Where to for Super Rugby?

[waiopehu oldboy]

dru said: ↑
Brent, like it or not, NZRU and SANZAR are a key cog in this mess.

THIS IS NOT WORKING FOR US, WE ARE NOT OBLIGED TO STAY.

The sooner we are rid of Clyne and can get on with withdrawal from Soup the better.

I understand where you're coming from - shit, I'd probably feel the same way if it were NZ in the position Oz is in - but I was responding to QH's post re: what demands NZRU might make in terms of a TT comp. Obviously if there's no TT comp because Oz are going it alone the point is moot.

 

[RebelYell]

Clyne has lost the change room. Time to go.

Clyne never had the change room. He has lost the board room. Sayonara.

 

[Sully]

Clyne never had the change room. He has lost the board room. Sayonara.

I don't think he has lost the board.

 

[dru]

I don't think he has lost the board.

Which is simply depressing.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Clyne is completely out of touch with Aus rugby supporters and common sense.
He is so full of BS it is difficult to comprehend how he can be prepared to put himself up to ridicule with such comments reeking of self interest.

He can't use the financial issue anymore.
He can't use the grassroots issue anymore.
He can't use the fear SANZAAR will sue us reason anymore.
He is now trying to use the on field performance, if so then why get rid of the Force, the 2nd top performer?

He doesn't care about Aus rugby just saving his own skin. How weak are the other Board members!

“The reason we’re pushing on (with the move to cull a team) is that whatever 2020 delivers, Australia’s best negotiating position will be going in with strong, on-field performances,” Clyne said. “Because that gives us the opportunity to say we are a country that’s delivering on the field and therefore should have an ability to help shape the competition. Simple as that.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...r/news-story/3a1c2f26f6eb2ee3020d6762a70a0631

And so long as the Force can stay together and play out 2018, I think they will continue on the upwards swing noticed this year. Hard to say the same about some of the other Aus franchises whose immediate success seems to depend on the allocation of existing Force players.

 

[TOCC]

Worst thing for the Force if they win the appeal, is that they have completely screwed over by the ARU in the recruiting and retention stakes for 2018, the uncertainty of their future would no doubt have played into the minds of a few players who had been considered moving west forcing them to otherwise pick an east cost club. Whilst still a good squad on paper, they have lost a few key individuals and have been unable to recruit replacement players as a result of this debacle.

 

[BLR]

Whilst still a good squad on paper, they have lost a few key individuals and have been unable to recruit replacement players as a result of this debacle.

The beauty of the NRC is this could hopefully identify a few handy players that can fill those spots. (Unless the Rebels get them as they seem to have quite a few spots free in their squad)

 

[James Pettifer]

The beauty of the NRC is this could hopefully identify a few handy players that can fill those spots. (Unless the Rebels get them as they seem to have quite a few spots free in their squad)

A bit farcical to have most of the squads fully signed up before the NRC starts ...

 

[BLR]

A bit farcical to have most of the squads fully signed up before the NRC starts .

Yeah I get that, but the Rebels seem to have had lots of outgoings and not so much coming in at this point. There is a limit to how many players you would want to take on from the NRC alone I would be thinking.

Keep in mind I am only singling them out as a comparison to the other sides who seem to have a fuller roster at this point.

 

[Highlander35]

Yeah I get that, but the Rebels seem to have had lots of outgoings and not so much coming in at this point. There is a limit to how many players you would want to take on from the NRC alone I would be thinking.

Keep in mind I am only singling them out as a comparison to the other sides who seem to have a fuller roster at this point.

I think that we're obviously playing it by ear: should the Force go (thankfully it looks more unlikely as each day goes by), I'd imagine that 6 or 7 would be snapped up within a short period of time, plugging most of the key gaps.

Otherwise, a lot of players in our very, very big squad are still around (in Melbourne or elsewhere Australia and New Zealand) despite not having contracts (or at least, publicly announced contracts) for next season, when I'm sure they could have picked up Contracts in Japan or France a la guys like Inman, Leafa and Debreczini.

 

[Quick Hands]

I suspect you'd find NZRU less demanding & way less likely to threaten to leave if they don't get their own way than SARU.

I hope that's the case.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^SARU's biggest sticking point was always the extra travel burden on their teams compared to the Australasian ones (kinda ironic that they've now got two teams in Europe, I wonder how long before they start arguing for a "fairer deal") obviously that doesn't apply in the case of a TT competition even if there's a PI/ Asian component. And as we all know SARU reasoned that since their TV rights brought in the most revenue that gave them a bigger say in proceedings, I can't see NZRU holding the same view.

Provided the Financials stack up they'll obviously hold out for the best deal they can get but not at the risk of ending up with nothing or essentially an expanded NPC as that's never gonna be self-funding. That reality also makes it just about impossible for NZRU to bluff their way to a bigger slice of the pie or a preferential draw, extra teams etc as SARU did at various times.

 

[TOCC]

ARU/NZRU will be hoping the investment in Japan begins to pay dividends by the next broadcast negotiations, they'll need broasccast recenue from Japan to offset the loss of that generated via South Africa.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Not sure if this has been covered but according to PlanetRugby both the Sharks and the Lions have written to the SARU expressing their desire to head north. Clearly, continuing the engagement and competition with NZ isn't as important or as much of a priority for them as it is for NZ.

When this happens and they are joined by the Stormers and Bulls in quick succession the dumping of the Force on our end and the utter refusal to even consider an Asia-Pacific/TT competition on behalf of NZ will come back to bite them on the arse big time.

 

[RebelYell]

Which is simply depressing.

The rumours of a splintering board are only growing louder...

 

[zer0]

On the subject of broadcasting deals, the NZRU is now expecting Amazon to enter the competition.

Sanzaar's formal bidding process for rights to screen provincial, Super and test match rugby from 2021 is now slated to be under way by April next year, an earlier-than-usual start time to allow new overseas players - Amazon's Prime Video streaming service being the most notable - to address not-insubstantial infrastructural issues.

.....

What remains to be seen is whether rights are carved up between the incumbent and challengers; if Amazon want to cherry pick games initially rather than take on full-scale production, or even if NZ Rugby assume some production in-house to become a niche broadcaster.

While no formal bids have yet been registered with NZ Rugby, the early stages of a mutually beneficial relationship with Amazon have been forming for over a year.

News broke last month Amazon were in the process of filming an eight-part documentary on the All Blacks, scheduled to go to air next year. In isolation this project is intriguing but similar productions overseas have foreshadowed Amazon's entry into sports broadcasting markets.

Amazon commissioned similar documentaries on Serbian tennis star Novak Djokovic - and then went on to purchase the UK rights for the ATP men's tennis world tour which features all top flight tournaments outside the four Grand Slams. Amazon easily outbid Sky UK and will pay around $18 million per year for these rights.

After producing documentaries on the Arizona Cardinals and Los Angeles Rams, Amazon then bought rights to screen 10 Thursday night NFL games this year for $69 million.

.....

Amazon is owned and run by Jeff Bezos, the world's third-richest man, and the company has proved willing to spend heavily and run at a loss to establish a market presence in online retailing and, more recently, sports broadcasting.

.....

A bidding war will work in NZ Rugby's favour as broadcasting rights accounts for around half of their annual revenue and funds everything from the grassroots to professional game.

The more revenue the governing body squeezes from the negotiation table, the more it has to throw at the country's best players. "That cash is needed to compete with French billionaires. That's the world we live in now," one NZ Rugby source said.

The last five-year Sanzaar agreement doubled in value - appreciating as fast as the Auckland real estate market - with Forsyth Barr estimating Sky now forks out around $60 million annually.

Despite myriad issues surrounding Super Rugby's reduction from 18 to 15 teams next year, the Sanzaar package is still considered premium content and there is wide expectation a new deal will follow the booming path of overseas rights and appreciate further.

"The last time there was some competitive tension. This time there will be a lot of competitive tension," one well-placed source said contrasting the 2014 deal with the one to be struck next year.

Any boost in NZ Rugby broadcasting revenue also directly benefits Sanzaar partners - Australia, South Africa and Argentina. While most rights are negotiated separately, with NZ Rugby conducting its own on behalf of Sanzaar, money is pooled and divided on an agreed formula.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11915194

Would also have the benefit of killing Sky (NZ).

 

[Quick Hands]

ARU/NZRU will be hoping the investment in Japan begins to pay dividends by the next broadcast negotiations, they'll need broasccast recenue from Japan to offset the loss of that generated via South Africa.

Although I'd suggest that super rugby as an inter-continental, multi-time zone product will have ever lessening value from a broadcast point of view anyway.

For it's first few years, super rugby was a runaway success. I think people (me included) thought that this was going to continue. You'd probably recall that even at its inception that there were criticisms regarding the lack of identification with the team names etc.

I suspect that with 20/20 hindsight, a large reason for super rugby's initial success was that we'd never really had any provincial full-time professional rugby tournament before - certainly not in the southern hemisphere. So it filled a void in that sense and the rugby was good quality, so the issues regarding travel and time zones were perhaps ignored to an extent.

As time has gone on, the inter-continental travel and the multi-time zone fixtures have become more and more of a problem. Add to this political factors in SA and a general decline in rugby in Australia and the whole basis of the competition is questionable.

Even if we could go back in time to super 12 or have a "Dallas" like moment and wake up with the past few years as a dream*, I still think that super rugby is a dead duck.

I think that TRC has the wobbles for many of the same reasons of inter-continental travel and multi-time zones. Expanding to two rounds was a big mistake. One round, held in conjunction with long tours would probably/possibly work.

*older posters will remember that a whole year of Dallas was anulled when the first episode of the next season revealed that it had all been a dream

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Although I'd suggest that super rugby as an inter-continental, multi-time zone product will have ever lessening value from a broadcast point of view anyway.

For it's first few years, super rugby was a runaway success. I think people (me included) thought that this was going to continue. You'd probably recall that even at its inception that there were criticisms regarding the lack of identification with the team names etc.

I suspect that with 20/20 hindsight, a large reason for super rugby's initial success was that we'd never really had any provincial full-time professional rugby tournament before - certainly not in the southern hemisphere. So it filled a void in that sense and the rugby was good quality, so the issues regarding travel and time zones were perhaps ignored to an extent.

As time has gone on, the inter-continental travel and the multi-time zone fixtures have become more and more of a problem. Add to this political factors in SA and a general decline in rugby in Australia and the whole basis of the competition is questionable.

Even if we could go back in time to super 12 or have a "Dallas" like moment and wake up with the past few years as a dream*, I still think that super rugby is a dead duck.

I think that TRC has the wobbles for many of the same reasons of inter-continental travel and multi-time zones. Expanding to two rounds was a big mistake. One round, held in conjunction with long tours would probably/possibly work.

*older posters will remember that a whole year of Dallas was anulled when the first episode of the next season revealed that it had all been a dream

I agree people were prepared to accept not having a national based competition because super rugby was initially with 12 teams good quality and not having had professional rugby in oz prepared to take on offer at least being involved in professional rugby. Now as cracks fully opened the desire for a more closer to home competition whether that be trans Tasman or national comp will be difficult to ignore. It will happen but when is the question.


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[half]

Not sure if this has been covered but according to PlanetRugby both the Sharks and the Lions have written to the SARU expressing their desire to head north. Clearly, continuing the engagement and competition with NZ isn't as important or as much of a priority for them as it is for NZ.

When this happens and they are joined by the Stormers and Bulls in quick succession the dumping of the Force on our end and the utter refusal to even consider an Asia-Pacific/TT competition on behalf of NZ will come back to bite them on the arse big time.

agree

 

[chibimatty]

Just thinking about the idea of all the SA teams going north, posted this in another thread. Bear in mind, it could be viewed as further expansion, but I was thinking more along the lines of regional stream-lining.

Well, if all the South Africans move to Pro 14, the other more fantastical idea, would be to amalgamate Pro 14 and Super Rugby. Then we can have two separate conferences running as separate leagues, one Argentina/Greenwich mean-timezone, the other an Aus-NZ-Asia/Pacific timezone. Have no the inter-league stuff until the finals come along only. By that stage anyway, being one or two games away from a grand final, people would still stay up late to watch their team on the other side of the world, as it's a sudden-death play-off. Three games maximum out of your timezone only maybe?

I dunno, just brainstorming.