follow, rewarded the least mediocre teams in mediocre pools, and gave us too many meaningless games. Add that to sustained mediocre performances from our teams which further ingrained the inclination of the punters to no longer give a fuck.

Streamlining the structure of Super Rugby (round robin, trans-tasman, fewer games with higher stakes?) would be great, but with everything else going on, including COVID, competition from other codes, people having less leisure time and chosing it to not watch sport, and changing demographics, it feels like the horse has well and truly bolted.

And back to the top paragraph, I think going to a domestic only comp full time solves a lesser problem and removes a major advantage.

Lack of local content was not the problem with super rugby 8 years ago but with expanded markets of nrl and afl and more local content and diluted local content with super rugby expansion (read less local time friendly games) has made this very much the issue

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I’ll just at this point of the discussion add that Reds v Tahs pulled only 69000 viewers.

For broadcast revenue purposes that isn’t a sustainable number

Numbers were similar to what were getting in super rugby though and first game but yeh would want to grow viewer numbers but can you do that whilst only accessible via pay tv?

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Then what do you think the answer is then if Domestic does not solve the issue's and Super rugby is Structurally too flawed to fix.

The structure can be changed, but I suspect SANZAAR picked a bad time to bloat the competition, especially from Australia's point of view (bear in mind that NZ also has challenges).

As I said though, I would have thought the best structural solution would be to simplify the comp (such as going back to round robin or similar), and if SA get too good a deal to switch seasons rather than time zones (i.e. Europe) then go trans-Tasman +/- Jaguares.

I guess I'm pessimistic insofar that Im unsure that taking the 'Coke Classic' approach will be enough.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Lack of local content was not the problem with super rugby 8 years ago but with expanded markets of nrl and afl and more local content and diluted local content with super rugby expansion (read less local time friendly games) has made this very much the issue

But it wasn't diluted. There were more home games and more games in local-ish time zones (more local derbies, remember). If anything, the Jaguares were the team really up against it in that regard, playing their 'derby' away fixtures at GMT+2.

 

[kiap]

Tell me all about the Brumbies etc pre super days!

Can do. I'm guessing you are over 50 and may have even watched some rugby in the 1970s. I can't claim to have seen that but I am also presuming you weren't in Australia at that time, so it's a somewhat level field.

Changes were afoot in that era. The ACT beat a few national teams, including the reigning Five Nations champions. Also matching/beating Qld (who were also on the way up, emulating some of the Welsh-inspired coaching innovations of the time).

So in 1982, the Wallabies lost the deciding third match of their 3-test NZ tour at Eden Park and turned over the Bled. But they had held it twice, and had still won 5 tests to 3 in a sequence of 8.

Pre soup.

Well tell me who was playing pre NZ teams coming to play? I wasn't suggesting that was answer, I saying that what was happening before Aus rugby teams playing NZ teams and when the question what has Super rugby done for Aus rugby?

NZ is very important (past, present, future) in the Oz rugby story. That's not the same thing as being locked in to Dan54's preferred format though.

I want to be seeing plenty of Trans-Tasman competition, but I think that won't be enough of the answer.

BTW, Super Rugby, while initially successful, was a disaster in the making for nigh on a decade.

 

[qwerty51]

No point blaming Kearns, he's not the main caller. It's all on Clarkie to make the game more appealing.

 

[RedsHappy]

I’ll just at this point of the discussion add that Reds v Tahs pulled only 69000 viewers.

For broadcast revenue purposes that isn’t a sustainable number

Game 2 Brumbies v Rebels on Foxtel: 49,000

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I’ll just at this point of the discussion add that Reds v Tahs pulled only 69000 viewers.

For broadcast revenue purposes that isn’t a sustainable number

The A-League got $37m for the upcoming season with an average of less than a 1/4 of those figures.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

No point blaming Kearns, he's not the main caller. It's all on Clarkie to make the game more appealing.

Sweet, so we can ask Clarkie to turf Kearns, yeah?

 

[half]

This is post 16572

We approach one million views,.

Within the next say 15 posts, guess the post that will have the one million view point.

My guess is 16, 723.

The closet post wins hhhmm eeerrrrr aarrrr forum status for a day.

 

[Dan54]

Can do. I'm guessing you are over 50 and may have even watched some rugby in the 1970s. I can't claim to have seen that but I am also presuming you weren't in Australia at that time, so it's a somewhat level field.

Changes were afoot in that era. The ACT beat a few national teams, including the reigning Five Nations champions. Also matching/beating Qld (who were also on the way up, emulating some of the Welsh-inspired coaching innovations of the time).

So in 1982, the Wallabies lost the deciding third match of their 3-test NZ tour at Eden Park and turned over the Bled. But they had held it twice, and had still won 5 tests to 3 in a sequence of 8.

Pre soup.



NZ is very important (past, present, future) in the Oz rugby story. That's not the same thing as being locked in to Dan54's preferred format though.

I want to be seeing plenty of Trans-Tasman competition, but I think that won't be enough of the answer.

BTW, Super Rugby, while initially successful, was a disaster in the making for nigh on a decade.

Hell I glad I have got a preferred format, as I the first to admit it has changed and I am happy to accept a TT format. I know mine tends to be realistic though and we not going to see NZRU paying ABs to play in Aus comp or vice versa, and I also very confident that both the NZRU and RA know what is required and are working as best they can to get good outcome as possible for both, as both want the other to be successful and anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy.
TT comp is not the only answer to Aussie's rugby problems, but sure as buggery without it I believe the problems will be a sight bigger!
As for 82 Wallabies I was at Palmerston North and watched them play, and I know what happened with ACT in 70s, when they beat a team from the 5 nations winning country, and surprising people, hell in the 70s The Mighty Nua knocked over Tonga, one of surprise results mean nothing really because in those days midweek touring teams could be very average and not bear any resemblance to a test team! All I was trying to point out that before NZ and Australian teams played each other Aus rugby was a lot poorer in quality than it is now , and that not because NZ is great or anything, but simply your states were not playing enough good quality teams, hell the same could of been said if you had started playing anyone else on a more regular basis. I think f anyone took notice of results and how Brumbies were going early in season and looked at young fellas in reds and Tahs, Aus teams don't need to buy in NZ players maybe get one or 2 from around world because I don't think they far off the pace at all regardless of what the wailers say!

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^Although one of the many issues with TT is that under the SANZAR joint venture agreement two of the partners can't exclude the third from a competition. It's either domestic or all 3 have the right to join.

EDIT: And I agree with your points about games between NZ and Aust teams make both better. The question is whether that't best achieved with domestic followed by champions league or an Super Rugby type competition.

 

[kiap]

Hell I glad I have got a preferred format, as I the first to admit it has changed and I am happy to accept a TT format.

All good, mate.

before NZ and Australian teams played each other Aus rugby was a lot poorer in quality than it is now

I'd say, after the quarter century span of Soup, that Aus rugby is in close to the worst shape it has been for 40 years. The game hasn't been steered well.

Whatever path is wanted, just rolling out familiar formulas won't be enough. A step change is happening, like it or not.

 

[Dan54]

Which is why Dan54

Your view is biased by being an expat nz and hard core rugby man who thinks competing in a trans tasman competition with nz with only 4 local based oz team involved will create a viable future pro rugby for oz. stats and history tells you it won’t and this may benefit nz and protecting their all blacks brand but will do nothing to move rugby forward in Australia. We need a better solution then only ever having 4 oz local teams to follow in a crowded oz sports market where nrl and afl offer way more regular and easily accessible local content.

I am glad RN you are able to tell me why I got my views, but all good you probably right about the fact I am a hard core rugby man who wants Aus rugby to succeed. Look the honest truth is I know many think I want NZ to be part of a comp because I a kiwi, but I will be disappointed if I still here next rugby season, but regardless I want what I believe is good for rugby here. I like to think since I been here I put a bit into rugby through coaching/administration etc (only at club leve) and really want to see the game strong in the country!

 

[hoggy]

This is post 16572

We approach one million views,.

Within the next say 15 posts, guess the post that will have the one million view point.

My guess is 16, 723.

The closet post wins hhhmm eeerrrrr aarrrr forum status for a day.

Mate we need a trophy

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With the Japanese Pro League set to start in January 2022 there will be serious questions needing answered about player retention. Which I have been thinking a little about. The solution that comes up in my mind is dual contracting between Aus/NZ franchises and Japanese clubs alongside a shift in season for a TT competition from Jan-June to late Aug-November with the goal of having 11 or 12 teams playing a single round robin for 10/11 games plus finals.

 

[Rebels3]

With the Japanese Pro League set to start in January 2022 there will be serious questions needing answered about player retention. Which I have been thinking a little about. The solution that comes up in my mind is dual contracting between Aus/NZ franchises and Japanese clubs alongside a shift in season for a TT competition from Jan-June to late Aug-November with the goal of having 11 or 12 teams playing a single round robin for 10/11 games plus finals.

The head of the NZRU said last week the short tournament isn’t sustainable. Our clubs have said recently that the reduction in games isn’t sustainable. I think we need something that offers a minimum of 16-20games

 

[Rebels3]

Lack of local content was not the problem with super rugby 8 years ago but with expanded markets of nrl and afl and more local content and diluted local content with super rugby expansion (read less local time friendly games) has made this very much the issue

Yep plus it coincided the explosion of social media (Instagram, Twitter, etc.) the other leagues have so much content and such a large presence in these platforms plus traditional media, we are now drowned out. AFL/NRL have now gone the way of football in Europe that it’s all encompassing that now instead of something to follow on the weekend it’s now a way of life. Been engaged with the club/league and given information is a 24/7 cycle.

 

[RebelYell]

The constant challenge is that our clubs need a minimum of 8 home games to be commercially viable, if not 10, yet we have a maximum window of 22 weeks in which to really play any competition. Any premier competition occurring at the same time as Test footy, and as a result robbing us of our best players' availability, will not work