What is wrong with the Tahs

[Richo]

No, a coach shouldn't rip into his players publicly, but he does need to set the tone on accountability. I don't see the point of lamenting another one that got away when your team needed a bonus point win to be in contention. Tell the media that the performance was unacceptable, tell them that you don't consider that to be a good enough display of rugby, tell them that you won't tolerate anything except a dominant victory next week.

Granted, the media can and will quote selectively, but in the RugbyHeaven article Foley says:

- they "did a lot right in that game"
- it's "frustrating for everybody"
- very few teams win at Newlands
- he's disappointed but "proud of the boys and what they put in there"
- they had a plan to disrupt the Stormers which they went about doing "pretty well"
- they won the second half but "probably left ourselves a little too much to do after the first half"
- there may have been a few kicks that were the wrong option, but says the "boys tried to interpret the situation well"
- he's annoyed about the second ball on the field (justifiably so, IMO) and some other decisions

Not all of this is bad but to me it speaks of someone afraid to place real demands on his teams. What is so bad about saying "We did have a game plan to control territory and put the Stormers under pressure with contestable kicks, but obviously we executed that poorly." Maybe he speaks bluntly and honestly to the players and if so, good. But what most fans see is someone with their head in the sand.

 

[en_force_er]

To play devil's advocate, the Waratahs worked their asses off. Not effectively but they worked their asses off.

For a coach who is there day in and day out seeing (and being a part of) the effort the boys put in I see no issue with him being proud of their endeavour rather than their execution.

Nothing wrong with recognising that everybody worked hard but didn't get the chocolates.

 

[Richo]

I agree. It's the other part that's missing.

 

[I like to watch]

Hang on, are we talking about a professional rugby unit or the local under 13d's?
I'm really proud that you guys tried today, is great with the kid's.
not OK for pro's.
A winning culture focuses on execution, not effort.
Listen to his post match interviews, they are all about excuses.
Winners don't look for excuses, or even mention them.

 

[cyclopath]

I agree with Gnostic with one caveat. The Tahs actually have been close to beating a few of the top teams - Bulls, Highlanders, Reds etc. Mainly, I think, because they have some good players, and have been putting in plenty of effort, albeit not particularly well focussed.
BUT, the way they are going about it is, I agree, flawed, and they need to seriously shake things up in the organisation. They won't get far with this approach, and at best, they are a mid-table side at the moment. If they want to win most of the close games they have had (and there's been a few this year) they need to change. Then they will be a contender, rather than a side that can mess with any team, but mostly lose to them.

 

[wamberal]

Good point, I was thinking exactly the same thing when sautia scored.
No way would the Tahs have given him a run.
We have the young guys, but don't have the nuts to give them a run.

What about Beale? A similarly touted schoolboy star, destined for great things from the age of 14, straight into the team first year out of school.

 

[I like to watch]

I am really banging on about the post Link era, Hickey & Foley were/are too conservative to risk young uns.
Why we signed 2 old banged up players(Vickerman & elsom) instead of young guys with a future sums up the thinking IMO.

 

[wamberal]

Link was pretty conservative, too. Remember him putting Turinui onto Habana instead of Lachie Turner, who was having a storming club season?


I don't think it is all down to the coach, selection, etc. Perhaps it is a cultural problem, Sydney is a very big city, it must be difficult to build a good team culture, compared to places like Canberra, Brisbane, Perth, and even Melbourne (low expectations and the thrill of being in a start-up). Sydney fans have a lot more choice, obviously are not satisfied with anything except success, oh and make the game exciting as well as winning, please.

 

[fatprop]

I am really banging on about the post Link era, Hickey & Foley were/are too conservative to risk young uns.
Why we signed 2 old banged up players(Vickerman & elsom) instead of young guys with a future sums up the thinking IMO.

Yep just look at the EPS units Grayson Hart, Lopeti Timani, Lotu Taukeiah, Nathan Trist, & Tevita Metuisela. Lopeti is the only unit who could be considered a "development" player.

 

[It is what it is]

Save your energy, forget week by week diagnosis of the Waratah's efforts.......just use reports from any of the last 5 or so years and change the date.
When a player or team has the ball, there are only 3 options;
- Kick it
- Pass it
- Run it
Today, the Waratah's players cannot effectively kick or pass or run the ball.
The best coaches are brutal on their players and teams executing these basics UNDER PRESSURE.
Let's all regroup when Foley or the next coach have achieved executional competency in these basics.
Only then, can we expect the Waratahs to be able to play rugby.
After that, comes playing rugby well etc etc

 

[waratahjesus]

Yep just look at the EPS units Grayson Hart, Lopeti Timani, Lotu Taukeiah, Nathan Trist, & Tevita Metuisela. Lopeti is the only unit who could be considered a "development" player.

With only 5 players in the EPS it's not really an accurate picture of development is it, the junior Tahs would surely be a better place to start.

 

[fatprop]

With only 5 players in the EPS it's not really an accurate picture of development is it, the junior Tahs would surely be a better place to start.

I looks like a metaphor for the approach, instead of looking to the future - someone who could be a future Wallaby, pick a safe squad player. That seems to be someone who has been in other programs and been cut.

 

[It is what it is]

I looks like a metaphor for the approach, instead of looking to the future - someone who could be a future Wallaby, pick a safe squad player. That seems to be someone who has been in other programs and been cut.

Or the Waratahs persist with a player like Jeremy Tilse for 6 years. He hasn't developed and still struggles at scrum time after all this time in the system with Wallaby scrummaging coaches etc. Even his own club pick him in 2nd grade sometimes.
6 years and 3 coaches later, Tilse is still on the books but only used in dire emergencies.
Use him or move him on, but make a bloody call.

 

[waratahjesus]

Or the Waratahs persist with a player like Jeremy Tilse for 6 years. He hasn't developed and still struggles at scrum time after all this time in the system with Wallaby scrummaging coaches etc. Even his own club pick him in 2nd grade sometimes.
6 years and 3 coaches later, Tilse is still on the books but only used in dire emergencies.
Use him or move him on, but make a bloody call.

But if the move tilse on and he performs it will be because he left the Tahs not because of the coaching and effort that been put into him holistically.

Maybe another young prop should step up and show the Tahs that there more worthy of the spot than him.

 

[mjw]

I think it is crap to argue about lack of development players when each Australian squad has been cut this year by the ARU. And complaining about Elsom and Vickerman is great in hindsight but noone would argue against them if fitness was not a problem.
The Tahs this year have lacked the brilliance of Beale, Mitchell and maybe Burgess. Without them they have been dull. Lots of complaints last year about Tahs too when they scored most tries.
I will judge them when they have their best side on the park.

 

[I like to watch]

The reduced squad size has necessitated that many of the franchises had to pluck young uns from outside their squad into the starting side.

The Tahs have had so many injuries they cannot be blamed for their poor performance, but not too many injuries that they need to bring young guys in?

You are only allowed 30 signings and you make two of them 30+ years old and both carrying injuries that you know will make them unavailable for the 1st half of the season? And then you want to blame an injury toll on your shit performance?

Sorry, I meant your good performance, with less than admirable results,

 

[It is what it is]

But if the move tilse on and he performs it will be because he left the Tahs not because of the coaching and effort that been put into him holistically.

Maybe another young prop should step up and show the Tahs that there more worthy of the spot than him.

WaratahJesus, stop drinking the Kool-Aid!
Review your 1st reply sentence above "But if the move tilse on and he performs it will be because he left the Tahs not because of the coaching and effort that been put into him holistically"
What the living bejesus are you trying to say?
It must be difficult writing with one eye so Blue.
I'll say it again 6 years AND 3 coaches later and NSW still haven't determined whether Tilse can play or not.....it only took FWA 4 years to get an enquiry completed on Thomson!
Instead of as you say, 'another young prop stepping up' how about the Waratahs get rid of Tilse, get off their backsides and either go find a prop who can play now or urgently develop one that can play Super Rugby within 12 months.

 

[mjw]

You are only allowed 30 signings and you make two of them 30+ years old and both carrying injuries that you know will make them unavailable for the 1st half of the season?

Rocky is still 29. And no, noone knew they would be unavailable for major part of season.

 

[PaarlBok]

Nothing wrong with the Tahs. If they have problems the Reds have bigger problems.

 

[tranquility]

Rocky is still 29. And no, noone knew they would be unavailable for major part of season.

Huh???? He has played about 5 super matches in three years...