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Where to for Super Rugby?

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NTT

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My original posts were designed to give some context to posters who talked about the Rebels being funded $6m for five years without recognising the other franchises were being funded significantly more. As you point out I recognise the challenges for the Rebels in the near and longer term.

The gate takings argument you mention applies differently to each team each year. 12 months ago the Rebels and Force position were polar opposite to today in terms of performance. It will change again.

I agree with you that the Rebels have moved themselves into a stronger position when dealing with the potential of a team being cut by a cash strapped ARU. I think Melbourne has more upside than Perth with a pipeline of Wallaby production prior to super rugby and increasingly strong junior sides. The Force have really reaped the benefit of the WA production line over the past couple of years.



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I have looked through every article i can find on the Rebels sale. Your point that the the Rebels get $6million and the other franchises get significantly more does not line up. The only thing i could find is that each club receives $6million up from $4.5 million when the broad cast agreement was boosted.

While the Rebels might receive an additional $900,000 from the ARU in the initial year of the arrangement, the deal peters out so dramatically that in year five, the Melbourne club will receive only ...

This is a snippet from a paywalled article from the Australian dated April 1 2016 titled ARU funds new Rebels owner to stay afloat.


Then theres this article confirming the Rebels will receive an additional $6 million over the 1st 5 years of the private ownership deal.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2016/04/01/Franchises/Melbourne-Rebels.aspx

So the real figure is the Rebels will receive $12 million in support while the other franchises receive $6 million from the broadcast deal.
 
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NTT

Guest
Adding spice to the focus on Western Force’s problems is the resentment among supporters over a perceived lack of support for the club from the ARU, particularly given that the body has pumped as much as $13 million into the Melbourne expansion club, the privately owned Rebels.
“The ARU are myopic and misguided in their lack of development funding,” Mr Welborn said.
And, notwithstanding the Rebels, “it’s really been driven by the interest groups which drive board decisions, which have been focused around NSW and NSW rugby”.

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/rugby-franchise-far-from-a-financial-force-ng-ya-102888


Another article highlighting the difference in financial support by the ARU towards Melbourne over Perth
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
IMO, in the majority of posts in this thread and within the intense concerns over cuts to the number of Australian Super teams, two fundamental realities are not revealed and debated enough, namely:

One, whatever we may think, the truth inside the ARU's head is a rapidly mounting fear that virtually every Australian Super franchise is now headed into financial and commercially dangerous places whereby their core sustainability will be threatened without either (a) radical new external financings from say 'private equity' and/or (b) more likely, directly and significantly increased cash funding from the ARU.

There is not one financially and commercially healthy Australian State RU in existence today. All are experienced falling Super crowds and, generally, falling TV viewership levels (see Two below btw, it's related to One). The Rebels are still utterly dependant upon ARU cash subsidies and Blind Freddy can see that when they stop, with Rebels crowds numbers at c.9k-11k levels, the Rebels will face severe cash flow and core viability challenges even with private owners (and further the ARU seems to have guaranteed many Rebels obligations in the event of a collapse of the Rebels business, and this is another serious event-contingent issue for the ARU to contemplate).

The deterioration all our Super franchises in parallel - vs the historical situation where the individual RU crises and bail-outs were more or less isolated - is the core reason the ARU is highly pre-disposed to structurally reducing its obvious 'lender of last resort' exposure and the emerging real risk of an ARU bankruptcy - should all these trends not be corrected, and there is zero evidence they are being - in c. 2019-20. This essential reduction commends to the ARU the option of cutting one or more Super franchises to reduce the whole-of-system risk that the ARU clearly now sees on its immediate horizon. This factor is just as much a reason for the ARU to potentially want to cut (say) the Force as is the additional disaster they actively helped incept with the arrival of the strategically idiotic S18 format.

This existential problem is almost entirely of the ARU's own design and making - I have been predicting and saying this here since c. 2010. However, that statement does not obviate as consequence the financial hard facts and very worrying related exposures as they are now being realised in St Leonards.

The ARU's forward-looking risk situation is demonstrably perilous and they know that they must reduce their core forward funding exposure as they cannot conceivably fund a scenario where in say 2018 some time the State RUs need (incremental to normal grants) a total annual funding of say $8-10m in new raw cash support. The ARU simply does not credibly have those resources and it is further aware that Wallaby gate income is declining markedly in parallel with all the Super income declines, all of which materially increases the ARU's inherent risk profile to now genuinely dangerous levels.

Two, and this can be quickly summarised: the central problem with Super Rugby in this country today is categorically not one of the S18 format and all the endless variations touted here as proposed fixes for it all of which involve principally format and structural changes and not genuinely radical qualitative measures. The S18 format is a problem, but it is not germane, it is not the root, it is not the central core issue at all.

The root problem is the contemporary quality of Super rugby being played in Australia and this is powerfully reflected in all of code-wide Super crowd declines, Pay TV declines and, even more sharply, the embarrassingly hapless position of all the Australian S18 teams on the March 2017 Super points table.

The playing quality today of our professional rugby teams in total is mostly crap and thus we keep losing games over and over again to all expect very weak non-Aus teams, and our own teams.

Look at how the Brumbies are now playing, from a spectator perspective, it's chronically boring, limited, unexciting. Compare the woeful skill lapses and ridiculous penalty incurrence levels of the 2017 Reds vs the dazzling, coherent running play of their 2010-11 version that saw Brisbane as whole quickly come right back to rugby union. The Tahs had a 2-year surge to a short moment of greatness then more or less immediately lapsed back to old mediocrities and excuses. The Rebels are in their 7th season no less yet today cannot even win one match so far this season. The Force's crowds have been at non-viable levels for years now as their local RU elite (like many others on the East Coast) grossly botched managerial and coaching appointments over and over again resulting in a team that, sadly, never achieved anything real enough to enlarge its paying fan base.

It's blindingly obvious - our core problem is NOT format re-aligments and, say, more competitions with the Kiwis alone (wherein people conveniently forget we'd be decimated virtually every game with that the case as the Kiwi have improved just as much as we have degraded), and NRC turbo-charging and all such fancy variations on a dying theme.

Our core problem, and the related challenge, is how to do everything radical in deep change terms that is essential to ensure a far smaller number of professional Australian rugby teams can be well coached, the better-skilled players well selected and developed, and whereby the resulting teams can compete with others (principally the Kiwis) on an equal or near-equal footing based on a display of skills and fitness that enables a brand of as-played rugby that Australian crowds have shown, when it exists and consistently so, they can appreciate, enjoy and pay to watch (as was demonstrated by what Cheika and McKenzie so briefly enabled in the glorious glimmer years of 2010-12 and 2013-14).

Note above I consciously say 'far smaller number'. There can be no doubting that. The urgent revolution we need to get _real skills and consistent, attractive playing quality_ back into Australian professional rugby (and thus to forestall its decline into bankruptcy and irrevocable code death here) will never, ever arise from a volume of total professional playing days that way exceeds the essential skills and capabilities we realistically have at our disposal but will be only be enabled if we shrink back to place where we can assemble and focus the essential critical mass of coaches (some of which will need to be imported) and players we need to achieve the qualitative playing outcome improvements described above.

The idea that 'we must have 5 Super teams and let's kind of deny for now that it doesn't matter if most if not all play badly for yet more years on end' is more sentimental and emotional than it is in any way rational.

The notion that 'fixing' Australian rugby is all about overall format shuffling, new comps but with the same quantity of play days, 'only play the Kiwis', 'must get rugby back on FTA', and so on is a well-intentioned illusion that avoids the truly radical changes needed so to _systemically_ and, indeed, rapidly enough, fix the problems associated with the appalling decline in the standard of play and coaching in the Australian professional rugby playing system in its entirety.

This essential revolution will only commence with the complete reformation of the ARU's board and most of its management combined with similar actions at most State RU levels.

Australian rugby and its many code-loving and loyal fans have been grievously betrayed by its elite in one of the worst cases of disgraceful corporate self-indulgence, strategic neglect, poor conduct and raw incompetence ever witnessed within the conduct of a sport in this country..or anywhere for that matter.

We now know the consequences - and our own docile passivity as fans is partly to blame as there is no 'rise up' movement to be seen anywhere - and they can be denied no longer. There is little time left for effective action. Rugby's emerging death in Australia is now more likely than its revival.

Reds Happy

Excellent post, I will go behind your comments and add just a little.

Since the late 90's I have been calling warnings on over reading our position. Soccer was on its death bed, League in tatters after the super league war, and AFL coming off a rare period of poor management.

What happened was we devalued our established club structure and as soccer, league & AFL recovered their positions we failed to hear warning from folk like myself that our park structures were by comparison poor.

In effect many players were lost to other codes and that reflects on players, coaches and training programs we have today.

There is no magic thing we can do to fix this.

We need to understand it going to be a hard slog to reengage the broader community and create a meaningful sub level to play at.

We essentially destroyed and attached our well established and working pathways and along the way totally lost the state school system. In addition many of our local park teams believed they were playing for sheep stations at very junior levels.

As someone who was screaming at the madness as I saw it.

If I can quote only one example. A young Asian boy of 12 went to school with my oldest son, and my son convinced him to play union.

The coach and parents gave him the nickname of Aussie, he was quite talented at sport but struggled for game time as this was his first year in rugby and he had never seen a game nor had his parents. His parents gave up asking questions as to many it seemed a bad thing they did not know very basic decisions and types of play.

Roughly two thirds of the season he and his parents stopped coming.

Next year he played soccer in the team above my second son. It turned out his father was in his community somewhat of a local leader. The soccer club made him welcome and his son while never having played sport before he knew a fair bit about soccer. He finished winning the B & F in the soccer team.

Next year his Dad influenced countless other Asians to join the soccer club.
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
The ARU is in no position to tell the NZRU what to do, let alone play silly buggers. Like it or nor you are joined at the hip in this thing. No way the ARU is going to flex their muscles through the media and call the NZRU's bluff.

You need them as your ally.

Having a divided ARU / NZRU is 100% what any negotiating broadcaster would want. Divide and conquer.

Why should we continue going down a path that works for New Zealand but doesn't work for us?

The Super Rugby model is failing here because the sport is up against much more competition than it is in NZ - and all the competing sports provide more content and have more reach into more regions than rugby does. And that's only increased in recent years. It's the opposite in NZ, where they compete against 1 NRL club and 1 A League club. Rugby only cuts through here when one of our 6 teams (including the Wallabies) has a run of success. Meanwhile, the other sports have multiple local success stories and interesting competitive narratives every single year.

Australian rugby may not be any worse off if we just withdrew from the whole thing, picked the Wallabies from wherever they played around the world and started from scratch with a Rugby version of the A League. We'd arguably be better off within a few years, especially as a lot more Wallabies revenue could be directed to the grassroots.

So the ARU are in a position to tell the NZRU what to do. They rely on us going along on this ride to sustain their professional model. If they aren't willing to make it work better for us than we can just get off.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
If that is aimed at me, be assured that I have not "gone quiet". I just get tired of saying the same things time after time. It is always a helluva lot easier to criticise than it is to make constructive suggestions.


Most of the criticism of the ARU has been sweeping, amteurish, and not based in much reality.


Then again, my background happens to be in a large and successful professional sporting organisation. I have a reasonable understanding of what is possible, and what is not. And I know that the ARU are now, and have been for a long while, operating in a very difficult environment, with a lot of exogenous factors that impinge on their ability to achieve what we would all like to see achieved. Including, believe it or not, the poor buggers who have devoted a lot of their lives to the game in Australia.


There are so many "experts" on this forum. Argue amongst yourselves. Nothing will come of it, but enjoy yourselves.

It's not aimed at you Wamberal. I don't expect you to go quiet at all. I'm generally in agreement with your rugby views, although we are in complete disagreement on the competence of rugby administration. You're entitled to your views. If you're happy with the state of the game and the way it's being run, one of the joys of living in a free country is that you can express that view.

I did note that on one of the threads (maybe even this one), you said what you would do if you were made CEO of the ARU. Sadly the current lot have followed the opposite course.
 
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NTT

Guest
Is it any wonder our chairman Tony Howarth is saying things like the Force were set up to fail when we look at the numbers? We had a huge initial membership that propped us up for 7 years while trying to establish a playing list within the "salary cap". I use air quotes as we all know Wallaby top ups to NSW, QLD and ACT are not included in the "salary cap". Being a fledgling franchise with a need to build our infrastructure, ie our pathways, the Force received a grand total of $0 above the $200 000 we received for community funding, hardly enough to set up an academy or other high performance development pathway. We were told we could use 3rd party deals to attract players. Along comes Peter O'Meara (former QLD and NSW board member) with his childhood friend Tim Johnston and their whole Firepower debacle to use the Force as an elaborate con scheme. Nedding the money to be competitive on field we took the "opportunity of a lifetime" to recruit a decent squad to drive interest by results. As with any too good to be true con scheme it all started to unravel. Then the next few years until we formed the "Alliance" with the ARU, again i use air quotes as the reporting suggests the ARU is looking to weasel out of it, we were left to fight over players not good enough for the other franchises and coaches who were not up to super rugby, often paying overs to get them to move to Perth all while trying to fit these inflated pay packets into the "salary cap". Then the Rebels were set up. Promising young players like Alo-Emile, Luke Jones, Inman, Ah-Nau, Siliva were taken from us leaving an even bigger hole to fill to be competitive on the field. The ARUs stance on the whole thing? Stiff shit, youre on your own. More players and coaches came along we had to overpay to get them here whilst keeping to the "salary cap". Thats when the decision to establish the Future Force was made, if the ARU wasn't going to come to the table we had to do it ourselves.Hiring Sinderberry was vital as he had experience setting up Saracens academy to one of the best in English rugby. To fund the academy we were lucky we had some very generous sponsors who quickly got on board. These people contribute somewhere around $500 000 a year to provide rugby scholarships. The ARUs contribution? Still $0. Seeing as the Future Force is starting to produce the level of players we need to build a strong squad, why wouldn't we get behind it? All the while the ARU is pumping millions of extra cash into the Rebels just to keep the doors open.
Now the ARU want to shaft us again by weaseling out of the "Alliance" deal that was supposed to give us until 2020 to sort out our finances and bring a greater collaboration between the Force and the ARU in terms of getting our programs alligned to the ARUs high performance unit to help with on field success. As we know, Perth goes nuts for a succesful team. One year in and the ARU is rumored to be about to do a massive backflip on us and shaft us again.
So yeah, like everyone in history we made some mistakes but what do you expect when the needed support to establish the franchise initially was not forthcoming. The original Force board were all volunteers who were good at running the local comp. They were then thrust into the role of running a professional franchise with no help from the ARU. They were given one edict by the ARU, you are on your own. Compare that to the millions thrown at GWS Giants or the Gold Coast Suns, compare that to the playing list equalisation those AFL clubs received, compare that to the infrastructure established by the AFL at those clubs, both were given funding for academies from the start.
If the Force do get chopped then the ARU has blood on they're hands and have been complicit in the Forces demise. It reminds me of the old saying "to throw the lambs to the wolves". The wolf this time however is the ARU.

#keepthe5alive
 
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Moono75

Guest
Twiggy and FMG continuing with their sponsorship of the Force for another 2 years. Well done FMG ;)
 

Omar Comin'

Chilla Wilson (44)
Signed as well. RUPA need to get the players to share that thing out on Facebook and Twitter. Especially the big name guys with thousands of followers.
 

John S

Chilla Wilson (44)
I've signed, and shared. I know my brother who lives in Perth has some skin in any decision, and a guy I work with is refusing to watch any rugby while this is going on, and will give up the game altogether if the Brumbies are cut.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Idea for everyone: take signs to this weekends games in Australia with slogans and hashtags such as #keepthefivealive


Can I just print out this?

images
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)


Come on everyone. Sign the petition, post it on facebook, get everyone with even the slightest interest in the game to sign. We need this to go viral, its probably the best chance we have at actually saying to the establishment enough is enough.

All it will take is 2 mins of your time
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
I'd love for all franchises to actively get behind this.
Petitions are all well and good (edit and a great starting point), but sell out your home ground full of fans letting the ARU know what they think of any proposal to cut teams is the only way anyone in power is going to take any notice.

It's really the only way to show the team is worth saving too.
 
N

NTT

Guest
Petitions are all well and good, but sell out your home ground full of fans letting the ARU know what they think of any proposal to cut teams is the only way anyone in power is going to take any notice.

It's really the only way to show the team is worth saving too.


A petition is a legally recognisable document. Dont be so shortsighted in your assumptions. It only takes 10 000 signatures for government to discuss a petition in Parliament. Another misinformed contribution.
 
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