Where to for Super Rugby?

[Scrubber2050]

Maybe the Australian Government needs to add the following question on any immigration application into this country

Do you support Rugby Union (as opposed to Soccer) ?

A positive response means you gain entry into Australia, a negative one automatically precludes you.

Simple solution really

 

[Brainstrust]

The scheduling of the Saturday tests is the strangest aspect of this June series.
Why a code that has witnessed weakening supporter numbers ( Clyne's own comments) for some time now, schedules Test matches in direct competition to it's supporters.
How many of the rugby community will be unable to go to the Tests due to either, playing or supporting club or school rugby at that time. I understand the interest in afternoon games but it works on a Sunday, not a Saturday when your supporters are effectively unavailable to attend. Odd.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

quote="Dismal Pillock, post: 943150, member: 15318"][/quote]

We'd be better off with the Sopranos running the ARU.
In fact that would be excellent: Billy P seeing Jennifer Melfi.

How about he paid $1 (yes -$1), & about $13mill in debts/loans was wiped clean by the ARU to sweeten the deal? Yes-it's in the financials! And then he was handed a further bucketload of cash. $35mill since 2013 to the Rebels.

I feel sick - in what sense are the Rebels in private ownership?

 

[half]

^^^^Who'd have thought 20 years ago that an Australia v Saudi Arabia soccer match would draw more than double the crowd of Australia v Fiji rugby? A generation ago Aus v Fiji would have drawn close to a full house at the SCG and Australia v Saudi Arabia would have been lucky to draw 10,000.

I don't know how many people actually "boycotted" the test - which implies that they really wanted to go and watch it, but didn't on the basis of a protest. I suspect that most have just lost interest in anything but club.

It's at least a month since I watched a super rugby match, I'm not boycotting it, I just have no real interest in it. I think I saw about 10 mins of a couple of matches when I was channel surfing on a couple of Saturday nights - what was on display was so bad it didn't take long to hit the remote.

I might go to Australia v Scotland on Saturday afternoon, more to take the kids to an international rugby match than anything else.

Rugby in Australia needs a complete change in management and direction for the current malaise to be fixed. I'm not sure that anyone in the ARU possesses the ability to do so - in fact I'm sure that they don't.

Trouble is you get the impression the ARU are still living in world as it existed 20 years ago.


By way of comparison I picked this up from a Football forum.


Last night the Soccerooos had 221 K on TV and 143K on Fox . This is mid week against Masterchef, The Voice, House Rules, etc.

The ARU needs to understand things have changed. I am sure they do in a broad sense but in running and developing rugby I think the over reliance on the GPS which we are losing and a number of other matters. The following post would not have even been dreamed about 20 years ago. They are rightly saying as well this is with no promotion. When 10 comes on board that will change.


Here is a copy of a post from a soccer forum forum, “”””So three games with over 1.2m in aggregate viewing figures, 175,000 fans in attendance, two games played midweek, and in the middle of the AFL season, NRL season, SuperRugby season and a Lions tour taking place next door. This isn't bad, it's bloody good. With a bit of marketing effort and a supportive FTA this can be bettered. “”””

 

[BLR]

Rubbish. The ARU did exactly what they did at the Force. Left them with the players that hadn't been signed up by other teams. Did nothing to encourage players to move to the new teams and when decent players looked like leaving either for overseas or other teams did absolutely nothing to encourage them to stay.

Compare to how the AFL support their new teams.

The Force didn't get the massive extra funding the Rebels have in the past.

The whole point Queensland was so angry at us for years and why we got in trouble a few times was because we literally were told to sort it out.

The Rebels over their life have had far more grants than the Force and initially had more marquee allowances than the other teams.

They can't force players to move to Melbourne and judging by the amount of foundation players in Melbourne compared to the same time in the Force's life they clearly haven't done a good job keeping them, this is on the Rebels.

 

[dru]

They threw boatloads of cash at them without any KPI's associated with its use. God knows what the Rebs used it on but I'd say they had a fair crack of the whip.

Honestly I try not to comment on the Force v Rebels thing as I just find it repugnant. But go ahead, throw another bale on the strawman.

 

[KevinO]

The Force didn't get the massive extra funding the Rebels have in the past.

The whole point Queensland was so angry at us for years and why we got in trouble a few times was because we literally were told to sort it out.

The Rebels over their life have had far more grants than the Force and initially had more marquee allowances than the other teams.

They can't force players to move to Melbourne and judging by the amount of foundation players in Melbourne compared to the same time in the Force's life they clearly haven't done a good job keeping them, this is on the Rebels.

Yeah, Rebels have struggled to keep foundation players. Bit when you look at the squad in 2011 how many are still playing.

Delve: was not allowed to stay longer
Pyle: was on the verge of Wallabies and offered massive money that the Rebels could not match with out one of those top up things we here you get in other states
Jones: same as above
PAE: Same as above
Vuna: money abroad
Phipps: money from Tahs was a better offer
A few retired with injuries and the rest retired.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

[Ignoto]

”””So three games with over 1.2m in aggregate viewing figures, 175,000 fans in attendance, two games played midweek, and in the middle of the AFL season, NRL season, SuperRugby season and a Lions tour taking place next door.

A couple things that need to be taken into consideration when looking at this latest 'figures'.

Going back to the 2016 season, the Socceroos had the following match turn outs;
vs Tajikistan - 35,439 (Adelaide)
vs Jordan - 24,975 (Sydney)
vs Iraq - 18,923 (Perth)

Those 175,000 fans they're referring to, includes a match against Argentina AND Brazil. Two of the top teams in the world who have players that many people in Australia follow in the EPL extra. More importantly, it's against Brazil, the top team in the world and one of the most exciting teams to watch.

Excluding those two games, the Socceroos pulled in:
vs UAE - 27,328 (Sydney)
vs Saudi Arabia - 29,785 (Adelaide)

With all that said and done. I am not saying the ARU or Wallabies have anything to worry about, that Union is in any shape in a good spot right now. What I am saying is, cherry picking stats from one off games involving teams we'll never play again doesn't really demonstrate anything. The fact of the matter is, the Socceroos the bar and expectations is set extremely low based on performances on an international level and the 'strength' of the A-League.

Now, Football (soccer) is growing at a healthy rate, they have similar problems to Union. What I am saying is, cherry picking results from either code performing poorly or when they have a good run doesn't really demonstrate anything in the long run. The Wallabies had a solid turn out last year against the Poms but that doesn't seem to come into this equation or discussion.

 

[half]

^^^^^

The quote you posted as i indicated was from a soccer forum 442 to be specific.

I am not suggesting its perfect .

What I am saying is 20 years back as Quick Hands said this would not have happened.

My comment is the ARU still runs rugby and promotions and many of its structures and polices the same as 20 years ago.

The point is the sporting world has changed. There is a Netball grand final on the weekend broadcast nationally.

Over the last 20 years AFL has added teams, League has restructured, Soccer has gone from Bankrupt to a reasonable professional national domestic competition, Basketball both mens and womens have developed national domestic competitions, Netball has developed a national domestic competition.

WE don't appear to have a plan "B" and if as some suggest and I think will happen, SA moves to Europe post 2020 we have nothing in place to support the professional side of the game.

The board's time today and in the near future seems totally absorbed in legal matters of their own making. They have created a situation were our press is well bad to the power of bad. Management time is spent in crisis management not in developing and managing the game.

The park structures of junior teams moving to Sunday morning so as not to effect the GPS Saturday mornings, well its totally fucked junior numbers.

In closing whether we want to admit it or not we are today in direct competition with soccer for the number 3 code, we are losing the battle. Having 20 year old structures does not help.

 

[James Pettifer]

The Force didn't get the massive extra funding the Rebels have in the past.

The whole point Queensland was so angry at us for years and why we got in trouble a few times was because we literally were told to sort it out.

The Rebels over their life have had far more grants than the Force and initially had more marquee allowances than the other teams.

They can't force players to move to Melbourne and judging by the amount of foundation players in Melbourne compared to the same time in the Force's life they clearly haven't done a good job keeping them, this is on the Rebels.

So what is the reason that the Force is unable to retain their players?

 

[Braveheart81]

Can you guys just stop?

This isn't helping anyone.

 

[Forceright]

So what is the reason that the Force is unable to retain their players?

There are numerous reasons we have lost players - largely due to lack of support from the ARU, and including Dick Graham, Foley - say no more.
However if you're trying to refer to current situation, maybe this will clarify:
WESTERN Force players are putting aside the drama surrounding the club's future and backing their Super Rugby survival.
The Force have 12 players currently contracted for next season or beyond while a further 11 have verbally agreed to new deals.
The Force signed 37 players including their extended player squad this season and expect to make a number of announcements on player recruitment in the next few days.
The ARU lifted a three-month national contracting moratorium two weeks ago.
Meanwhile the Rebels, the other side under threat of extinction, have stepped up their campaign for survival with the ARU confirming the club had given them "notice for mediation".
The Force are going to arbitration with the ARU after serving a writ on the governing body, claiming a clause in their alliance agreement guarantees a side in Perth through the current broadcasting deal that ends in 2020.
The WA Government has backed the club saying it will seek to enforce the agreement terms.
There are reports that the Rebels could pursue the ARU for millions of dollars damages particularly after owner Andrew Cox refused an offer from the governing body to buy the licence back.
It is not yet known when the Rebels hearing will be held but if any decision goes against the ARU they could face the embarrassment of telling SANZAAR they cannot cut their teams from five to four under the plan to shrink the completion from 18 to 15 clubs.
One of the Force players contracted for next season, outside back Curtis Rona, was rumoured to be heading back to the NRL with Wests-Tigers but his management say he has no plans to leave and has his sights firmly on the Wallabies.
Rona's manager Steve Gillis said there had been no discussions about his return to rugby league, he was happy at the Force and was hoping to make the Wallabies squad.
Rona, 25, returned to Perth this season where he started his union career before switching to rugby league.
The former Canterbury Bulldog said he could be open to a return to the NRL but only if the Force is axed from Super Rugby next season.
Winger Luke Morahan and fringe players, outside back Semisi Masirewa and prop Francois van Wyk are the only three to have signed for other clubs next season.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-u...-ng-b88506322z

 

[Leo86]

Can you guys just stop?

This isn't helping anyone.

Agree.

All 5 franchises want it to be 4 franchises. So the ARU has the backing of all states.

The loser here, through short sightedness is rugby and its fans who still (rightly) treat them as teams instead of corporations

 

[James Pettifer]

There are numerous reasons we have lost players - largely due to lack of support from the ARU, and including Dick Graham, Foley - say no more.

I completely agree but I was responding to BLR who was saying that it is the Rebels fault that they keep on losing players and I was wondering whether the same applied to the Force.

I really worry about both the Rebels and Force next year. Hopefully we both survive but I'm not sure what sort of team we will be able to put forward.

 

[Dave Beat]

The Force didn't get the massive extra funding the Rebels have in the past.

The whole point Queensland was so angry at us for years and why we got in trouble a few times was because we literally were told to sort it out.

The Rebels over their life have had far more grants than the Force and initially had more marquee allowances than the other teams.

They can't force players to move to Melbourne and judging by the amount of foundation players in Melbourne compared to the same time in the Force's life they clearly haven't done a good job keeping them, this is on the Rebels.

I cant recall how it all went down, but way back the force bought a whole truck load of talent. Gits / Sharpe / JOC (James O'Connor) / Poey to name a few.

BUT

Why through shite at each other when it isn't others fault - large part of this problem sits with the ARU and at the moment there is allot of silence.

 

[James Pettifer]

Agree.

All 5 franchises want it to be 4 franchises. So the ARU has the backing of all states.

The loser here, through short sightedness is rugby and its fans who still (rightly) treat them as teams instead of corporations

Do all states want 4 franchises? I wasn't aware that the WARU and VRU wanted that. The Rebels apparently do, but they have a different ownership.

The players are also going to lose out. The only winners will be the lawyers.

 

[Killer]

I cant recall how it all went down, but way back the force bought a whole truck load of talent. Gits / Sharpe / JOC (James O'Connor) / Poey to name a few.

BUT

Why through shite at each other when it isn't others fault - large part of this problem sits with the ARU and at the moment there is allot of silence.

Sharpe came over as the inaugural Captain and was hardly a big name,
Gits was a biggish name,
JOC (James O'Connor) and Poey both came through the WF system after coming over as 16yr olds
I think, JOC (James O'Connor) played his first game as a 18yr old and from memory I think Poey got special permission as a 17yr old, not sure exactly.

Edit: if my memory serves me well,
Sharpe came over because he was overlooked for Qld Capt
Gits because he wanted to leave home and the chance to play 10
Neither of them were a Mortlock or Beale at the time (not a reference to the Rebs)
Big names for us those days were anyone that had a starting position in their provincial team, of those that came over when they came over, you could of counted them on one hand.

 

[Quick Hands]

But Australia v Saudi Arabia is now a world cup qualifying game. Compared to a friendly against Fiji.

Fiji has played Australia twice in the past 10 years in Australia bringing 20,000 people in Perth in 2007 and 15,000 people in Canberra in 2010. Australia won those games 49-0 and 49-3.

Australia v Brazil soccer friendly drew 49,974 and we lost 0-4 just last week.

Do you think Australia v Scotland in Sydney on Saturday will draw much more than half of this?

 

[Quick Hands]

A couple things that need to be taken into consideration when looking at this latest 'figures'.

Going back to the 2016 season, the Socceroos had the following match turn outs;
vs Tajikistan - 35,439 (Adelaide)
vs Jordan - 24,975 (Sydney)
vs Iraq - 18,923 (Perth)

Those 175,000 fans they're referring to, includes a match against Argentina AND Brazil. Two of the top teams in the world who have players that many people in Australia follow in the EPL extra. More importantly, it's against Brazil, the top team in the world and one of the most exciting teams to watch.

Excluding those two games, the Socceroos pulled in:
vs UAE - 27,328 (Sydney)
vs Saudi Arabia - 29,785 (Adelaide)

With all that said and done. I am not saying the ARU or Wallabies have anything to worry about, that Union is in any shape in a good spot right now. What I am saying is, cherry picking stats from one off games involving teams we'll never play again doesn't really demonstrate anything. The fact of the matter is, the Socceroos the bar and expectations is set extremely low based on performances on an international level and the 'strength' of the A-League.

Now, Football (soccer) is growing at a healthy rate, they have similar problems to Union. What I am saying is, cherry picking results from either code performing poorly or when they have a good run doesn't really demonstrate anything in the long run. The Wallabies had a solid turn out last year against the Poms but that doesn't seem to come into this equation or discussion.

Yes, butI can remember an Australia v Argentina soccer match at the Sydney Sports ground back in the early 80s when they drew about 15,000 (or less) and the match finished in a flare throwing riot in which police from all over Sydney were called in.

The trend is undeniable - soccer is attracting more supporters to more matches and we're attracting far far fewer as every year goes by.

 

[MarkJ]

The 87 RWC semi-final against France drew a bit under 18,000 at Concord. Rugby crowds have improved a bit since the 80s too.