Where did we go wrong? Wallaby Recovery thread.

[vidiot]

Pretty hard to sweep in composure with a new broom, hopefully they can learn it.

McCaw is amazing. He and Hansen really used the scuttlebutt about his fitness/age/lack of game time recently to motivate a really complete performance though he does it international after international. 14 rucks and mauls, 11 runs, tackles, turnovers. Out-performed the wallaby back row on his own.

Priority 1 (apart from treasuring the football) - shift him.

 

[KiwiLogic]

I love watching the All blacks play the Wallabies. To me, its always a good game of rugby, regardless of the state of each team's current form and ability. I was in oz when we got knocked out of the World Cup in 2003 (thx for nothing Stirling Mortlock)...We partied all night long that night because we didn't want to wake up and face the doom and gloom. But alas, i woke up to be reminded that we lost against a team we put 50 points on earlier in the season! It's never a foregone conclusion when it comes to ABs vs OZ

 

[Sagerian]

Gotta give the McKenzie led Wallabies a chance guys. I mean, it's pretty obvious Ewen's only set move was to pass through the hands, next game they'll add a cut-out pass to the attack and we'll be on our way.

Baby steps, lads.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It hasn't been too bad really.

I also think that before you come down on any ref too hard for any particular call or lack of it you need to work out what role the A/R played in the particular decision.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I don't think anyone here (least of all me) was saying that we will immediately play world beating footy. However, a change in coach, strategy and picking a few new blokes based on form are all positive things to move forward with. I'm happy to give the new regime some time to get things right, because lord knows we'd reached the end of the road with the previous one. As long as there is week by week improvement the results will come.

As I said yesterday, there is a lot of improvement left in this team.

 

[Brumby Runner]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was one of the few units who ran decent lines, we need him for 13. Moving him would be dumb

As for complaints re him being able to link in that break, chicken and egg to me, could AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have done better at getting to them, maybe, but the support wasn't exactly ready for the break and didn't work hard enough to get into decent support positions

I think Hooper was doing everything he could to support on the inside, but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) seems to really not look for and play for his supports. But then Genia should not have kicked after the ruck. When on the front foot, keep the ball in hand and keep asking questions of the defence. That was the real error.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Just watched the game again, and think this is rubbish.


He makes one bad read, leading to the ABs first try. Still a bloody ripper pass from Cruden, but it was a clear error.

From that point on he is fine. He was forced infield in McCaw's try to cover for Hooper and Horwill, who were still getting up from a ruck. He doesn't push in and the ABs score on the inside of him. As it was they used the numerical advantage and scored in the corner. Not much JOC (James O'Connor) could have done about it.

He made all of his tackles that I could see.
.

McCaw scored with Hooper around his legs. Think it was a matter of Hooper covering for JOC (James O'Connor) rather than the other way around.

 

[barbarian]

Watch it again. Hooper and Horwill were getting up from a ruck, JOC (James O'Connor) came infield to fill the gap created. He did the right thing IMO, or else the ABs would have scored on the inside.

 

[scaraby]

Just watched it again.
Hooper and Simmons both very good.
Horwill, Moore, Slipper not bad.
Leali'ifano not bad, kicked well, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) had moments.
JOC (James O'Connor) was not as bad as many have said, I reckon. He tried to get involved, and did some decent stuff, and I agree with barbarian that it is harsh to sheet all the tries down his side home to him. Defence a bit off, otherwise fine.
Cooper looked much better in his time than To'omua.
Liam Gill made a difference too.
Others all a bit meh.

you've pretty much mirrored my thoughts and now the question is.....If Simmons plays like that again, and he was very good, can we drop Mowen back to 8 and start Gill? Folau must start 15 this week,he should have always been there straight from the Tahs.(look at super 15 stats).
JOC (James O'Connor) is a muppet (hopefully a reformed 1) but is also a must, which leaves the Left Wing open because he's on the wrong side.
Badger gets a go until Speight takes over(anyone see the club 7s ?)

 

[scaraby]

Can't get this picture out of my head.

yes but if it was up to most Wobs Supporters he'd be sitting on its forehead!!!

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

you've pretty much mirrored my thoughts and now the question is...If Simmons plays like that again, and he was very good, can we drop Mowen back to 8 and start Gill? Folau must start 15 this week,he should have always been there straight from the Tahs.(look at super 15 stats).
JOC (James O'Connor) is a muppet (hopefully a reformed 1) but is also a must, which leaves the Left Wing open because he's on the wrong side.
Badger gets a go until Speight takes over(anyone see the club 7s ?)

Whya are people advocating Gill at 6? It has been proven in the past that you can't play 2 opensides that have similar games (Waugh and Smith). The problem with the backrow and with the OZ scrum is that we don't have that impact forward in the backrow. That 110-120kg forward with good footwork and ball skills that can bend the line and ask questions of the defence. Gill does not fill this role. Mowen does not fill this role. MMM does not fill this role. All of them have a greatb workrate and give their all for the team but they are not international class 6's or 8's. NZ have plenty with Reid and any number of 6's that run around in the ITM Cup.

Who can fill this role from OZ rugby at the moment? Higginbottom when he returns can do this but apart from him I struggle to see anyone else.

 

[Pfitzy]

Who can fill this role from OZ rugby at the moment? Higginbottom when he returns can do this but apart from him I struggle to see anyone else.

McCalman - we lack honest toilers up front and that's what we need. We have our world class hooker and something approaching that in the second row. Hooper or Gill are world class flankers. The rest of the pack need to be the glue.

Two things need to happen this week at training:

1) Stop the stupid fucking offloads and 50/50 bullshit.

2) Work on support play and communication. We made heaps of line breaks for a Test match, but lacked support players. Fix this and the missed tackle count goes down too.

This isn't going to be fixed by star players. Its going to be fixed by hard work.

 

[Bullrush]

Who can fill this role from OZ rugby at the moment? Higginbottom when he returns can do this but apart from him I struggle to see anyone else.

I'll admit to not watching a huge amount of Rebels games this year but I don't think of Higginbottom as the guy you need to fill that role.

If Aelua was fit then he'd be a goer. I think Pocock could do it (him and Hooper at 7 would be scary IMO), Ita Vaea was in that frame as well until his unfortunate sickness. Samo was pretty good too.

I dunno - I might be wrong but Higginbottom really doesn't worry me as an AB fan.

 

[I like to watch]

I didn't rate him when he was at the Reds.My impression was he sea gulled, his performance for the Rebels was much stronger and tighter.
I am a fan.Obviously Link was happy for him to be causing havoc wider than the traditional role,

 

[Bullrush]

I didn't rate him when he was at the Reds.My impression was he sea gulled, his performance for the Rebels was much stronger and tighter.
I am a fan.Obviously Link was happy for him to be causing havoc wider than the traditional role,

That was my impression as well but again - haven't watched a huge amount of Rebels this year.

 

[tekay]

Hmm. Turns out that Ewen McKenzie is not the messiah many were expecting to steer the Wallabies to win. No surprises for me there.

Makes the inroads Deans had been making appear a lot clearer - just having a fellow Aussie as your coach means fuck all.

Early days, yes, but a lot more has to done at the breakdown for the Wobs to turn it around. McKenzie has some work to do.

Btw was Slipper even out there? Bring Fatcat back - scrummaging aside (possiby forever with these absurd new laws) he's still so much more effective at the breakdown. Simmons had a crack yes but stupid, costly no-look passes are not what you expect a test level (take note QC (Quade Cooper)). QC (Quade Cooper) still looks as flakey as ever. To'omua will come good as he settles in and the natural composure he has (which QC (Quade Cooper) lacks) will show through, same goes for Mogg.

Awesome straight hard running lines from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) shows he's still a force. Thought JOC (James O'Connor) played pretty well too.

As others have said, the scoreline didn't really reflect the closeness of the game but opportunistic tries aside - there's still a hunger and mongrel about the ABs that many of the Wallabies forwards in particular, seem to lack - notwithstanding Hooper who always plays with intensity the whole team needs.

Seems we're suffering from too much talk and not enough action.

Oh - and next time we face the Haka we should walk right up close to it - I don't give a fuck if they say it's not allowed anymore - they should just do it - steal its force (not as if they'd cancel the game).

 

[Bardon]

Higgers was one of the most, if not THE most improved, Aus forward this year up until his injury. While he was at the Reds and with the Wobs during the same period he reminded me a lot of Andy Powell. As pointed out he sea gulled a lot and his upright running style made it easier to turn the ball over.

But his move to the Rebels and the extra responsibility really transformed his game.

Still I'm not convinced that waiting for X or Y player to return from injury is a real solution that a top 3 test nation should be relying on. I think Link knows that he needs to introduce better work ethic, tactics, basic skills under pressure etc.

 

[Deputy Van Halen]

That was my impression as well but again - haven't watched a huge amount of Rebels this year.

Take a look through the aus team of the weeks for this year, if he was playing there is every chance he was the standout number 8 selected. When he came down here I was also under the impression that he was a bit of a seagull that didn't do the hard yards and was after a paid holiday in Melbourne. Much to the delight of Rebels fans the captaincy sat very well with him and he turned into the damaging all round player we hoped he could be, dare I say almost Kieran Read like in his abilities this year? It's a real shame he got injured in the last match before the lions series, because the form he was in this year is exactly the type of player we need to step up and fill the void with Palu on his way out.

Mowen was best at 6 menacing the opposition half back, put McCalman or even Schatz at 8 in the meantime as MMM is clearly underdone. We are just going to have to make do until Cliffy or Higgers come back. Otherwise don't mess around with the team too much, it's far too early to expect miracles, Mogg is about the only other player that needs to be dropped, I was big supporter of him to start at fullback but it's quickly become clear he's not up to international standards yet, he's not physical enough and the pressure obviously gets to him. He needs another big pre-season to bulk up a bit and time to build some confidence again. He upped his game a lot between the 2012 and 2013 seasons and that needs to happen again to be a clear starter at fullback.

 

[No4918]

Hmm. Turns out that Ewen McKenzie is not the messiah many were expecting to steer the Wallabies to win. No surprises for me there.

It has been one game. He has had the team for 2 weeks. 5 players played there first test & 4 others debuted vs the Lions. That is pretty amazing, when was the last time 9 players with less than 3 caps ran out for a test?

If the first performance of the TRC next year looks similar then come back and have a whinge, I will probably join you.

 

[Richo]

Wow, I hadn't quite added up those numbers. 9 new players in 4 matches is pretty amazing.