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Where is JON hiding?

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jimmydubs

Dave Cowper (27)
Wamberal - name one time when JoNs participation on the Echo board has impacted on his work at the ARU?
you're right he's been equally as poor since that appointment.
i'd just like to know that the game of rugby is worthy of a head honcho 100% of his time... i dont particularly care about comparisons to other companies etc. the game in oz has been on the slide and the driver at the wheel isn't in the car half the time now. awesome.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
you're right he's been equally as poor since that appointment.
i'd just like to know that the game of rugby is worthy of a head honcho 100% of his time. i dont particularly care about comparisons to other companies etc. the game in oz has been on the slide and the driver at the wheel isn't in the car half the time now. awesome.

I agree - rugby is a way of life not (just) a business.
Many on here would seem to have the qualifications to do the job if they had chosen to pursue it and, had they done so, they wouldn't need to look beyond the ARU for their thrill - its not like its humming along as a well oiled machine - there are legitimate complaints from stakeholders at all levels of the game. If he can take time away from rugby to go to Echo board meetings then that time would be better served going to junior club training nights, shute shield games, colts games, school games - then he might sense the grievances and be same way towards generally getting the whole country pushing in the same direction.
Its clear he's setting himself up for departure: if he were true to rugby he would never really leave but would merely cease to be employed by the game.
No doubt Cardinal Pell has a few spare hours in which he could sit on corporate boards for fun and profit.
Rugby should be the CEO's religion.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
you're right he's been equally as poor since that appointment.
i'd just like to know that the game of rugby is worthy of a head honcho 100% of his time. i dont particularly care about comparisons to other companies etc. the game in oz has been on the slide and the driver at the wheel isn't in the car half the time now. awesome.

Apologies again for defending him, I was unaware he was only working at the ARu half of what he used to. I hadn't seen his schedule. With this damning evidence let's hang him.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Inside shoulder - I'm not sure what JoN (who does attend Shute shield, schoolboy and jr rugby from time to time) would do attending training? The ARU provide grants to the state RUs that then fund and run the junior game, Oneils job is to maximize profit from super rugby and test matches to ensure those grants are met. So when people complain of an extra test against Scotland or after last years world cup, there actually saying they want less money in the game.

I believe the CEO job in any professional sport is to run the game as a business so the coaches players etc etc don't have to worry about doing so.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Apologies again for defending him, I was unaware he was only working at the ARu half of what he used to. I hadn't seen his schedule. With this damning evidence let's hang him.

From http://m.theaustralian.com.au/sport...oneills-echo-job/story-e6frg7o6-1226460301332


The Australian understands there is a growing opinion at the highest levels of the game that O'Neill, who is paid approximately $960,000 a year by the ARU, should be devoting his full attention to calming the growing unrest in the rugby community following the 22-0 wipeout of the Wallabies by the All Blacks in Auckland on Saturday night.
While he puts in long hours at the ARU, O'Neill is spending a significant amount of time dealing with the problems of casino operator Echo Entertainment, whose full-year profit plunged recently by more than 80 per cent.
It is understood O'Neill earns in the vicinity of $460,000 as Echo chairman.


So unless Echo just loves flushing cash down the dunny (like it's punters have) it looks like you're not far off being right there WJ
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
It says he is putting in significant time. It also says he works long hours at the ARU. So it's safe to assume he is handling both jobs to his contractual obligations, so yes, I'm 100% right.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
Apologies again for defending him, I was unaware he was only working at the ARu half of what he used to. I hadn't seen his schedule. With this damning evidence let's hang him.

Yeah. It was always only a half-time job at $1000.00 an hour. Being on contract, the ARU don't have to pay for 4 weeks off each year.

$1k per hour x 20 hours per week x 48 weeks gives the $960k p.a.

That still leaves plenty of time for another 10 hours a week down the road.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
O'Neill's contract with the ARU allows for at least one external directorship and he has been on the board of Echo, which demerged with Tabcorp last year, since 2007, the year he returned to the ARU from Football Federation Australia.

The ARU had no concerns with him chairing Events NSW from 2007 to 2009.

It is not uncommon for experienced football executives to hold external directorships - the AFL's Andrew Demetriou is involved in two - but the difference is that where Australian rules is thriving, Australian rugby is in the wars, with several former Wallabies coaches openly critical of the way the game is being administered.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...oneills-echo-job/story-e6frg7o6-1226460301332

So, not his first side job, contractually allowed to have it, a direct correlation to the head of AFl doing the same. Yep, he is cheating the system. Discussion over.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Inside shoulder - I'm not sure what JoN (who does attend Shute shield, schoolboy and jr rugby from time to time) would do attending training? The ARU provide grants to the state RUs that then fund and run the junior game, Oneils job is to maximize profit from super rugby and test matches to ensure those grants are met. So when people complain of an extra test against Scotland or after last years world cup, there actually saying they want less money in the game.

I believe the CEO job in any professional sport is to run the game as a business so the coaches players etc etc don't have to worry about doing so.
There's a problem with looking at other models of professional sport.
The ARU is not just responsible for the bit that generates and eats cash it is also the custodian of the games values and its community.
He could go to more tracings press the flesh find out what's eating rugby people in Rugby.
In reality his job is more like a politicians than anything else and we are his constituents.
Is there a level of the game in this country which is prospering in a sustainable way? Whichever level people are exposed to they're complaining: from QC (Quade Cooper) to the village clubs.
Surely that's not a coincidence or are we just whingers?


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T

TOCC

Guest
He could go to more tracings press the flesh find out what's eating rugby people in Rugby.
In reality his job is more like a politicians than anything else and we are his constituents.
Is there a level of the game in this country which is prospering in a sustainable way? Whichever level people are exposed to they're complaining: from QC (Quade Cooper) to the village clubs.
Surely that's not a coincidence or are we just whingers?

I couldnt disagree more, you can't have it both ways, complain that the CEO isn't spending enough time on the issues that matter and then also suggest that he needs to commit more of his time to the 'token gesture' of visiting trainings and other low level matches. That's not to say that the ARU shouldn't have a representation at such events, but the ARU is a organisation and such tasking should be delegated to development officers/coaches and staff. If aforementioned staff aren't putting themselves out there enough to connect with the community then they need to have a shake down, which then lays at the feet of JON and his other board members.

As for you question about rugby prospering in a sustainable way? well thats a loaded question, examples of growth at grass root level could be ridiculed as unsustainable or sustainable, there is no correct answer to that question. There are a vast number of areas in which rugby union is growing in this country, whether the high levels of growth currently exhibited at WA, VIC and QLD junior levels are sustainable is arguable given the extreme figures which are been reported.

I think people need to separate the Wallabies which are essentially a flagship representation of professional rugby and the amateur community rugby within Australia, to suggest that Australian Rugby is failing because of the performances of the Wallabies is ignoring the good work that clubs/coaches and teams are doing at other levels of community rugby within Australia.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The notion being promulgated by some here that it is acceptable and indeed typical for well-governed boards of directors to permit highly-paid CEOs to undertake active Chairman roles outside their core duties in companies undergoing substantial change and turbulence is totally incorrect.

It may be typical for a CEO to be permitted - subject to specific-case board consent - to undertake one or two passive non-Executive director roles outside the CEO space, but that is it. It is manifestly not appropriate conduct for a board to permit a full-time CEO to be paid as such and yet gain materially from an additional role that is of such complexity and time requirement that it necessarily requires many work hours and distractions away from the core CEO role. Good boards do not permit that type of ancillary commitment, period, and the reasons are obvious. To be _chairing_ a substantial public company that is (a) under siege from outside parties (b) dispensing with a number of top executives and directors and is (c) financially under performing and requires to raise new capital, etc is by any definition a major continuing time commitment/distraction and, in the case of JON's Echo role, is being financially compensated accordingly to the tune of roughly half the ARU CEO salary.

That the ARU board has permitted an abnormal indulgence of JO'N's obvious own financial and career aspirations outside rugby is both improper, yet wholly unsurprising. This is the ARU board that:

- permitted lengthy contract extensions to its CEO and national coach prior to the seminal rugby event that was meant to prove the quality of their national code leadership and coaching skill;

- offered such extensions without any form of proper open explanation as to their justification or necessity;

- permitted its CEO to attempt to hide his own remuneration from public disclosure despite such remuneration being effectively, directly and indirectly, provided by fans of the code in terms of viewership and gate income;

- permitted an alleged 'independent' review of RWC 2011 performance to be led by an active coach within that performance sphere and where such a review was to be staffed and approved only by ARU board insiders;

- permitted that review - so crucial to fans and supporters' knowledge of what went on/wrong - to never be published openly and transparently, but instead to be only partly leaked with obvious bias to selected 'compliant' journalists;

- allowed the RWC 2011 to be declared a 'pass mark' despite the ARU's 2009-11 pre-declaration that the Deans period would be vindicated by an outstanding Wallaby performance at this event;

- allowed Nucfora exceptional and free-ranging powers over multiple elements of national and youth coaching, player development, 'high performance' matters, etc, despite numerous failures at same but without any form of open analysis or justification of his performance for national rugby;

- permitted a major code-wide 'governance' review to be led to parties whose backgrounds had no correlation with direct experience of successful professional sporting organisations, or even of outstanding corporate governance standards;

- despite providing essential funding for all state franchises, stood by passively whilst numerous major state franchises were markedly and dangerously deteriorating in all of rugby quality, fan attendance, and core commercial viability and thus manifestly threatening the viability of the code in crucial geographic regions

......and so on.

The point being that the JO'N free rein to do largely as he wishes with his time irrespective of the cosmetic and substantive consequences for Australian rugby is little other than a manifestation of poor governance practices and unsound professional accountabilities at the heart of the ARU board as consistently practiced conduct over many highly important matters relating to rugby in Australia.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ I agree with TOCC at #90.

Nationally there are some good and positive reports on Rugby numbers, profile and development.

Stuck in a Sydney/Waratah paradigm leads one to conclude that there are problems for rugby across the board. There appear to be some serious problems with SRU, SJRU, Tahs and the various Schools competitions in Sydney. It is understandable that there are some rather miseryguts Gaggerlanders from Sydney.

It is good that these Sydney issues are not being repeated everywhere.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
So what your saying is you have no proof if JONs time at Echo is impacting on his job at all and he isn't breaking his contract in any way either?
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
So what your saying is you have no proof if JONs time at Echo is impacting on his job at all and he isn't breaking his contract in any way either?

If you sincerely think WJ that's what I am saying above then either:

- you are not wanting to understand what I am saying OR

- you are further practicing your long-deployed capacity - indeed enjoyment - of doing as you endlessly did for the Tahs, Tahs' coaches, Tahs' business leaders, and playing outcomes (until the house essentially collapsed this year), namely excusing, rationalising, justifying, positivity-hunting, apologising for and fawning over the most obvious and consistent examples of poor and delinquent state-based rugby code leadership that have existed for decades.

You're a status quo junkie and that's fine, I just worry that such a predisposition over time conflicts hugely with your obvious love of our game, which I clearly share with you.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
So what your saying is you have no proof if JONs time at Echo is impacting on his job at all and he isn't breaking his contract in any way either?
No one has ever said that JON was not fulfilling his contractual obligations.
The point is, he should never have been given permission by the board to do the Echo gig.Surely you must acknowledge by virtue of the remuneration he receives ($400k+) there is a significant time commitment on JON
They should have told him to make a choice.
(after they had reviewed his prior performance to decide whether his contract should be extended)
It appears to outsiders that the board did neither.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
WJ - I might be wrong, but there seems to be ample, well presented opinion from some pretty informed posters as to the propriety of JO'N's multiple positions. Chairman does not equal NED at all.
It's almost trolling to keep peddling the same flawed logic.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Yeah, well presented opinion. Not fact. At the end of the day it is just conjecture that his job at echo is impacting on his job at the ARU. There is actually zero proof.

The fact he chaired events NSW previous to no complaints would illustrate that people are just sticking a boot in rather than looking factually at the situation.

Is 400,000 the same as the last chairmen got payed? What are the time requirements of his echo job? Has he missed one meeting at the ARU or not been able to do his duties due to echo? Answering these questions to me would answer the debate, but no one has. They simply just connect dots and then sight random fact to prove a point that doesn't actually exist except for opinion.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think people need to separate the Wallabies which are essentially a flagship representation of professional rugby and the amateur community rugby within Australia, to suggest that Australian Rugby is failing because of the performances of the Wallabies is ignoring the good work that clubs/coaches and teams are doing at other levels of community rugby within Australia.

There's nothing token about it: if he actually lived and breathed it he'd have a far better idea of what's going on.
The performances of the Wallabies are not my measure of what is going on in rugby - they are the symptom not the disease.
The Shute Shield is on its knees - be assured that if it falters the effect on Australian rugby will be profound.
Under age rugby in NSW is chaotic - have a look at the National U16 thread and see if you can work out how they picked the NSW teams.
The Wallabies do not exist for commercial gain:they existed before there was commercial gain. They are the centrepiece of a community game. The ARU owe their existence and everything they do to the wider rugby community and not to board members or current or past players or the shareholders of Echo.
The game, in my view, is in serious trouble and the Captain's on shore leave.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
WJ, it is stupid to compare the time required to chair a gov advisory board with that of a publicly listed company that is worth over $3billion.
But you know that.
 
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