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What is wrong with the Tahs

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waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
That response implicitly accepts that they suffer no more injuries than any other team in s. 15.
So that excuse is gone for the 17 years.
Next?

This is my point about perception, you say the Tahs always have injuries, yet I'm only talking about this year, the argument can also be made for last though.

Why is it not an excuse for 17 years? Why isn't it only "one reason" (not an excuse as there are still 15 players on the field) when it is relevant.

Why are years the Tahs have had great success nit recognized as such but simply plaster over cracks?

Why is every year of the Tahs lumped together in one basket and not judged individually on whats happening that is relevant to there performance?
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
I think some of tne Tah players are over-rated and so when they're playing, they're considered to be out of form when they are actually about as good as they usually are, and whe they are injured, it's deemed that an important cog in the machine is missing eg. Barnes, Lachie Tarner, Elsom, Horne.

Just a small thing....

It doesn't matter how a player is rated,it matters as to what they provide for a side. Barnes, Elsom, Turner and Horne all provide an important part for the Tahs, simply saying there over-rated is an easy cop out.

There the players the Tahs have, there capable of more than they provide at times, but Kessler as individuals and more as a team.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
In talking about Sydney Uni-developed players at the Waratahs, one thing that is completely unrecognised is the diametrically opposed systems of physical training at the two locations. Uni players from Colts onward do very heavy strength training year-round, including crucially right throughout the playing season, and make extensive use of specialised apparatus. The Waratahs' S & Cs totally reject this approach. Uni teams are renowned for their dominance towards the end of matches; I can't recall the Waratahs ever being accused of this.
.

An excellent point, Bruce, that you're written about before, I believe. This speaks to my point about sustained performance. If it is the case that the Tahs do try a Uni-type pack-dominance / recycle game, then your comment suggests an even more discombobulated approach to it.
 

Ghibli

Ted Thorn (20)
I would like to know the criteria that all teams are judged on so it can be applied tp all teams. It's not a generalization, it's a very broad and open question that I would love your honest opinion on.

My comment was about taking the views of one or more supporters of a particular franchise as representative of that franchise's support base.

The particular passage was
So in response
Brumbies fans believe
*injuries don't matter
*if a side has more wallabies than another they should be favorites
*that NSW is a talent drain
*that NSW fail to develop players

Injuries don't matter
Injuries do matter. All S15 have them, some more some less, and they affect team performances. Injuries, however, should not affect how hard the remaining players tackle, nor diminish their enthusiasm or hunger to win. In my view, the remaining Tahs players do not show any hunger/desperation to win.

If a side has more wallabies than another they should be favourites
This is a point pushed to exasperation by rugby writers particularly in the SMH & the Oz. To me, this is an empty statemement. Reputation count for nothing on the pitch, it only matters how hard you play and how well you play as a team. After a season of frustrating performances last year, I was in seven heaven when the Brumbies go rid of the dead wood wallaby contingent. I like hungry players who have something to prove, not satisfied "stars" who play two great games per year and then continue to expect selection & high wages.

NSW is a telent drain
NSW is a huge rugby talent pool and have developed a very large number of players. The Tahs are a talent drain.

NSW fails to develop players
see point above.

If the Tahs wanna get out of their slumber, they've gotta get their heads out of their arse, eat humble pie and start being honest with themselves and their supporters.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
The problem with the Tahs is they fail to acknowledge that they have a problem. They seem to like giving the elusion they are trying, like having a fan forum and only allowing 120 people. They need a truly honest assesment of themselves and eat some humble pie. Then and only then will they be able to build a brighter future. The precident in Australian Rugby has been set that it can be done.
 

Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
Then I honestly believe you're an idiot.

The Tahs have a lot of problems but to put them down to location is wrong. Even if there was a Sydney superiority complex, do you honestly believe they wouldn't have had it beaten out of them through years of repeated failure?
Well that's what I'm implying with "complex" it isn't rational.

Fuck the inferiority complex, lose the chip.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury; I rest my case.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Well that's what I'm implying with "complex" it isn't rational.



Ladies and gentlemen of the jury; I rest my case.
Rest it somewhere else. You add nothing but sniping to this thread. Making inflammatory statements about superiority complexes was designed with one purpose, and you got what, I'm sure, you expected.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
This is my point about perception, you say the Tahs always have injuries, yet I'm only talking about this year, the argument can also be made for last though.

Why is it not an excuse for 17 years? Why isn't it only "one reason" (not an excuse as there are still 15 players on the field) when it is relevant.

Why are years the Tahs have had great success nit recognized as such but simply plaster over cracks?

Why is every year of the Tahs lumped together in one basket and not judged individually on whats happening that is relevant to there performance?

Because, according to you, injuries result from it being a contact sport. Since everyone in s 15 is involved in the same contact sport they must all be exposed to the same risks of injury.
What years have they had great success? And what did they do in the very year they had the only real measure of success they've ever had.........sacked the coach!
What the hell was i thinking - how could that be a culture issue - everyone sacks their most successful coach - theyre falling over themselves to sack successful coaches.
As for your last paragraph: everything else has been changed in 17 years (except maybe the balls - hold on everyone plays with Gilberts in s15) but not the culture.

WJ I dont think you want the Tahs to change otherwise you'd be saying nothing else has worked maybe it is the culture.
 

Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
Rest it somewhere else. You add nothing but sniping to this thread. Making inflammatory statements about superiority complexes was designed with one purpose, and you got what, I'm sure, you expected.

Just because you choose to react vitriolically to my suggestion, doesn't make it incorrect. In fact, if it's not something you're willing to consider, then that makes it all the more likely that it is, in some way, a contributor.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Just because you choose to react vitriolically to my suggestion, doesn't make it incorrect. In fact, if it's not something you're willing to consider, then that makes it all the more likely that it is, in some way, a contributor.
Just because you post something inane, does not mean I need to endorse it. I think my, and Jnor's responses were reflective of how we considered your input. I think it reflects your disdain for anything to do with NSW, which is a constant theme with your posts.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think it's prety clear what's wrong with the Waratahs...

They are... Waratahs.

Delicate flowers...

Maybe they need to be rebranded?

;)
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
The Sydney Uni thing is interesting. For the Tahs it is deemed an issue, for other sides, it isn't ( they all have a Uni contingent)

Watching the Rebels with their "Uni coach" and "Uni players" I saw width, hitting the ball at pace and defensive passion

With the Tahs, it is Style of play, lack of width, lack of speed to action, lack of urgency, lack of defensive effort, lack of effort off the ball - "Uni" nah
No one suggests that the Tahs play "Uni Footy" well, the Tahs can't kick for shit either.
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
Passion!!!! for the Jersey, and that is not just the players it is also the supporters.
I'd much rather watch the shute shield were 4th - 1st grade team up and play for their club with passion.
It is not just union, take the State of Origin as another example.
Can we can complain about injuries?
Look at the Brumbies - ä team" - I'd be interested if the NSW selectors at the start of the season would have selected them if they had first choice?
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
In answer to the title of this thread: taking Drew Mitchell to South Africa with his leg still in a brace.
Yeah, I am of the opinion that there is little point bringing Drew back in at the moment.
Of course, the medical staff know better than us, but I'm not convinced it's going to be a great idea.
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
In answer to the title of this thread: taking Drew Mitchell to South Africa with his leg still in a brace.

There may well be merit in this particular piece of madness, IS. It's about time our coaches indulged in a bit of lateral thinking. Lord knows they're not having much success with direct thinking.

I reckon the Saffa wingers would think twice about tackling him low.
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waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
The problem with the Tahs is they fail to acknowledge that they have a problem. They seem to like giving the elusion they are trying, like having a fan forum and only allowing 120 people. They need a truly honest assesment of themselves and eat some humble pie. Then and only then will they be able to build a brighter future. The precident in Australian Rugby has been set that it can be done.

Sorry, having a fan forum for feedback and talking honestly about problems is wrong due to the size o the forum? They drew 16000 to a game, 120 to a talk fest is a good turn out.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
Because, according to you, injuries result from it being a contact sport. Since everyone in s 15 is involved in the same contact sport they must all be exposed to the same risks of injury.
What years have they had great success? And what did they do in the very year they had the only real measure of success they've ever had.........sacked the coach!
What the hell was i thinking - how could that be a culture issue - everyone sacks their most successful coach - theyre falling over themselves to sack successful coaches.
As for your last paragraph: everything else has been changed in 17 years (except maybe the balls - hold on everyone plays with Gilberts in s15) but not the culture.

WJ I dont think you want the Tahs to change otherwise you'd be saying nothing else has worked maybe it is the culture.

I think you are missing my point.

To judge a team on the field, let's start from the beginning.

*they have a squad of thirty
- u can judge recruitment, retention, balance, speculate on performance
*they play a game
-you can judge performance based on a variable of conditions, opposition, etc
-you can judge coaching through game plan and execution

Wy is what happened in the last 17 years relevant to that performance?

As with injuries, every player in every team is at risk if them sure.
TPN - knocked out being tackled
McCutch-broken ankle in a tackle
Fitzpatrick- knee in a tackle
Alcock - appendix
Rocky - hamstring (but don't count as it's existing although the staff so far have managed his return well)
Mitchell - broken ankle in tackle
Turner - hamstring during game

Which of these selections of injuries is the Tahs fault?
It's a factor, it's a variable, it's not every year, it should be judged on when it happens.

I want the Tahs to win, but I believe the comments about no passion or excuses are excessive.

P.s. They sacked Ewen cos so many people complained about the way he coached. they listened to fans and commentators who knew better. Not for pollitics.
 
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