Where to for Super Rugby?

[Dan54]

There is room for 2 products. At this point I get the commercials of a TT so for me if can make TT work for us I think both Super Rugby AU (with fiji added) then TT right way to go. If TT gets too tricky and can't make it work for us we expand our domestic comp and look at champions league style series with kiwis maybe,

Kiwi's have mitre 10 which they fit in - we don't have this with NRC gone hence room to accommodate Super Rugby AU even if shortened - cut down version as not fighting need to give TT a go, but just rather to try and fit in and retain our short domestic comp which if keep short and as lead into TT think will avoid it getting stale.

Yep can see the attraction, I can see the short sharp working. I still only guessing what I think will work, and I know day after a great final I can see why a lot will want to keep it exactly like it is too. I tend to look at how I think we can inprove comp, and see merit in your idea. I just hope noone thinks, hell we had a great crowd etc and rugby is back so we onto winner just like it is. One sell out crowd of the year to me doesn't make it properly successful. I keep remembering what crowds I have seen in Sydney and Melbourne this year, also remember just a few years back when soccer were hosting sell out crowds when some team from Sydney came through and won comp, all was rosey except it wasn't rosey for long!
I personally would love to see (if rugby is on a real high as we hope) a proper domestic comp in Aus you know NRC type thing, and really expand the game, and use Super or whatever it is called as a top end comp. Rugby is really only doing well when we see good crowds at most of games, noy just at final. We have been there before with Super rugby, and managed right it can still be one of premier club comps in world.
I know that is what Leap Frog reckons is what has happened to Super, it became a domestic and not high end.

 

[Dan54]

It’s only an 8 game 10 round comp, so it’s not like you’re playing the same team over a 6 month period. 5 teams is fine for a short form comp.

I can see there is growing support for SRAU. Having multiple trophies on offer in a season is amazing for fan engagement. Rugby in Europe has it and we can all see how that’s doing and the worlds most successful sport has it.

European model works great, but they don't try a 5 team comp, even Wales, Scotland and Ireland etc combine to have a second tier comp, or otherwise they also would be flogging a 5 team comp. And also they mix it in with higher level comp to keep things humming, they don't finish one comp before next but play both at same time, works bloody well.

 

[Adam84]

It’s a no brainer, keep them seperate, play Super Rugby AU first and then Trans Tasman following.

Gives Australian Rugby greater control of it’s own destiny as well, which is a massive factor after the events of 2020.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It’s a no brainer, keep them seperate, play Super Rugby AU first and then Trans Tasman following.

Gives Australian Rugby greater control of it’s own destiny as well, which is a massive factor after the events of 2020.

Yep. We should be looking to essentially market it as the BBL for Rugby. Relatively short but action packed. Then use the TT as a champions league set up.

 

[Adam84]

Yep. We should be looking to essentially market it as the BBL for Rugby. Relatively short but action packed. Then use the TT as a champions league set up.

Absolutely, and in time they then expand/increase the number of teams in the champions league as they see fit, include Japan teams or whoever else and it doesn’t impact on the core Super Rugby AU competition.

 

[Rebels3]

Absolutely, and in time they then expand/increase the number of teams in the champions league as they see fit, include Japan teams or whoever else and it doesn’t impact on the core Super Rugby AU competition.

You’re talking wayyyy to much sense

 

[Rebels3]

Absolutely, and in time they then expand/increase the number of teams in the champions league as they see fit, include Japan teams or whoever else and it doesn’t impact on the core Super Rugby AU competition.

And then as an example in 10yrs time we get to the point where financially we can afford another team, they can start in SRAU until they find their feet and then compete in the other comps.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It’s only an 8 game 10 round comp, so it’s not like you’re playing the same team over a 6 month period. 5 teams is fine for a short form comp.

I can see there is growing support for SRAU. Having multiple trophies on offer in a season is amazing for fan engagement. Rugby in Europe has it and we can all see how that’s doing and the worlds most successful sport has it.

and a way to differentiate ourselves from league and AFL who don't have the opportunity to do both domestic and TT product

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Thats a longer term concern, but for the time being its better to consolidate the increasingly positive wider media narrative around Australian teams winning that will draw more casual fans the game. In the meantime we can supplement this with post season games against NZ to keep the format fresh.

Also when we want to add more teams, it will be a hell of a lot easier because: (A) RA doesn't need New Zealand to sign off on it and (B) we don't need to worry about how competitive new teams will be against Kiwi teams.



Its literally happened multiple times in the past few years and it basically completely killed interest for Super Rugby in Australia. Plus you can't guarantee it won't happen in the future, which was my main point. We can't rely on Australian teams never going through a dry patch to keep the sport alive.



Your average fan does not know or care how hard it is to win a competition, they only know if Australian teams are winning. The Reds are getting the most media and fan attention in years because they're winning. Maybe the die-hards will care more if we win a Trans-Tasman comp but for 90% of viewers a Grand-Final is a Grand-Final. Plus for the die-hards they can look forward to us winning a post-season trans-tasman cup if we're able. Best of both worlds.

As a final point, my main problem with a solely trans-tasman competition is that were spending half the season playing against teams from places your average Australian barely know exist, let alone care about.

NSW-Queensland has an inbuilt rivalry that anyone here can get around.

NSW-Waikato, not so much.

There's a reason every single successful sporting league in the world is domestic 1st, international 2nd. Its because it works.

You have summed up so well why there is no other logic but to keep Super Rugby Au and surely the broadcasters and RA with success of getting back fans with ratings achieved this season and 42k attending GF game is all they need to know to see this. Keep it as its current short form format of 5 (maybe 6) teams and then follow with TT or champions league. Point is we know the SUper Rugby AU is working so don't change what ain't broke especially after a lot of broken super rugby formats got us to where we were pre COVID. No problem to then follow this with trying to create a successful TT product and then if this does not work - no problem we still have the successful super rugby product where we can either expand or try another product to put alongside it (e.g. Champions League). RA finally has a product that is growing in interest, re-engaging fans and achieving record growth in ratings for under new broadcast deal, so RA is going to walk away from its first successful product after years of failed declining products and new products such as Super Rugby and NRC.....surely not.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You have summed up so well why there is no other logic but to keep Super Rugby Au and surely the broadcasters and RA with success of getting back fans with ratings achieved this season and 42k attending GF game is all they need to know to see this. Keep it as its current short form format of 5 (maybe 6) teams and then follow with TT or champions league. Point is we know the SUper Rugby AU is working so don't change what ain't broke especially after a lot of broken super rugby formats got us to where we were pre COVID. No problem to then follow this with trying to create a successful TT product and then if this does not work - no problem we still have the successful super rugby product where we can either expand or try another product to put alongside it (Champions League). RA finally has a product that is growing in interest, re-engaging fans and achieving record growth in ratings for under new broadcast deal, so RA is going to walk away from its first successful product after years of failed declining products and new products such as Super Rugby and NRC...surely not.

And just imagine how successful Super Rugby AU could be if they fix the Tahs and Sydney pro problem (lot of things to fix there which is improved performance, fan re-engagement, having a clear home ground then being travelling hillbillys etc)

 

[Adam84]

And just imagine how successful Super Rugby AU could be if they fix the Tahs and Sydney pro problem (lot of things to fix there which is improved performance, fan re-engagement, having a clear home ground then being travelling hillbillys etc)

It’s certainly an easier fix within a Super Rugby AU tournament, before the additional rigours of an international tournament with travel etc.

I think the Super Rugby AU shortens the gap in terms of development for teams, just look how far the Force and Tahs have come since the start of the season. Clearly still well short of where they want to be, but I don’t think they would have had the same development in a straight Trans Tasman tournament.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It’s certainly an easier fix within a Super Rugby AU tournament, before the additional rigours of an international tournament with travel etc.

I think the Super Rugby AU shortens the gap in terms of development for teams, just look how far the Force and Tahs have come since the start of the season. Clearly still well short of where they want to be, but I don’t think they would have had the same development in a straight Trans Tasman tournament.

Yeh as still biggest crowd for super rugby game in oz was Tahs vs Crusaders 2014 final which I was at which had 62k (and hence if we can fix tahs what sort of impact can have) - btw Reds vs Crusaders 2011 final had 52k crowd so given where rugby has been to get 42k to the final was a massive achievement

 

[dru]

While I have been, and remain, a staunch supporter of the domestic comp - even if it were necessary in the absence of playing Kiwi clubs at all - I must say I am looking forward to the TT.

I think adding the Drua to Aus domestic comp is fab though I do think there will be issues, especially in Sydney. Just don't hitch our autonomy to the NZRU. Integrate and connect sure. But do not get locked in to Kiwi decision making impacting Aus rugby.

But I'm still looking forward to the TT. I'll be barracking heavily for the Force (as well as the Reds!) and interested to see how the Kiwis cope.

 

[Joe King]

While I have been, and remain, a staunch supporter of the domestic comp - even if it were necessary in the absence of playing Kiwi clubs at all - I must say I am looking forward to the TT.

I think adding the Drua to Aus domestic comp is fab though I do think there will be issues, especially in Sydney. Just don't hitch our autonomy to the NZRU. Integrate and connect sure. But do not get locked in to Kiwi decision making impacting Aus rugby.

But I'm still looking forward to the TT. I'll be barracking heavily for the Force (as well as the Reds!) and interested to see how the Kiwis cope.

I am too, and I think it's because of Super Rugby AU. Super Rugby TT is much more exciting as a post-season comp because its mysterious and interesting.

I think combining Super Rugby AU/Super Rugby Ao with Super Rugby TT would become less than the sum of all its parts.

 

[dru]

I am too, and I think it's because of Super Rugby AU. Super Rugby TT is much more exciting as a post-season comp because its mysterious and interesting.

I think combining Super Rugby AU/Super Rugby Ao with Super Rugby TT would become less than the sum of all its parts.

Absolutely. I've seen some comments suggesting that the Super Ao final was much higher quality than Reds v Brumbies. It's not at all what I saw. That Final was the only NZ game I've watched all year and I was thinking "is that all they've got?" Probably wishful thinking, but I am looking forward to the TT.

 

[Joe King]

The worst thing that can happen to Australian rugby now is to get rid of Super Rugby AU and replace it with a full season TT where 2-3 Australian teams sit at the bottom of the table for the whole season. That is a very, very realistic possibility. And not just for one season, but season after season.

I just hope RA don't lock in a full season TT before this year's Super Rugby TT is over. I think it will be quite revealing and give us some insight into what a full season TT would be like.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I think we would be better off with both super rugby AU competition AND TT if the latter can be designed appropriately. To me that design would be having teams able to select players from other TT comp countries involved and still able to represent their national team. Latter does not seem likely so let’s just see how we go with what is proposed.

 

[Dan54]

I think we would be better off with both super rugby AU competition AND TT if the latter can be designed appropriately. To me that design would be having teams able to select players from other TT comp countries involved and still able to represent their national team. Latter does not seem likely so let’s just see how we go with what is proposed.

So do you no longer think a TT should be run by an independant board? If it is it will be run to make comp best it can not to suit either NZR or RA. So if it decides that the best comp is a 10 or 12 team comp however it is would you suggest RA pulls out?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

So do you no longer think a TT should be run by an independant board? If it is it will be run to make comp best it can not to suit either NZR or RA. So if it decides that the best comp is a 10 or 12 team comp however it is would you suggest RA pulls out?

No absolutely should be run by independent board - that is really precursor to achieving best outcome for competition and the region rather than nzru and RA competing interests and agendas.

 

[Dan54]

No absolutely should be run by independent board - that is really precursor to achieving best outcome for competition and the region rather than nzru and RA competing interests and agendas.

Agree with that so much, and hence uper Au or Ao are more unlikely. I actually would feel better if it was operating now and they were doing work on MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua being able to join.