Where to for Super Rugby?

[swingpass]

^^^^^ laughable that picking Force originally was the worst mistake. Would've been bankrupt sooner if we'd had the rebels lead balloon that long.

except that the Rebels start up was severely hampered by the experience of NSW and Qld (in particular) being raped, when the Force were set up. If the Rebels had initially been allowed to recruit as the Force were, and had been successful, their parlous financial state may not have occurred. A bit like turning down the easy 3 points in game, you lose by two; the successful earlier kick at goal completely changes the whole game dynamic. A successful, well resourced (player wise) early Rebels in the afterglow of RWC 2003 might have made for a financially viable franchise rather than one leaking $$$$. who knows for sure, but it is a distinct possibility.

 

[lou75]

except that the Rebels start up was severely hampered by the experience of NSW and Qld (in particular) being raped, when the Force were set up. If the Rebels had initially been allowed to recruit as the Force were, and had been successful, their parlous financial state may not have occurred. A bit like turning down the easy 3 points in game, you lose by two; the successful earlier kick at goal completely changes the whole game dynamic. A successful, well resourced (player wise) early Rebels in the afterglow of RWC 2003 might have made for a financially viable franchise rather than one leaking $$$$. who knows for sure, but it is a distinct possibility.

You are a bit of a revisionist if you think that. Actually, the Rebels start up was hampered by getting their licence so late that most of the good domestic players had already signed contracts - it was not at all anything to do with "NSW and QLD being raped" that's a wierd analogy in itself - I suspect you mean "pillaged - robbed - raided". Rebels had no option but to offer contracts to overseas players - who they had to pay large to to entice them to come to Melbourne.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Whether Aus should've been awarded a fourth licence in 2006 is a whole different debate BUT if one accepts that it was a viable proposition then there's no doubt in my mind they made the right call in.going West where the game already had something of a profile & following, rather than to Vic where it had neither (even the Storm with their multiple tainted NRL Premierships struggle for coverage, look at the Age website & they're often behind local-league AFL in the headlines). Also WA was a better fit for SA travel-wise & it gave the broadcasters another time zone therefore more content. A total no-braimer IMO.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not buying into Killer's arguments about Clyne vis-a-vis Twiggy at all, but I am flabbergasted that a suggestion that Clyne should go is being met with such apparent disagreement by so many posters in their responses.

Regardless of motivations, Clyne has been a disruptive and especially divisive Chairman of RA over the past couple of years, and I see no benefit accruing with him staying. I was particularly peeved to see him (as a person, not in a Chairman's role) sharing the glory of the 7s victory presentations last weekend.

 

[swingpass]

Whether Aus should've been awarded a fourth licence in 2006 is a whole different debate BUT if one accepts that it was a viable proposition then there's no doubt in my mind they made the right call in.going West where the game already had something of a profile & following, rather than to Vic where it had neither (even the Storm with their multiple tainted NRL Premierships struggle for coverage, look at the Age website & they're often behind local-league AFL in the headlines). Also WA was a better fit for SA travel-wise & it gave the broadcasters another time zone therefore more content. A total no-braimer IMO.

i am not saying the wrong decision was made in 2006, i am saying that the circumstances when the Rebels were set up, were very different to when the Force were. Largely in part because of the proscriptions put on them by the ARU about contracting Australian based players. That was a direct result of the pillaging of the Reds in particular, and neither they, the Tahs nor the Brumbies wanted it to happen again.

 

[wamberal]

A friend of mine, a former Wallaby, was a Board member when the Force bid was accepted. He told me that the Board had been very impressed at the quality of the bid, and particularly by the level of community support that was in evidence.


In contrast (and I am not quoting him on this), the Victorians just kind of went through the motions, did as little as possible, just appearing to believe that they would win as a matter of right. There definitely was a strong rugby tradition in Victoria, they had produced a number of Wallabies over the years, and had even beaten NSW in a game prewar (captained by the great "Weary" Dunlop).


Was it the right decision? Who cares. It was the decision that the then board made, that was their job, and they did it.

Just as successive boards, and the executive management have. Right or wrong, this is who we are.

 

[swingpass]

A friend of mine, a former Wallaby, was a Board member when the Force bid was accepted. He told me that the Board had been very impressed at the quality of the bid, and particularly by the level of community support that was in evidence.


In contrast (and I am not quoting him on this), the Victorians just kind of went through the motions, did as little as possible, just appearing to believe that they would win as a matter of right. There definitely was a strong rugby tradition in Victoria, they had produced a number of Wallabies over the years, and had even beaten NSW in a game prewar (captained by the great "Weary" Dunlop).


Was it the right decision? Who cares. It was the decision that the then board made, that was their job, and they did it.

Just as successive boards, and the executive management have. Right or wrong, this is who we are.

Wamberal, this equates with what i know about the decision, at least from the Victorian perspective. much too little, too late and too underwhelming from the VRU, the bid committee and in particular the State government.

 

[Slim 293]

Two things...........

There’s absolutely no doubt that the decision to award WA a team for the Super 14 was the right one back then.......... it would be revisionist to suggest otherwise.

The Rebels recruitment in their first year was impacted by the RWC and the cycle of player signings leading into 2011.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^^^^ I'll add a third:

Expanding into Vic so soon after WA was madness & any number of people warned ARU that it would be a money pit, something they realised quite quickly, I think, but pretended not to until Pulver came along & ARU's true financial posistion became more general knowledge (not saying that was cause & effect, just that they were more-or-less concurrent).

I wish the Rebels & esp their supporters well, I don't want them to fold any more than I'd want an NZ side to fold, but I just don't see how they can possibly survive without regular capital injections from RA, which to my mind is merely shifting the liability from one balance sheet to another until one (or, God forbid, both) becomes insolvent.

 

[jimmydubs]

Was it the right decision? Who cares. It was the decision that the then board made, that was their job, and they did it.

As I have said earlier, maybe, just maybe, the worst mistake was picking the Force way back when, instead of going with the safer Melbourne option.

 

[half]

Confused where to post this i.e. this thread or the RA thread. Judgement call made more sense on this thread as we are cutting a Super Rugby team. This is competition to Super Rugby so I posted here as I said a judgement call.

As many would appreciate my support for the RA board is not the greatest and has not been for quite a while nor the various Super Rugby boards. However this post is not meant in any way to be critical of any rugby administration in Australia because this is very new in fact only starts on 15 February.

A couple of pages back I commented on what other codes were planning and we have AFKX starting soon and will have all the usual southern states media hype and with free tickets and fairy-floss it is bound to be reported as a success. Another area I briefly touched on was FFA and a new E-Sport competition and I wondered what it was.

Sorry on the long winded intro. But I was wondering aloud if this will work, could rugby copy [essentially do we have the software].

Many of you will have seen kids playing a computer FIFA game, they bring it out each year and at the WC. It’s one of the world’s biggest selling games and along with Madden [US gridiron game] the world’s biggest selling sports game.

FFA currently in a civil war about expansion and growth, have received from almost the entire soccer community [very rare] praise for having the A-League teams now included in the FIFA game. Further they have set up an E-game A-League tournament with E-Sports players and A-League players.

FFA ‘s belief is by having this tournament and having the A-League included as one of the leagues in the FIFA game this will increase awareness and support for the A-League.

Below are some links to this new competition.

It’s something we can all keep an eye out for to see if it’s successful and can we copy. What do we have to counter this if it is successful, as I said this time it’s not about any of the boards it’s about can we copy this. It’s very new and aimed at the under 20 say under 25 market.

BTW FFA will broadcast these games on youtube and facebook and Fox and twitter.

Some links to what this is about if interested.

www.a-league.com.au/e-league/how-to-watch
Broadcast Details

The e-League Draft will be a ‘Facebook Live’ broadcast conducted through the Hyundai A-League Facebook page: www.facebook.com/aleague/
The Draft will be held Live in Sydney on Thursday, 1 February commencing at 18:30 (6:30 pm) AEDT
The first round of e-League will take place on 15 February
You can live stream the match on FOX Sports and the official eLeague Twitch channel
Visit the fixtures page to see all the upcoming matches and rounds
You can catch up on all the action in the official eLeague HUB and join the conversation through the Hyundai A-League social channels:
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram
YouTube

www.a-league.com.au/e-league/fixtures
Teams, fixtures and broadcast

www.news.com.au/sport/football/ffa-announces-eleague-an-esports-league-with-fifa-video-game-players-representing-aleague-clubs/news-story/b90fc7c6ca1950b44d8e74feb27b1e99

THE A-League is spreading its wings into esports, with each club set to compete in a new FIFA video game.

 

[wamberal]

Soccer is not our main competition, IMHO. I personally do not think it matters much what they do. What matters is what the ARL and AFL do, but much more importantly, what does World Rugby do, particularly about the rule book, and the quality of match officiating.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Soccer is not our main competition, IMHO. I personally do not think it matters much what they do. What matters is what the ARL and AFL do, but much more importantly, what does World Rugby do, particularly about the rule book, and the quality of match officiating.

I don't know Wambers, The A-league is our main competition for how low TV ratings can go this year (and they have set a pretty low bar for 2018)

 

[Dan54]

Soccer is not our main competition, IMHO. I personally do not think it matters much what they do. What matters is what the ARL and AFL do, but much more importantly, what does World Rugby do, particularly about the rule book, and the quality of match officiating.

Well I can't see the WR (World Rugby) changing too many laws so ARU can compete with soccer better, neither would I want them too, why do we think we have to keep stuffing around with laws, for the extra people you get watching you actually risk losing that many long term rugby people. Unfortunately or fortunately rugby is actually going pretty well around the world , so do you really think WR (World Rugby) has interest in changing to much to pick up a few extra fans in Aus! As for the officiating I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as a lot make out! And if you look at any sport almost all fans complain that reffing is somehow all completely crap , and it usually depends on outcomes of decisions for or against their team, and often by complaints by people who don't really know the laws of the game completely anyway!

 

[wamberal]

Dan,


We are all entitled to our opinions. I base mine not on what I personally think, but what some of my neighbours think, and what my wife thinks. All either actual or, more importantly, potential fans of our game.


Do you know much about the Australian sporting landscape? The minor place that rugby has clung to for many years is testament to what people like in winter games.


And the overwhelming majority of Australian sports fans just do not understand, or like our game. It does not matter what you like, or what I like, or what people "around the world" like (although good luck trying to expand into markets like the US, or the PRC under our current rules); for the purposes of this discussion it matters what the local sports fan liks.


The last part of your answer is instructive. Does the casual viewer really have to "know the rules of the game completely" to enjoy the game?


Compare and contrast with the AFL and the NRL. The casual viewer, new to either sport, can pick up the basics in a week or two.


You can spend fifty years playing and watching the game, as I have, and still not understand the rules completely. And why the frig should anybody have to?

 

[Highlander35]

Well I can't see the WR (World Rugby) changing too many laws so ARU can compete with soccer better, neither would I want them too, why do we think we have to keep stuffing around with laws, for the extra people you get watching you actually risk losing that many long term rugby people. Unfortunately or fortunately rugby is actually going pretty well around the world , so do you really think WR (World Rugby) has interest in changing to much to pick up a few extra fans in Aus! As for the officiating I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as a lot make out! And if you look at any sport almost all fans complain that reffing is somehow all completely crap , and it usually depends on outcomes of decisions for or against their team, and often by complaints by people who don't really know the laws of the game completely anyway!

Don't bother. With Wamb it's like playing chess with a pigeon, at least when it comes to the laws.

 

[TOCC]

Dan,


We are all entitled to our opinions. I base mine not on what I personally think, but what some of my neighbours think, and what my wife thinks. All either actual or, more importantly, potential fans of our game.


Do you know much about the Australian sporting landscape? The minor place that rugby has clung to for many years is testament to what people like in winter games.


And the overwhelming majority of Australian sports fans just do not understand, or like our game. It does not matter what you like, or what I like, or what people "around the world" like (although good luck trying to expand into markets like the US, or the PRC under our current rules); for the purposes of this discussion it matters what the local sports fan liks.


The last part of your answer is instructive. Does the casual viewer really have to "know the rules of the game completely" to enjoy the game?


Compare and contrast with the AFL and the NRL. The casual viewer, new to either sport, can pick up the basics in a week or two.


You can spend fifty years playing and watching the game, as I have, and still not understand the rules completely. And why the frig should anybody have to?

Nah, tv ratings over the past 20 years have demonstrated that their are significantly more rugby union fans In Australia then what are been engaged with the current package of Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship.

The rules aren’t perfect, but they aren’t the issue either, rather the way the game is been presented is the issue. That being the design, length and accessibility of the Super Rugby season and subsequently the performance of the Wallabies.

 

[Dan54]

Dan,


We are all entitled to our opinions. I base mine not on what I personally think, but what some of my neighbours think, and what my wife thinks. All either actual or, more importantly, potential fans of our game.


Do you know much about the Australian sporting landscape? The minor place that rugby has clung to for many years is testament to what people like in winter games.


And the overwhelming majority of Australian sports fans just do not understand, or like our game. It does not matter what you like, or what I like, or what people "around the world" like (although good luck trying to expand into markets like the US, or the PRC under our current rules); for the purposes of this discussion it matters what the local sports fan liks.


The last part of your answer is instructive. Does the casual viewer really have to "know the rules of the game completely" to enjoy the game?


Compare and contrast with the AFL and the NRL. The casual viewer, new to either sport, can pick up the basics in a week or two.


You can spend fifty years playing and watching the game, as I have, and still not understand the rules completely. And why the frig should anybody have to?

I was not in anyway downplaying your opinion Wamb, more giving mine, and yes as I have lived in Aus for 20 years with a good percentage of that time spent in being actively involved in rugby clubs so I do understand where rugby is in our sports world here. Do you think your wife and neighbours would actually follow rugby if the rules/laws were dumbed down so they could understand them? They might and would that compensate for the likes of me and I suspect quite a number more who would turn from the game, I can honestly say although League is probably pretty easy to understand, one of the prime reasons is that you can simplify the laws where there is basically no competition for possession and is also probably why League has maybe struggled to get a real foothold in a lot of countries, it is rightly or wrongly seen as a not very highly skilled game where you just try and run through each other, so maybe we have to just say, let's leave League to those who like that, but for chistssakes don't try and make rugby like that just to attract a few more people in Australia!

 

[Slim 293]

The rules aren’t perfect, but they aren’t the issue either, rather the way the game is been presented is the issue.

Precisely......... we've been through this before, but the game in Australia has been immensely more popular during times when the rules were no easier to understand, or didn't promote as much attacking rugby as it does now.

The reasons why rugby league got a foothold in this county are certainly more complex, and changing the rules to appease a minority isn't going to help, especially when the game is doing fine internationally.

 

[TOCC]

The reasons why rugby league got a foothold in this county are certainly more complex, and changing the rules to appease a minority isn't going to help, especially when the game is doing fine internationally.

Yes, why should WR (World Rugby) change the rules because Australia has bungled professionalism?