Where to for Super Rugby?

[andrewM]

Well, all you Force Fans, I 'm sure you've seen The Whole Force's efforts to raise money for Own the Force, RugbyWA Juniors and The Future Force Foundation through our Bumper sticker campaign. If you'd like one, send me a Private Message and I'll send you details on how to get one or two. All but one Premier grade club, and most Championship clubs are participating. Even if the worst happens, all your money will be going towards the future of Rugby in WA and not those scumbags in Sydney

 

[Gnostic]

Have you been going through Bill's waste paper basket Gnostic?

No I thought I might try one of those Intern Jobs. I'm trying to give up the dumpster diving.

 

[The torpedo]

No I thought I might try one of those Intern Jobs. I'm trying to give up the dumpster diving.

Taking inspiration from a Special One, I presume?

 

[A mutterer]

and not those scumbags in Sydney

hey the tahs fans LIKE you lot.

its the bloody mexicans that we don't like

 

[andrewM]

OK, I'll be more specific...

ARU scumbags in St Leonards

 

[RedsHappy]

It's been reported in the Rebels' thread but worth also noting in this one:

- sources report to The Australian that the Rebels have definitely now commenced robust formal legal proceedings against the ARU for 'millions' of $s in damages over the 'cut or cull' assertion made vs the Rebels and the alleged consequential damages the Rebels have suffered as a result, and, as follows in the same report:

- the first major step in that process will be formally required arbitration proceedings (which makes sense as in the disputes provisions of many such contracts, if the dispute cannot be amicably resolved within X period, forced arbitration is the next formally required step)

- Rebels very happy with cull of Super teams back to 4 so long as not them affected (tends to imply they are convinced Force will be the cullee)

- allegedly many Force players have signed event-contingent contracts to join the Rebels in 2018 if the Force is the final cullee in 2017

- Rebels also adding damages claim re ARU's April 2017 revelation that 'from 2011 we had real doubts re the commercial etc viability of 5 Super teams' and where this key concern was not revealed to the Rebels' buyers in 2015 upon their licence acquisition from the ARU

As I have said before here, IMO the Rebels have an excellent prima facie chance of being successful in a large damages claim v the ARU as they have obviously suffered very material damage as a result of the April 10 ARU announcement asserting the ARU had rights to cull the Rebels or Force within 3 days of that announcement (assuming that is that in fact the ARU - as Cox alleges - definitively possessed no such legal rights to cull the Rebels in the manner that the ARU announced).

 

[One eyed pirate]

Hello Matthew, not having played at professional level, my unqualified opinion is that one team's poor performance cannot be used to excuse another.

Absolutely agree but it's clear NZ is a cut above everyone else at the moment. Matthew Burke and Giteau said the same over the weekend.


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[The torpedo]

It's been reported in the Rebels' thread but worth also noting in this one:

- sources report to The Australian that the Rebels have definitely now commenced robust formal legal proceedings against the ARU for 'millions' of $s in damages over the 'cut or cull' assertion made vs the Rebels and the alleged consequential damages the Rebels have suffered as a result, and, as follows in the same report:

- the first major step in that process will be formally required arbitration proceedings (which makes sense as in the disputes provisions of many such contracts, if the dispute cannot be amicably resolved within X period, forced arbitration is the next formally required step)

- Rebels very happy with cull of Super teams back to 4 so long as not them affected (tends to imply they are convinced Force will be the cullee)

- allegedly many Force players have signed event-contingent contracts to join the Rebels in 2018 if the Force is the final cullee in 2017

- Rebels also adding damages claim re ARU's April 2017 revelation that 'from 2011 we had real doubts re the commercial etc viability of 5 Super teams' and where this key concern was not revealed to the Rebels' buyers in 2015 upon their licence acquisition from the ARU

As I have said before here, IMO the Rebels have an excellent prima facie chance of being successful in a large damages claim v the ARU as they have obviously suffered very material damage as a result of the April 10 ARU announcement asserting the ARU had rights to cull the Rebels or Force within 3 days of that announcement (assuming that is that in fact the ARU - as Cox alleges - definitively possessed no such legal rights to cull the Rebels in the manner that the ARU announced).

RH, do you know what's happening with the clause guaranteeing the Force's participation in Super Rugby until 2020?

Because if that clause if still in place, I reckon they would have a very good shot at attaining similar amounts of damages if they also instigate legal proceedings

 

[refugee]

Say both clubs are successful in their claims , including damages where does that leave the ARU. Can it go broke and if so what does that do for Sanzar

 

[I like to watch]

C'mon Bill, you know what the right course of action is..
And no, it does not not include a golden parachute.

 

[Strewthcobber]

RH, do you know what's happening with the clause guaranteeing the Force's participation in Super Rugby until 2020?

Because if that clause if still in place, I reckon they would have a very good shot at attaining similar amounts of damages if they also instigate legal proceedings

WA rugby aren't incurring any losses from the process at the moment though right? The ARU are funding the team and incorporating any revenue into the national accounts.

WAR might have a chance of keeping the team in the comp using legal means but I'd think it unlikely that they'd be able to claim any damages1

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[Quick Hands]

C'mon Bill, you know what the right course of action is..
And no, it does not not include a golden parachute.

 

[wamberal]

I am stunned at the attitude of supposed lovers of the game who can think of nothing better than the ARU losing heaps of money in a damages claim by the Rebels.

Turkeys and Christmas.

 

[dru]

I am stunned at the attitude of supposed lovers of the game who can think of nothing better than the ARU losing heaps of money in a damages claim by the Rebels.

Turkeys and Christmas.

Not sure where we go though Wamberal. It's not that I disagree, just think you are ignoring the context. For plenty, it'a a fiction to suggest that the ARU have done, jeez I dont know, just anything, positive, for Australian rugby in 2017.

And that is being very constrained.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am stunned at the attitude of supposed lovers of the game who can think of nothing better than the ARU losing heaps of money in a damages claim by the Rebels.

Turkeys and Christmas.

Going broke saved soccer in Australia - they had to go to the government for a bail out but they had to reform their administration and structure before the dollars came.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Going broke saved soccer in Australia - they had to go to the government for a bail out but they had to reform their administration and structure before the dollars came.

And sell their souls to Westfield.
We have a similar type of dynastic succession without the bail out.

 

[p.Tah]

I am stunned at the attitude of supposed lovers of the game who can think of nothing better than the ARU losing heaps of money in a damages claim by the Rebels.

Turkeys and Christmas.

I've been very supportive of 5 teams, but:
-Melbourne fans boycotting the test which reduces the money that can go to funding the game
- the Rebels now wanting to sue the ARU for millions

Melbourne may be the only place rugby has a pro team team soon.

 

[Boomer]

Signings coming, by the dozen. Well done.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-union/players-put-faith-in-western-forces-survival-ng-b88506322z


Players put faith in Western Force’s survival

Nick Taylor
Tuesday, 13 June 2017 5:02PM

WESTERN Force players are putting aside the drama surrounding the club's future and backing their Super Rugby survival.

The Force have 12 players currently contracted for next season or beyond while a further 11 have verbally agreed to new deals.

The Force signed 37 players including their extended player squad this season and expect to make a number of announcements on player recruitment in the next few days.

The ARU lifted a three-month national contracting moratorium two weeks ago.

Meanwhile the Rebels, the other side under threat of extinction, have stepped up their campaign for survival with the ARU confirming the club had given them "notice for mediation".

The Force are going to arbitration with the ARU after serving a writ on the governing body, claiming a clause in their alliance agreement guarantees a side in Perth through the current broadcasting deal that ends in 2020.

The WA Government has backed the club saying it will seek to enforce the agreement terms.

There are reports that the Rebels could pursue the ARU for millions of dollars damages particularly after owner Andrew Cox refused an offer from the governing body to buy the licence back.

It is not yet known when the Rebels hearing will be held but if any decision goes against the ARU they could face the embarrassment of telling SANZAAR they cannot cut their teams from five to four under the plan to shrink the completion from 18 to 15 clubs.

One of the Force players contracted for next season, outside back Curtis Rona, was rumoured to be heading back to the NRL with Wests-Tigers but his management say he has no plans to leave and has his sights firmly on the Wallabies.

Rona's manager Steve Gillis said there had been no discussions about his return to rugby league, he was happy at the Force and was hoping to make the Wallabies squad.

Rona, 25, returned to Perth this season where he started his union career before switching to rugby league.

The former Canterbury Bulldog said he could be open to a return to the NRL but only if the Force is axed from Super Rugby next season.

Winger Luke Morahan and fringe players, outside back Semisi Masirewa and prop Francois van Wyk are the only three to have signed for other clubs next season.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I've been very supportive of 5 teams, but:
-Melbourne fans boycotting the test which reduces the money that can go to funding the game
- the Rebels now wanting to sue the ARU for millions

Melbourne may be the only place rugby has a pro team team soon.

Presumably cox boght the Rebels in an arms length transaction.
It's not entirely clear that the ARU had a duty to tell him their views about viability of a 5 team set up.
They had no major sponsor before any of this broke and they've never been big hitters in the market for talented players at the peak of their powers, so it's not easy to see what opportunities they've lost as a result of being identified as potentially for the gallows.

 

[James Pettifer]

Presumably cox boght the Rebels in an arms length transaction.
It's not entirely clear that the ARU had a duty to tell him their views about viability of a 5 team set up.
They had no major sponsor before any of this broke and they've never been big hitters in the market for talented players at the peak of their powers, so it's not easy to see what opportunities they've lost as a result of being identified as potentially for the gallows.

I doubt that it would have been an arms length transaction. The ARU are completely involved in so many aspects of the Rebels that I can't see them getting away with some of their statements.

It is also pretty hard to be a big hitter in the market for talented players when the top up processes is fundamentally unbalanced.

I think a strong case can be put forward for the reduction in crowds of which a large part happened after the April 48-72 hours notice. In addition, the team has been unable to sign a new coach or, until recently, been able to sign any players which will significantly impact their performance in future years and thus future profits. At this point, I don't think they have enough players signed to play a match

I hope that it is settled out of court and that Cox settles for what he wants in intangible benefits instead of just money like
- total player payments provided by the ARU to be consistent across teams instead of the Waratahs being able to have a team funded by the ARU worth $7.6 million team against teams at $5.1 and $5.2 million (Rebels and Force)
- removal of restrictions on overseas players
- removal of the salary cap
- guarantee of the team being around till the end of the contract period (probably have some clear exit arrangement from the ARU to get around any thing they might pull)
- an apology for stuffing around
- Sean McMahon to get a better top up and stay at the Rebels