Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

If there is no Au comp before a full Super Rugby then I say it is a big, big mistake from RA.

I also think it will turn out that hiring Andy Marinos will be looked back upon as having selected reverse gear.

To me paragraph below sums up how RA will be held to a TT designed and run for NZ rugby interests - not Australian Rugby interests. Whats the bet they push the shrink oz participation to 3 sides BS next year. I agree it is high risk to dump what has been a successful Super Rugby AU competition and their are ways to keep it by cutting it back to say a six nations one round no finals type comp. Keep it in the mix as insurance in case TT turns pare shaped for oz rugby interests. Btw I like kiwi's and kiwi rugby players but just don't trust one inch NZRU to shaft and damage oz rugby interests by being involved in a competition they hold the puppet strings over.

Speaking to reporters on Friday, however, Marinos said it was proving difficult to get an accurate picture of the bids’ progress and that the competitiveness of the sides had been a concern.
“It's a difficult question to answer because all the detailed information is not coming through us, it is going through NZ Rugby," Marinos said.

 

[Dan54]

To me paragraph below sums up how RA will be held to a TT designed and run for NZ rugby interests - not Australian Rugby interests. Whats the bet they push the shrink oz participation to 3 sides BS next year. I agree it is high risk to dump what has been a successful Super Rugby AU competition and their are ways to keep it by cutting it back to say a six nations one round no finals type comp. Keep it in the mix as insurance in case TT turns pare shaped for oz rugby interests. Btw I like kiwi's and kiwi rugby players but just don't trust one inch NZRU to shaft and damage oz rugby interests by being involved in a competition they hold the puppet strings over.

Speaking to reporters on Friday, however, Marinos said it was proving difficult to get an accurate picture of the bids’ progress and that the competitiveness of the sides had been a concern.
“It's a difficult question to answer because all the detailed information is not coming through us, it is going through NZ Rugby," Marinos said.

Or more likely that only one Rugby board is talking to them at moment, because it would be easier for all concerned for just one board to do the work, much like and committee when you delegate one person to check work out details, I took it as RA saying it your idea you do the work we will sign off if we want.

“Obviously, we appreciate it's a New Zealand-led initiative so while some information has come through as to their state of readiness when the announcement was made, that's been well documented.
“But going forward we wait to see if all the boxes can be ticked and if they are that will give us a greater sense of comfort that they are going to be able to stand themselves up.”


Just reading this again, and Tahs must be a bit worried if what Marinos says is right, and competitveness is one of the criteria
Marinos said it was proving difficult to get an accurate picture of the bids’ progress and that the competitiveness of the sides had been a concern.

Don't worry RN , I taking the urine !

 

[Members Section]

To be fair to the new sides I think its a bit rich from RA saying we are not in a rush. These sides need to start Signing players/coaches/staff ect

 

[Rebel man]

If there is no Au comp before a full Super Rugby then I say it is a big, big mistake from RA.

I also think it will turn out that hiring Andy Marinos will be looked back upon as having selected reverse gear.

Super Rugby AU was good as a stopgap but we need to return to a proper competition

 

[sendit]

So keen to see the Brumbies and Reds take on the Crusaders, Chiefs and Blues. Very interested to see how we measure up

 

[hifflepiff]

Not sure how true this is, but if it is could be full TT comp from next year.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...has-concerns-about-moana-pasifika-fijian-drua


Personally I still think it way to go, I have said before I think while the 5 team comps have been good, they staring to wear a bit thin, and as we get back to a more normal landscape re sports and covid, it may just fade quite a bit . And if RA looking at getting PE involved , they have to give them an attractive package I imagine. Could be wrong (I have known to be) but believe it the better option.

Disappointing if true. Whilst games against the Kiwis are great as a post-domestic comp, it should never be our bread and butter.

Australians want Australian teams that win games and trophies, and I don't think we should put all our eggs in a basket where that's not guaranteed.

All it takes is one season where Australian teams don't win any games (god forbid it happens in a year where RA need to negotiate a broadcasting deal) and we'll find ourselves right back in the media and cultural shitter we've slowly been pulling ourselves out of.

 

[hifflepiff]

If there is no Au comp before a full Super Rugby then I say it is a big, big mistake from RA.

I also think it will turn out that hiring Andy Marinos will be looked back upon as having selected reverse gear.

After years of failure, mismanagement and a slow descent into irrelevance, a global pandemic forces RA to fall arse first into a successful format.

Marinos: OK, let's go back to what wasn't working before!

 

[TheHaydog]

Does anyone else see the Reds carrying on crowd size momentum if they win the final?. It seems in advance at least, like they'll crack 40K for the final which is great.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Super Rugby AU was good as a stopgap but we need to return to a proper competition

Agreed but as I said I think sensible to have short form six nations style one round super rugby AU competition as lead in as a) insurance policy b) generates more product and content to aid broadcast deal commercials and c) guarantees one local oz side winner each year d) good preparation for trans taman e) proven domestic comp works so low risk f) could be evolved to something bigger if required g) encourages much needed pure oz domestic rivalry focus for a set period h) as we don’t have equivalent of mitre cup gives our players more game time to develop I) TT competition does not run as long as uk and French pro competitions so should be able to accomodate j) could have some games at local club grounds and in the regions to promote reach and fan engagement and growth

 

[Dan54]

After years of failure, mismanagement and a slow descent into irrelevance, a global pandemic forces RA to fall arse first into a successful format.

Marinos: OK, let's go back to wasn't working before!

To be fair if Marinos is the only one who decides what competition format Aus plays in, you got one hell of a big problem. No CEO should be running the board by himself!

 

[Dan54]

Disappointing if true. Whilst games against the Kiwis are great as a post-domestic comp, it should never be our bread and butter.

Australians want Australian teams that win games and trophies, and I don't think we should put all our eggs in a basket where that's not guaranteed.

All it takes is one season where Australian teams don't win any games (god forbid it happens in a year where RA need to negotiate a broadcasting deal) and we'll find ourselves right back in the media and cultural shitter we've slowly been pulling ourselves out of.

I know the idea of an Aus only comp sounds attractive, but you need more than 5 teams to make it work. There is no way Australian teams will not win games in a full comp, and the idea of saying we need to guarantee a winner from Aus or NZ is like I said the same reasoning that in kid's sports where you give out medals to everyone. It means more when it harder to win.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

After years of failure, mismanagement and a slow descent into irrelevance, a global pandemic forces RA to fall arse first into a successful format.

Marinos: OK, let's go back to wasn't working before!

Yep to finally get some something per nine / Stan numbers shows product working to improve things from low base would seem crazy to completely abandon. I support and get need for TT but don’t see why can’t keep super rugby au as well with a cutdown version to accommodate TT. As if kiwis can do mitre 10 comp and TT we surely could do six nations style super rugby au Comp and TT

 

[hoggy]

I know the idea of an Aus only comp sounds attractive, but you need more than 5 teams to make it work. There is no way Australian teams will not win games in a full comp, and the idea of saying we need to guarantee a winner from Aus or NZ is like I said the same reasoning that in kid's sports where you give out medals to everyone. It means more when it harder to win.

Well add the Drua and you have 6 teams. A workable two round domestic leg leading into a single round TT. You can't guarantee that Aus sides will win, what happens if Aussie teams just make up the numbers, its not about guaranteeing every kid a medal but tonight you get an Aussie winner, a full stadium, improving viewing figures, and everything good that comes from a domestic final.

Risk giving that away would be the height of stupidity.

 

[RugbyReg]

Does anyone else see the Reds carrying on crowd size momentum if they win the final?. It seems in advance at least, like they'll crack 40K for the final which is great.

yep. We'd get 30k plus for the other games at Suncorp. Crusaders could push 40k again.

 

[dru]

Yep to finally get some something per nine / Stan numbers shows product working to improve things from low base would seem crazy to completely abandon. I support and get need for TT but don’t see why can’t keep super rugby au as well with a cutdown version to accommodate TT. As if kiwis can do mitre 10 comp and TT we surely could do six nations style super rugby au Comp and TT

Why cut down the domestic comp?

Domestic: Home and away + Finals
TT: Round Robin + Finals

We get more than enough "death by Kiwi" with the Bled. We do not need to do it to death in a TT as well. Lock in that effective domestic comp. Then expand across the ditch.

And then the sooner we can expand the TT to others, Japan etc, the better.

 

[hifflepiff]

I know the idea of an Aus only comp sounds attractive, but you need more than 5 teams to make it work.

Thats a longer term concern, but for the time being its better to consolidate the increasingly positive wider media narrative around Australian teams winning that will draw more casual fans the game. In the meantime we can supplement this with post season games against NZ to keep the format fresh.

Also when we want to add more teams, it will be a hell of a lot easier because: (A) RA doesn't need New Zealand to sign off on it and (B) we don't need to worry about how competitive new teams will be against Kiwi teams.

There is no way Australian teams will not win games in a full comp.

Its literally happened multiple times in the past few years and it basically completely killed interest for Super Rugby in Australia. Plus you can't guarantee it won't happen in the future, which was my main point. We can't rely on Australian teams never going through a dry patch to keep the sport alive.

and the idea of saying we need to guarantee a winner from Aus or NZ is like I said the same reasoning that in kid's sports where you give out medals to everyone. It means more when it harder to win.

Your average fan does not know or care how hard it is to win a competition, they only know if Australian teams are winning. The Reds are getting the most media and fan attention in years because they're winning. Maybe the die-hards will care more if we win a Trans-Tasman comp but for 90% of viewers a Grand-Final is a Grand-Final. Plus for the die-hards they can look forward to us winning a post-season trans-tasman cup if we're able. Best of both worlds.

As a final point, my main problem with a solely trans-tasman competition is that were spending half the season playing against teams from places your average Australian barely know exist, let alone care about.

NSW-Queensland has an inbuilt rivalry that anyone here can get around.

NSW-Waikato, not so much.

There's a reason every single successful sporting league in the world is domestic 1st, international 2nd. Its because it works.

 

[Dan54]

Well add the Drua and you have 6 teams. A workable two round domestic leg leading into a single round TT. You can't guarantee that Aus sides will win, what happens if Aussie teams just make up the numbers, its not about guaranteeing every kid a medal but tonight you get an Aussie winner, a full stadium, improving viewing figures, and everything good that comes from a domestic final.

Risk giving that away would be the height of stupidity.

Mate I was at same sold out stadium in 2011 when Reds won it too. I know where you coming from, I just personally like 1 winner.

I not sure how long you can keep playing the same 4 teams, I know we can say it's great, look how big the crowd is tonight, winning teams do that, did you see many between Tahs and Reds, there used to be, but Tahs are going through rough patch so not getting any crowds. And add Drua? They seem to be trying to base themselves in NZ if Fiji too hard.

But anyway I was really just asking if what Hamish and Marinos have both been quoted right when they suggest that their partners etc want them in a TT.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Why cut down the domestic comp?

Domestic: Home and away + Finals
TT: Round Robin + Finals

We get more than enough "death by Kiwi" with the Bled. We do not need to do it to death in a TT as well. Lock in that effective domestic comp. Then expand across the ditch.

And then the sooner we can expand the TT to others, Japan etc, the better.

You may be right but guess depends on broadcasters and how much content they want for TT and my assumption was they may want home and away then single round robin with finals. My suggestion is more just saying there are other options then just cutting Super Rugby AU.

We may still yet find that a full on TT competition with the kiwis does not work or cannot be made to work and that indeed better to seek to expand our domestic competition to 8 teams and then only have champion league style games with the kiwis super rugby teams and perhaps japan pro teams. Like you I think what at least has been shown with Super Rugby AU is benefits of our own domestic competition that half has been banging on way longer then any of us and that maybe we are better to go down that path and look at opportunities to challenge ourselves against the kiwis via champions league series and also bledisloe, with champion league games after our domestic comp but before the bledisloe. Probably swaying more to latter as possible succesful formula but lets see how TT goes as if that proves successful then happy to look at own domestic Super Rugby AU followed by TT.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Mate I was at same sold out stadium in 2011 when Reds won it too. I know where you coming from, I just personally like 1 winner.

I not sure how long you can keep playing the same 4 teams, I know we can say it's great, look how big the crowd is tonight, winning teams do that, did you see many between Tahs and Reds, there used to be, but Tahs are going through rough patch so not getting any crowds. And add Drua? They seem to be trying to base themselves in NZ if Fiji too hard.

But anyway I was really just asking if what Hamish and Marinos have both been quoted right when they suggest that their partners etc want them in a TT.

There is room for 2 products. At this point I get the commercials of a TT so for me if can make TT work for us I think both Super Rugby AU (with fiji added) then TT right way to go. If TT gets too tricky and can't make it work for us we expand our domestic comp and look at champions league style series with kiwis maybe,

Kiwi's have mitre 10 which they fit in - we don't have this with NRC gone hence room to accommodate Super Rugby AU even if shortened - cut down version as not fighting need to give TT a go, but just rather to try and fit in and retain our short domestic comp which if keep short and as lead into TT think will avoid it getting stale.

 

[Rebels3]

It’s only an 8 game 10 round comp, so it’s not like you’re playing the same team over a 6 month period. 5 teams is fine for a short form comp.

I can see there is growing support for SRAU. Having multiple trophies on offer in a season is amazing for fan engagement. Rugby in Europe has it and we can all see how that’s doing and the worlds most successful sport has it.