The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Couldn't agree more BR. Australian rugby is comically bad right now.
Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
Glad to see the extra 3mill the ARU throw at the tahs has paid off
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
It's such a mess, I barely know where to start. I actually think that rugby administration in Australia is so dysfunctional, that we need to start again.
Obviously we need a national governing body, I'd get rid of the state unions completely (for the reasons that Reds Happy indicated in one of his many excellent posts). They are completely dependent in financial terms on the ARU, and I can't see any logical reason for running the sport on the basis of 19th century colonial borders.
Broadly speaking, I'd follow the RFU model, where clubs affiliate directly to the governing body. The RFU manage to centrally run the game in England, where there are many more players and clubs than we have here. They group their clubs regionally into what they call "Constituent Bodies", each with different levels of amateur competitions and juniors. (You could just as easily call them regions). Each region has an RFU academy. The French FFR follows a similar model. The governing body gives support to all regions and clubs on a needs basis. No special treatement for anyone.
If the public statements of the ARU are correct, then we have 5 super rugby franchises, at least two of which have independent and different participation agreements with the ARU. For all we know, all 5 may have differing participation agreements. How is this fair? How can this be a good way to run a sport?
(As an aside, the current "process" to cut an Australian team from super rugby is a classic example of what is wrong with rugby administration in Australia. Assuming for a moment that the ARU is correct in it's desire to go from 5 teams to 4 - why are any teams deemed to be "safe" without any criteria whatsoever being applied to them? They're just safe. What a complete joke of a "process". Any competent administration would put a number of objective criteria in place, and then measured each team against the criteria. Straight away there are natural justice issues, before we even get to contractual obligations.)
I also think that while the board obviously needs corporate experience, that there also needs to be people on there who have a different perspective on life and on rugby. As Reds Happy has ably illustrated, our administrators and board members are drawn from an extremely narrow section of society, and with or without realising it they have become a self-perpetuating oligarchy where no one actually stands for an election to gain office. Appointments are either filled as casual vacancies by the board, or the board arranges for it's preferred candidates to be the only ones standing. Nothing can or will change while this occurs.
I think that significant progress has been made in both Melbourne and Perth, particularly in terms of junior and youth development. (Albeit at significant cost - but to what extent are the actions and omissions of the ARU responsible for the quantum of the cost???) The performances of the Reds and the Waratahs would indicate that the Rebels and the Force aren't as bad as some would like to portray them.
I've come to the view that the only way forward for rugby in Australia is to get out of super rugby. Go back to SANZAAR and say, "we'll make this easy for you to go back to Super 12. Cut all 5 of our teams and then you guys decide, where the 6th team goes from."
Then put all of our resources into a longer and better resourced NRC.
Help clubs (not with cash handouts), rather than insult and ignore then. The game is shrinking, we all need to be working with a unified purpose, not slagging off at some other competition or region on the basis of historic jealousy, or parochial prejudice. If the game in club land (at junior, subbies and grade levels) continues to shrink, there won't be an elite game - we'll have the Wallabies and all the national players will be based overseas.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
That's about as good a solution as I've seen QH. I don't really have a lot to add.
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Rock Bottom has a basement after today!
Having just got home from the SFS.. a very long session with the doctor in Paddington was the only solution after the game.
That was f*&n disgraceful.
No gameplay, thousands of unpressured handling errors. most of the points from low percentage plays.
On the back of that performance the Tahs should hand in their license voluntarily
That was f*&n disgraceful.
No gameplay, thousands of unpressured handling errors. most of the points from low percentage plays.
On the back of that performance the Tahs should hand in their license voluntarily
L
Leo86
Guest
We need a governing body thats first priority is rugby and not their self preservation. We need a body that should be called the Aru (intentional capital A) looking after Australian Rugby Union. Not what we have now.
We need centralisation.
We need a body that is love/passion/sport not profit. As in yeh Japan will give us money, but one that thinks how about we represent Australia as a whole and if it aint working we will pull our fingers out and make it work.
Your right all 5 teams should be under the microscope... (3 full stops which dont show up for some reason)... 2 teams which obviously never would of faced the axe in the end but the scrutiny may of sorted some shit out. Alas our governing body face planted the floor. Why fix the sport to benefit it when we can sell ourselves out.
Ive stated here or at twf that no Western Force will be no rugby union/foxtel/wallabies test. Reason being not spite, but really what point. Im loyal and passionate, take away my team you take away my heart. (11 year member, every game of RWC 2003 but Eng V SA, 2008 bledisoe sydney which we won, every test in perth since 2003, NRC matches) not at all saying Rebels fans and others dont share my passion. But if we had to leave super rugby as Quick Hands said. Well then i am 100% behind it and back on board. The Aru representing Australia what a sight to see and a code for the people, sign me up
We need centralisation.
We need a body that is love/passion/sport not profit. As in yeh Japan will give us money, but one that thinks how about we represent Australia as a whole and if it aint working we will pull our fingers out and make it work.
Your right all 5 teams should be under the microscope... (3 full stops which dont show up for some reason)... 2 teams which obviously never would of faced the axe in the end but the scrutiny may of sorted some shit out. Alas our governing body face planted the floor. Why fix the sport to benefit it when we can sell ourselves out.
Ive stated here or at twf that no Western Force will be no rugby union/foxtel/wallabies test. Reason being not spite, but really what point. Im loyal and passionate, take away my team you take away my heart. (11 year member, every game of RWC 2003 but Eng V SA, 2008 bledisoe sydney which we won, every test in perth since 2003, NRC matches) not at all saying Rebels fans and others dont share my passion. But if we had to leave super rugby as Quick Hands said. Well then i am 100% behind it and back on board. The Aru representing Australia what a sight to see and a code for the people, sign me up
T
TOCC
Guest
My mates in Brissie, long term die hard Rugby Union supporters, asked if I wanted to go to the Bledisloe for $90, and then laughed and said who would waste their money on that, said they've lost faith in Australian Rugby
NSW vs QLD this weekend, I remember when this game used to be a blockbuster, big crowds and ratings, used to get plenty of news coverage... now, no one gives a shit
It's incredible how far this game has fallen...
NSW vs QLD this weekend, I remember when this game used to be a blockbuster, big crowds and ratings, used to get plenty of news coverage... now, no one gives a shit
It's incredible how far this game has fallen...
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
Unfortunately the other problem with Aus rugby is shown there TOCC, die hard rugby supporters from anywhere are out there supporting their team anyway, I have followed club teams etc all my life and some of them have been absolutely dire at times, but have always still supported and been there watching and cheering for them. Although I can understand where they coming from it can be bloody hard!
mark_s
Chilla Wilson (44)
For the AUS super teams, I'm blaming the coaching, at super and national level. Our players ain't that bad, atleast their better than the results their getting. Waratahs defence is a case in point, but all teams have similar weaknesses. Not sure what the answer is. We need strong confident coaches that can blow out this complacency. I think he problem has been exacerbated by the drain of senior players Europe, who would have added to to the on field leadership.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
People still follow their club teams Dan. I'll be at Manly Oval this afternoon and there'll be 3 or 4 thousand there. All over the country other rugby people will be doing the same whether it's subbies, grade or country areas. There's still plenty of die-hard rugby supporters out there, it's just that many have become completely disconnected from the professional game - in particular super rugby.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Unfortunately, in the history of decaying institutions racked by incompetence and self-interest, as the evidence of their leadership's gross unsuitability magnifies and deepens, the last thing that ever happens in a logical sequence is any attempt at meaningful self-reform.
Rather, the crisis deepens, the costs of and damages from it increases, and those responsible become frozen in denial, pomposity and self-pity.
When change comes it only comes with a final catacyclismic lurch into a state of undeniable disaster, and only then is there a possibility that real change can begin and the irresponsible perpetrators replaced and removed forever.
The tragedy though is that so much earth is scorched by then and so much damage done, there may never be a path back, or enough resources available for a viable re-birth.
Rather, the crisis deepens, the costs of and damages from it increases, and those responsible become frozen in denial, pomposity and self-pity.
When change comes it only comes with a final catacyclismic lurch into a state of undeniable disaster, and only then is there a possibility that real change can begin and the irresponsible perpetrators replaced and removed forever.
The tragedy though is that so much earth is scorched by then and so much damage done, there may never be a path back, or enough resources available for a viable re-birth.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Re Alan Jones
Whatever one's personal views about him, in his interview with the hapless Clyne, he posed what for me was perhaps the most searingly powerful question+observation re the appallingly low quality of rugby governance and leadership in Australia over (at least) the last decade, namely:
'The ARU, over the last decade, has spent a total of $777,000,000. What have you got to show for it?'
Whatever one's personal views about him, in his interview with the hapless Clyne, he posed what for me was perhaps the most searingly powerful question+observation re the appallingly low quality of rugby governance and leadership in Australia over (at least) the last decade, namely:
'The ARU, over the last decade, has spent a total of $777,000,000. What have you got to show for it?'
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
^^^^ @QH
So much to applaud in your long post above (and too there are many other really good ideas re the future of Australian rugby in this thread).
With your broad concept for radical reform of Australian rugby, with most of the Super broadcast income gone (some though would be replaced), the concomitant derivative of this is of course the near-total deconstruction of the high cost base ARU and its heavily subsidised kids, the poorly run State RUs and their yet further overheads.
These of necessity to be wholly replaced by one very lean national body with equally lean State support groups.
A new kickstarter investment would be required to do this but IMO the Force's new model for local ownership and fund raising could well be an even bigger success if repeated nationally and in the cause of saving from extinction our great code in this great country.
Give the code back to the people that love the game - it would have huge resonance.
So much to applaud in your long post above (and too there are many other really good ideas re the future of Australian rugby in this thread).
With your broad concept for radical reform of Australian rugby, with most of the Super broadcast income gone (some though would be replaced), the concomitant derivative of this is of course the near-total deconstruction of the high cost base ARU and its heavily subsidised kids, the poorly run State RUs and their yet further overheads.
These of necessity to be wholly replaced by one very lean national body with equally lean State support groups.
A new kickstarter investment would be required to do this but IMO the Force's new model for local ownership and fund raising could well be an even bigger success if repeated nationally and in the cause of saving from extinction our great code in this great country.
Give the code back to the people that love the game - it would have huge resonance.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
So, what is the circuit breaker that will bring the current shambles to an end and start to institute a replacement model for running the code in this country?
Can't see a fan revolt being successful. Not enough cohesion amongst the various groups or a leadership group to drag the rest of us along. In any case, the dire crowds at games don't seem to have much effect on the people at the top, other than probably to reinforce their view that one of the franchises has to be cut.
I think the only body with the influence to bring about real change is probably Fox. There must come a time, the way things are going, that they just walk away from the current arrangements. That would certainly bring about the demise of Aus participation in Super Rugby and perhaps with it the dismantling of the current structures running the game. In that event, I hope that Fox or another body is able to establish an alternative structure based on good commercial footings to revive and run the game into the future - a bit like the split and regeneration of cricket under WSC and the ARL to NRL conversion.
Can't see a fan revolt being successful. Not enough cohesion amongst the various groups or a leadership group to drag the rest of us along. In any case, the dire crowds at games don't seem to have much effect on the people at the top, other than probably to reinforce their view that one of the franchises has to be cut.
I think the only body with the influence to bring about real change is probably Fox. There must come a time, the way things are going, that they just walk away from the current arrangements. That would certainly bring about the demise of Aus participation in Super Rugby and perhaps with it the dismantling of the current structures running the game. In that event, I hope that Fox or another body is able to establish an alternative structure based on good commercial footings to revive and run the game into the future - a bit like the split and regeneration of cricket under WSC and the ARL to NRL conversion.
S
sidelineview
Guest
RedsHappy and QH for positions on the new board.
Right on.
The game belongs to the people, not the self- entitled elite but how does one manage to dump the current lot of administrators aka F Troop?
That's either a rhetorical question or the cause of another insightful post.
Right on.
The game belongs to the people, not the self- entitled elite but how does one manage to dump the current lot of administrators aka F Troop?
That's either a rhetorical question or the cause of another insightful post.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Agree. Although I do feel sorry for Clyne in that he's landed in the middle of this and much of it is not of his making. It's a bit like being made captain of the Titanic an hour after it hit the iceberg. His main role should be to get as much in the lifeboats as possible.
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