What is wrong with the Tahs

[rugbysmartarse]

Nice signature Linus. Knew a kwi withat signature on another forum...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Linus - Alan Jones was a joke: I dont think he ever played the game - at least there's no evidence of it.

 

[Rob42]

I bet Kafe has his whiteboard - or Star Wars finger pointing - board out tonight on The Rugby Club and questions why the Tahs don't do more moves like the one that lead to the Horne try against the Bulls.

The ball was passed to Barnes who was super flat, and he passed the pill flat in front of two moving players who drew the attention of tacklers - to Horne who had ran to a gap that was already there - and if it wasn't, he could have swerved in his run to find it before he received the ball.

You had it all: the two passes were flat because Barnes was flat, and Horne received it flat - and there was deception from two players between Barnes and Horne.

Beautiful. Simple. 7 points.
.

That try reminded me very strongly of that one from a few years ago which AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) scored at Suncorp(?) where he ended up jumping almost into the crowd after scoring. Barnes delivered that pass too, with three guys in motion aiming at that fly-half/inside centre channel - it looked like any of the three of them could have scored. That we don't see those kind of moves more frequently is unfathomable.

 

[Linus]

Linus - Alan Jones was a joke: I dont think he ever played the game - at least there's no evidence of it.

I got the gist of it. Thanks. Next time I'll to sure to add to ensure the sarcasm is more evident.

But in the meantime, it supports my point that Backs who become coaches are few and far between in Australia. And there are a significant number of props who monopolise certain levels of our game. I was hard pressed to think of one other than Deans.
Let's go Connelly, E. Jones, what was MacQueen and we are back a generation of players.
At a provinencial level Nucifora, obviously MacKensie, Graham, Cheika, Fisher... feel free to point out any high level head coaches that are backs that I missed. I wasn't counting Friend, Hill I don't know...

I know I have my tongue placed in my cheek, to see what I can stir up. But ... I do think it's points to at least the decline in our back play, and doesn't mean that these appointments weren't the best available.

I have moved to from the Central West of NSW and to Victoria and referee i have regular junior games and nearly every scout/junior selector/coach has a much thicker neck than mine. I have a sneaking suspicion their is a conspiracy afoot.

And thanks RSArse, the wisdom of Yoda is hard to pass up.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

When you didn't bite I became concerned that you and others might think I actually thought Jones had played the game or that whatever power he had over the players was derived from deeds and not words.
Macqueen was a backrower i understand.
There's no doubting the accuracy of your point

 

[cyclopath]

Linus - Alan Jones was a joke: I dont think he ever played the game - at least there's no evidence of it.

But I think he liked it out in the backs. Or somesuch, I forget the actual wording. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Bowside]

I don't think it would take much to turn the tahs around.

All the pieces are there - massive junior catchment, strong club comp, established brand and history; they just need to put it all together and match it with some on field success.

I don't understand why the tahs are a separate entity to the NSWRU. Both organisations success' is totally reliant on the other.

I think they will be a lot stronger squad next year; if they sort their coaching team out and set themselves ambitious goals the success will come.

 

[I like to watch]

You haven't been following the Tahs very closely Bowside, there is nothing to turn around, they have been experiencing on field success. You are making the critical error that the scoreline is a measure of success, we at the Tah's have moved on from that very narrow definition many moons ago.
Coaching team is sorted, and I am confident they will smash their KPI's again this year, as they seemingly do every year.
Business as usual in Tah land........

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't think it would take much to turn the tahs around.

All the pieces are there - massive junior catchment, strong club comp, established brand and history; they just need to put it all together and match it with some on field success.

I don't understand why the tahs are a separate entity to the NSWRU. Both organisations success' is totally reliant on the other.

I think they will be a lot stronger squad next year; if they sort their coaching team out and set themselves ambitious goals the success will come.

They need to do something about that (recent) history and, like warragamba dam, it's a massive catchment but they think they can ignore it and it will look after itself.....they need a desal plant


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[rugbysmartarse]

You mean they should waste half a billion dollars on an idle piece of plant they don't use? I have complete faith the waratahs board can manage that

 

[waratahjesus]

They need to do something about that (recent) history and, like warragamba dam, it's a massive catchment but they think they can ignore it and it will look after itself.....they need a desal plant


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The separation of the boards was actually so the Tahs didn't have to worry about the catchment and couldn't be accused of politics over it. The NSWRU runs it, separate entity and one that due to the Tahs actually being run by a better business model over the last couple of years has received greater funding.

As I've said before, NSW can have a catchment area 500x bigger than it is and it still serves no greater advantage as the waratahs only have the same number of opportunities and contracts to offer as every other franchise, there is no ownership over players anymore.

 

[Richo]

The separation of the boards was actually so the Tahs didn't have to worry about the catchment and couldn't be accused of politics over it. The NSWRU runs it, separate entity and one that due to the Tahs actually being run by a better business model over the last couple of years has received greater funding.

As I've said before, NSW can have a catchment area 500x bigger than it is and it still serves no greater advantage as the waratahs only have the same number of opportunities and contracts to offer as every other franchise, there is no ownership over players anymore.

Which actually makes talent evaluation an even more crucial task since the possibility of top prospects slipping through is even more likely.

 

[numbertwo]

But in the meantime, it supports my point that Backs who become coaches are few and far between in Australia. And there are a significant number of props who monopolise certain levels of our game. I was hard pressed to think of one other than Deans.
Let's go Connelly, E. Jones, what was MacQueen and we are back a generation of players.
At a provinencial level Nucifora, obviously MacKensie, Graham, Cheika, Fisher... feel free to point out any high level head coaches that are backs that I missed. I wasn't counting Friend, Hill I don't know...

I don't see what your point is. This is the natural order of things. In fact the problem is that there are too many props and not enough hookers. Hookers are the natural brains trust in any club. They are wiley, tough, committed and sly all of which are the most desirable qualities that you want in a coach. The only thing better than a hooker is an old hooker.

Clearly the Waratahs are on the right track with an old hooker as head coach, but they can only turn things around with old hookers in all coaching positions and as the CEO.

i have regular junior games and nearly every scout/junior selector/coach has a much thicker neck than mine. I have a sneaking suspicion their is a conspiracy afoot.

Mate if they had necks, they weren't front rowers.

 

[waratahjesus]

Which actually makes talent evaluation an even more crucial task since the possibility of top prospects slipping through is even more likely.

Absolutely, but it doesn't give NSW an advantage. I will use Pocock as an example, every union knew he was a great prospect, the reds would have known it more than most, but at the time the force were able to offer him far greater opportunity, it's not the reds fault, they had to be competitive then and there so had to have players under contract who could perform, the forcecwere abk to sign him to a full contract when he was underaged.

The only advantage that comes from it is the ability for someone from the Tahs to say during negotiations, "you will be around your family and friends". With only 30 places, unfortunately opportunity is always going to exist in different places at different times, it's just a fact of rugby these days.

As far as scouts are concerned, they all know each other, where each scout is looking at at whom as they do in most sports, there isn't any talent being developed in labs behind closed doors like ivan drago.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

there isn't any talent being developed in labs behind closed doors like ivan drago.

WJ - you may have hit on the answer

 

[Gnostic]

Had a very interesting discussion with a NH Rugby nut who was comparing the performances of Australian 10s in the NH with Barnes and Halangahu. To summarize it became clear given the game plan of the Tahs they have sleected and retained entirely the wrong people over a very long time. It is plainly obvious that neither Barnes nor Halangahu can consistently kick the ball from hand with any sort of accuracy. Yet the game plan obviously calls for tactical kicking and the structure of the backs along with the construction of a very dominant forward pack, if a bit ponderous.

The discussion went along the lines of the Tahs would have been so much better served by retaining (or even selecting for Tahs) players like Parkes and Malone. Both players have demonstrated in the NH a very solid kicking game. The fact that they are not extremely gifted runners of the ball is no big deal given the game plan of the Tahs and the fact that a second play maker (as is so in flavour in Oz) can be one of that type such as the Tahs had with Beale.

The point is that there have been quite a few very good 10s developed in NSW they just never got a start because they weren't "running" players. Funny how they dont play a "running" game.

Now before the usual candidates come along and blast me for their perception that this is a demand for a "running" game, it is not. What it is, is a criticism of selectors for signing players that do not suit the game plan they will be playing.

Is it a case that the case that their is no real forethought in who they select with the thought to make a cohesive balanced whole with a view to the game plan they will be playing? It certainly seems to be the case IMO.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Do you think guys like Parkes or Harris or Malone were naturally tactical kickers, or did their time in the NH under their respective NH coaches guide them to that skill set?

 

[Gnostic]

Do you think guys like Parkes or Harris or Malone were naturally tactical kickers, or did their time in the NH under their respective NH coaches guide them to that skill set?

If you had seen them in the Shute before they left they were already very good and consistently accurate & effective kickers. I have no doubt from the effusive praise for them in this role in the North they improved further. I have always wondered with the Tahs forward pack and game plan why they didn't go for Malone especially. I know the answer will revolve around him not being perceived as a runner, but he is and was at least as good as Hangers in that aspect, a better defender and infinitely better kicker than either Barnes or Hangers. I make that comparison from their performances at the same level in the Shute.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think that the administration wold see it as some kind of admission of failure if they were to recruit/foster/select players who were not perceived as running 5/8s.
Do you class Hanga as a running 5/8? I dont.
I reckon it might be an inferiority complex: a big criticism of league followers who sometimes look at union is the amount of kicking. If they picked a noted kicker this would only give them more ammunition.
It is a persuasive analysis of an (perhaps the) issue with the Tahs.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

One of the problems I see is that the Tahs don't seem tomhave any young guns coming through or getting their chances in Super rugby. I'm talking about the 20-22 year olds that add some energy and excitement with their involvement. Qld have a few (Shipperly, Sautia, Gill, Sam lane, Ben Lucas), ACT have a few (Hoper, Leiliafano, Tomane, Mogg), Rebels have a few (Neville, Pyle, Lachlan Mitchell) and the Force have a couple (Pocock, Tupou). NSW only have Horne and Kingston, NSW o into each year with the same personnel and get the same effort and results on the field