Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

[tekay]

It has been one game. He has had the team for 2 weeks. 5 players played there first test & 4 others debuted vs the Lions. That is pretty amazing, when was the last time 9 players with less than 3 caps ran out for a test?

If the first performance of the TRC next year looks similar then come back and have a whinge, I will probably join you.

My point is simply that there was a lot of talk that Ewen McKenzie was going deliver the AB's head on a stick - and do everything that Deans apparently couldn't do which has now been confirmed to be just crap.

BUT yes it's early days - I'm just not a fan of some of his selections either.

 

[I like to watch]

Fair point.
The bit I didn't like,was that Link refused to acknowledge they were deficient in any areas,and just talked up the positives.
I am too jaundiced from hearing that crap from Foley at the Tahs,to lap it up from the Wobs coach.
I would much prefer he gave an honest assessment rather than spin.

 

[No4918]

My point is simply that there was a lot of talk that Ewen McKenzie was going deliver the AB's head on a stick - and do everything that Deans apparently couldn't do which has now been confirmed to be just crap.

BUT yes it's early days - I'm just not a fan of some of his selections either.

So what could have been done differently and where did they go wrong that your players could have executed better.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Fair point.
The bit I didn't like,was that Link refused to acknowledge they were deficient in any areas,and just talked up the positives.
I am too jaundiced from hearing that crap from Foley at the Tahs,to lap it up from the Wobs coach.
I would much prefer he gave an honest assessment rather than spin.

I think Link is in a difficult situation with only a week between games and no doubt a few injury worries so shortly after the game.
There's not enough time for a full blown blood letting even if that was what was called for.
He has to walk a fine line, particularly in public.

 

[Dan54]

I agree IS, Link would be telling boys quietly what is wrong, last thing he needs to do is knock the boys confidence this early in his reign.

 

[boyo]

I don't think anyone here (least of all me) was saying that we will immediately play world beating footy. However, a change in coach, strategy and picking a few new blokes based on form are all positive things to move forward with. I'm happy to give the new regime some time to get things right, because lord knows we'd reached the end of the road with the previous one. As long as there is week by week improvement the results will come.

As I said yesterday, there is a lot of improvement left in this team.

This, and play IF at 15 (seeing as he's been playing there for the Tahs, and thus doesn't have to learn new A&D structures).

 

[tekay]

So what could have been done differently and where did they go wrong that your players could have executed better.

Well I've made it clear on here earlier that I'd have Factcat over Slipper any day.

Hugh Pyle over Simmons by a long shot.

Have QC (Quade Cooper) only delivering oranges at an Under 7's game a few blocks away (ok ok maybe on the bench pending an injury).

And bring in Speight - a hard, good line running winger whose in great form.
Cummins should be hanging on the bench too for his physicality.

Have Sio start.

 

[lewisr]

Well I've made it clear on here earlier that I'd have Factcat over Slipper any day.

Hugh Pyle over Simmons by a long shot.

Have QC (Quade Cooper) only delivering oranges at an Under 7's game a few blocks away (ok ok maybe on the bench pending an injury).

And bring in Speight - a hard, good line running winger whose in great form.
Cummins should be hanging on the bench too for his physicality.

Have Sio start.

Come on mate... Lay off the stereotypes would you? As most have pointed out here, Simmons was one of the best forwards in the match behind hooper and on par with Moore. Slipper following close behind. All 4 of them got through a mountain of work.

You can't bring in Speight, he's ineligible until the EOYT. This has been covered numerous times.

QC (Quade Cooper) was actually better than To'omua in the 20 minutes that he had on the field. We got over the gain line pretty much every time he distributed to the outside backs. I think To'omua deserves another shot because you dont give a bloke like that a go without expecting some hesitance in his debut. But Quade absolutely has to be on the bench if Matt is starting.

 

[Pfitzy]

That moment where Quade got drilled from behind by Luatua though ....



Just pass the fucking ball! Lilo did it too - Hooper right there with him and didn't give, then Hooper gets tripped by the tackler because lilo cut in front. Goran had the nerve to blame hooper!

 

[lewisr]

Fair call. Still saw the Quade errors, not denying that. But he definitely made us look more dangerous when he came on. Him and white worked quite well in speeding up the decision making too. Fuck, can Genia just get over this stupid slow ruck ball shit and pass it? It's plagued him at the reds this year as well.

 

[tekay]

Come on mate. Lay off the stereotypes would you? As most have pointed out here, Simmons was one of the best forwards in the match behind hooper and on par with Moore. Slipper following close behind. All 4 of them got through a mountain of work.

You can't bring in Speight, he's ineligible until the EOYT. This has been covered numerous times.

QC (Quade Cooper) was actually better than To'omua in the 20 minutes that he had on the field. We got over the gain line pretty much every time he distributed to the outside backs. I think To'omua deserves another shot because you dont give a bloke like that a go without expecting some hesitance in his debut. But Quade absolutely has to be on the bench if Matt is starting.

Stereotypes? Who the hell is talking about stereotypes?!

Simmons effort doesn't make up for lazy arse balls skills. Compare his skills and physicality to that of Reid for the All Blacks and it's embarrassing.

Hugh Pyle has the physicality that Simmons lacks.

QC (Quade Cooper) is so overrated it's laughable. He's too often like Campo on a bad day.

 

[lewisr]

Stereotypes? Who the hell is talking about stereotypes?!

Simmons effort doesn't make up for lazy arse balls skills. Compare his skills and physicality to that of Reid for the All Blacks and it's embarrassing.

Hugh Pyle has the physicality that Simmons lacks.

QC (Quade Cooper) is so overrated it's laughable. He's too often like Campo on a bad day.

Simmons isnt a number 8??? Thats like me comparing Luke Romano to Michael Hooper, apples and oranges. What's your point? Second Rowers aren't renowned for their ball handling skills bud. Sharpie was hardly an artist with ball in hand. Rarely passed the ball in fact. Don't really know what you're getting at there.

Sorry, overrated when compared to who? Who would you have over him in the 10 jumper bar To'omua who started on the weekend? Again, the bloke had a better game than Matt. It has been widely accepted that that was the case. However, as I've already said, I still think Matt should start. He needs another chance to prove his worth because after all, he was debuting against the All Blacks.

"Quade is overrated" is a pretty big stereotype. Actually look at what he did in his 20 minutes. It was quite impressive in terms of creating penetration and bringing back some of the attacking form that he was renowned for. Even defended in the front line.

 

[vidiot]

Simmons effort doesn't make up for lazy arse balls skills. Compare his skills and physicality to that of Reid for the All Blacks and it's embarrassing.

I don't want to rain on your diatribe but but the reality is that Simmons turned the ball over twice to Read's 5. Simmons made more runs, more metres and more tackles. He won more line outs. He was (surprisingly) effective. (Sharpe,) Deans and now McKenzie keep picking him, and he delivered.

Read is a great player and he would walk into the Wallabies, but he isn't a lock and he isn't available for selection. He was one of the quieter performers for the all blacks. Which is very bad, he was still way better than the wallaby 6 and 8 and he is likely to be considerably more damaging this week.

Pyle is unlucky not to be in the mix but I think that is understandable. Did he play another super game after being injured in the same game as Higgers back before the Lions tour? There are debutants and near debutants through the pack and the backline. He'll be in the mix in the near future.

 

[tekay]

Simmons isnt a number 8??? Thats like me comparing Luke Romano to Michael Hooper, apples and oranges. What's your point? Second Rowers aren't renowned for their ball handling skills bud. Sharpie was hardly an artist with ball in hand. Rarely passed the ball in fact. Don't really know what you're getting at there.

Sorry, overrated when compared to who? Who would you have over him in the 10 jumper bar To'omua who started on the weekend? Again, the bloke had a better game than Matt. It has been widely accepted that that was the case. However, as I've already said, I still think Matt should start. He needs another chance to prove his worth because after all, he was debuting against the All Blacks.

"Quade is overrated" is a pretty big stereotype. Actually look at what he did in his 20 minutes. It was quite impressive in terms of creating penetration and bringing back some of the attacking form that he was renowned for. Even defended in the front line.

So it's ok to have shit balls skills then? "Sorry man, dropped that one, and the one before and yep, I threw an intercept too but hey bud - I'm just a second rower"

Every player at Test level should have the highest of ball skills or they shouldn't be there - full stop and regardless of how many metres they can barge. The modern game demands it and the All Blacks display it far more than most.

And I don't care what you say about Quade, he is flakey.

 

[tekay]

I don't want to rain on your diatribe but but the reality is that Simmons turned the ball over twice to Reid's 5. Simmons made more runs, more metres and more tackles. He won more line outs. He was (surprisingly) effective. (Sharpe,) Deans and now McKenzie keep picking him, and he delivered.

Reid is a great player and he would walk into the Wallabies, but he isn't a lock and he isn't available for selection. He was one of the quieter performers for the all blacks. Which is very bad, he was still way better than the wallaby 6 and 8 and he is likely to be considerably more damaging this week.

Pyle is unlucky not to be in the mix but I think that is understandable. Did he play another super game after being injured in the same game as Higgers back before the Lions tour? There are debutants and near debutants through the pack and the backline. He'll be in the mix in the near future.

I saw Reid. The dude's intensity and skill was applied the other night and it hurt, some of his offloads and breakdown play is quite formidable, the same however, cannot be said of Simmons. If you dispute that you're just being parochial.

 

[No4918]

Do you mean Read?

How about comparing Simmons with Whitelock, comparing a 4 & 8 is ridiculous.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Read was nowhere near as effective on Saturday as previous tests. It seemed McCaw took a lot of the ball carries that Read was doing in the French series. But Read still attacked the gain line with ferocity and dragged in multiple defenders to bring him down.

I noted on another forum that this was Simmons best game I've seen at both test and super level. Far more involved and far more assertive. The width the Aussies were trying to play in attack with seemed to suit him and he was pretty effective out on the edges 2 or 3 wide of the ruck. But OZ lacked the finishing polish to use what good ball he may have provided from his runs.

 

[Dam0]

Do you mean Read?

How about comparing Simmons with Whitelock, comparing a 4 & 8 is ridiculous.

Simmons would win that one I'd say. Whitelock had an off night. Gave away 2 PK's and couldn't catch a thing in the lineouts. A bit odd because Whitelock had been excellent in general this year.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Read was nowhere near as effective on Saturday as previous tests. It seemed McCaw took a lot of the ball carries that Read was doing in the French series. But Read still attacked the gain line with ferocity and dragged in multiple defenders to bring him down.

I noted on another forum that this was Simmons best game I've seen at both test and super level. Far more involved and far more assertive. The width the Aussies were trying to play in attack with seemed to suit him and he was pretty effective out on the edges 2 or 3 wide of the ruck. But OZ lacked the finishing polish to use what good ball he may have provided from his runs.

Yep, that's the point I made after the game. I think the ideas were right and often effective on Saturday night. What was missing was the polish, as you say. It's that last 5% that separates a good team from a really good team. The AB's have a very experienced squad these days, with continuity in selections and coaching. We are restarting the journey with a new pattern after five years of "what's in front of you". When we made a mistake we were punished severely and weren't able to do the same to our opposition. I think it will come though.

What I did like was the attempt to play at a higher tempo and keep the ball moving (that old rugby adage about the ball beating the man). There were times when I thought we looked pretty threatening, but those last passes were either misdirected or we'd make a break without support being close enough (that happened several times). If that part of the game improves there will be considerably more scoring opportunities that will open up.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

I personally can't believe the calls for Quade to start.

Yes he gave more go forward, but you'd hope that from fresh legs against guys played 65 mins of fast, high intensity rugby. Barrett looked assured and smooth as well for the same reason.

I think McKenzies tactic was spot on. To'omua for the first 60, then QC (Quade Cooper) against tired defence. Something has to get QC (Quade Cooper) confidence up to eliminate his errors, as we all know he has the natural talent to explode a team into life, and these cameos might just be it.

But he fluffed a lot of things in his cameo on Saturday - you simply can't consistently do this if you want to be the starting 10, when there is another bloke ahead of you who doesn't.