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Western Force 2013

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mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Some sports administrators offer top players some decision making power/s or say, instead of more coin... Player power was invented by managers and coaches not players... However Brumbies did win a super rugby championship during one of these called player power years…
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Some sports administrators offer top players some decision making power/s or say, instead of more coin. Player power was invented by managers and coaches not players. However Brumbies did win a super rugby championship during one of these called player power years…

I'd also say that a guy (shall we use Larkham as an example) doesn't instantly become a talented coach the day he leaves the game. He probably knows a thing or two about coaching as a senior player as well.

Plenty of players know plenty about rugby, you don't have to retire to understand what decisions need to be made.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
As another point, why would a board fire themselves?

Sure, from a cynical standpoint they don't want to lose their jobs but from a fairer point of view they are successful people who have climbed the corporate ladder and probably honestly believe they have the talent to turn the place around.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
I'd also say that a guy (shall we use Larkham as an example) doesn't instantly become a talented coach the day he leaves the game. He probably knows a thing or two about coaching as a senior player as well.

Plenty of players know plenty about rugby, you don't have to retire to understand what decisions need to be made.

For the same reason unions don't run companies and militaries have soldiers and officers....

For all intensive purposes the players may have the best intentions at heart, but is the player group really going to make the difficult calls like giving Mowen the captaincy over Moore, or sacking a senior player who is under performing?
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
For the same reason unions don't run companies and militaries have soldiers and officers..

For all intensive purposes the players may have the best intentions at heart, but is the player group really going to make the difficult calls like giving Mowen the captaincy over Moore, or sacking a senior player who is under performing?

I respect your opinion and there's not like there isn't any truth to it but I think it could be argued that go in the player power box (i.e. who is best to lead us this year, are we overtraining) and things that don't (i.e. squad recruitments).

EDIT: Yes I said are we overtraining, that bs about the Tahs under performing because they managed key players' workloads in the preseason is rubbish. There's a reason Weepu peaks in midseason (match fitness) and the Tahs only went backwards from that point.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
The reason Weepu peaks mid season, is because that's how long it takes them to get the fat prick fit.
It is a disgrace that they allow a professional footballer be so overweight and unfit at the commencement of the season.
There is a reason why he was moved on last year.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
The reason Weepu peaks mid season, is because that's how long it takes them to get the fat prick fit.
It is a disgrace that they allow a professional footballer be so overweight and unfit at the commencement of the season.
There is a reason why he was moved on last year.

That was the point I was making. Late in the season some (mostly in the media) were blaming the Tah's woes on a light preseason.
 

Ghibli

Ted Thorn (20)
Wholeheartedly agree Ghibli!

It seems that when the cycle of player power is broken those teams become successful, Reds 2010/2012 and Brumbies 2012.

So whilst it might seem doom and gloom for the Force, if the changes are such that the dynamics within the organisation changes so that the Administration controls the business, the coaches coach and the players work hard and follow the team plan then maybe all is not lost for the medium term future of the Force.

Indeed LB41, player power brings grief for everyone except the players, talented teams languishing middle of the ladder because underperforming "stars" will never bench themselves, and the coach is too scared to make hard decisions and get the sack.

The Brums were diabolical in 2011 in that respect.

If Pocock leaves the Force, it may in fact turn out for the Force the same way that it did for the Reds when Berrick Barnes left - a blessing in disguise, provided the Force's CEO moves on as well.
 
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Linebacker_41

Guest
Funny that two brumbies players accused of said violations of player power are now assistant coaches, weird dynamic.

It is funny I have spoken to a couple of past players now in rugby administration positions as well as some administrators that were around back when these past players were still playing.

It seems that a leopard can change their spots or is it more that the leopard changes into a tiger!
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Funny that two brumbies players accused of said violations of player power are now assistant coaches, weird dynamic.

Yrrr & both chaps are massive under achievers... As for Nucifora he wasnt sacked, the Brumbies board just didn't renew his contract, he had management issues... the Brumbies chose to move on to a new coach, they also said so during the season well prior to the team winning the championship that year which made Ncifora look hard done by, but the reality was he contract time was up... Laurie Fisher who has returned successfully as Forwards coach from munster became the next Brumbies head coach after David Nucifora...
 

Ghibli

Ted Thorn (20)
As for Nucifora he wasnt sacked, the Brumbies board just didn't renew his contract

Never said he was.
To say that the board was responsible for not renewing his contracts trivialises the reality that player power precipitated the demise of Nucifora.
And player power ensured that the Brumbies recruited average Head Coaches (noting that Fisher is a very good fwd coach) and remained in a black hole for the next seven years.
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Never said he was.
To say that the board was responsible for not renewing his contracts trivialises the reality that player power precipitated the demise of Nucifora.
And player power ensured that the Brumbies recruited average Head Coaches (noting that Fisher is a very good fwd coach) and remained in a black hole for the next seven years.

Black hole? for many years the Brumbies did just as well as they did this year finishing between 5 -7th on the table... For the record the players dont write contracts the executive/board does, Nucifora lost support on many levels... Players dont have to support a coach that they have lost faith in.... Laurie Fisher is a well liked and good local coach... He's doing a great job with the lads in 2012...

As for the Black hole that was created by the Force...
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
Western Force resigned to losing skipper David Pocock to Brumbies as coaching hunt continues
348776-david-pocock.jpg


A sense of dread is growing at Western Force that the Super Rugby club has run out of ways of persuading David Pocock to stay and that it is only a matter of time before the Wallabies captain announces he is joining the Brumbies.

Force officials are conferring with Pocock on a daily basis but their earlier optimism that he had far more reasons to stay in Perth than to go has given way to grim resignation.
As one Force source told The Australian: "It's almost as though he has made up his mind but can't bring himself to tell us that he's leaving."
The departure of Pocock at the same time as foundation captain Nathan Sharpe's retirement from Super Rugby - all of this overlaying the loss of coach Richard Graham to Queensland Reds and the increasingly drawn-out saga of finding his replacement - would create a perfect storm for Force.
Officials are adamant the club is strong enough to ride out the tempest but the public's perception would be of a team spiralling out of relevance.
Certainly his departure would free up a considerable portion of the salary cap but by this late stage in the season all the big names of Australian rugby are already locked in with other franchises and the Force would need to head-hunt a high-profile international player to minimise the damage.

But Pocock is so much more to the Force than merely a world-class openside flanker.

He is inspirational leader and highly-regarded role model, a 24-year-old finalist for Young Australian of the Year who has established his own charity and spoken out publicly on issues such as global warming and the plight of his former countrymen in Zimbabwe.
No overseas recruit, no matter how well-credentialled, could possibly fill all the roles Pocock plays in Perth.
Yet at the end of the day Pocock is a professional rugby player and joining the Brumbies in Canberra is starting to look like his smartest career move.
It would expose him to the coaching of Rugby World Cup-winning former Springboks coach Jake White who, in just one season, has taken the Brumbies from the laughing stock end of the Super Rugby table to the cusp of the finals.
That the Brumbies fell at the final hurdle, allowing the Australian conference win to slip through their fingers with their last-round loss to the Blues, has hardly diminished White's exceptional coaching achievement.
The Force, by contrast, is having nothing but dramas finding a coach to take over from Graham.
Heineken Cup-winning former Leinster coach Michael Cheika was offered the job but turned it down, leading to speculation New South Wales Waratahs coach Michael Foley would pass the poisoned chalice to someone else and quit Sydney to move to Perth.
But the fact Foley has made no such announcement nearly two weeks after the Waratahs wound up their Super Rugby season suggests he too has decided to pass on the Force offer and remain with NSW.
Indications are John Mulvihill, the former Force assistant coach under John Mitchell, will not be brought back, so unless former Ireland Test coach Eddie O'Sullivan suddenly resurfaces as a contender it is difficult to know where the club will find a credible coach to pull the side together.
Most observers had assumed Pocock was playing a central role in choosing a new coach but it is understood that while he has been appraised of every development and given his approval to all the names on Force's short list, he is remaining at arm's length from the process.
That said, the club already has acted on some of his requests to beef up its football department.
Officials still are hoping Pocock will simply find it too painful to turn his back on the club he joined as a foundation player in 2005.
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
"Yet at the end of the day Pocock is a professional rugby player and joining the Brumbies in Canberra is starting to look like his smartest career move."

Jezz the guy has been at the Force since 2005! He's given the force plenty, I think he is due for a change... Moving to the Brumbies will help prolong his career...He'll be a good fit there. Furthermore If he is to become the long term Wallabies captain he'll need to be in a sucessful team located closer to the ARU HQ for media work...
 
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Linebacker_41

Guest
I would think it ironic if the Force lose Pocock. Not because of anything to do with either the Brumbies or the Force mind you.

The ARU have been insistent on bringing in a salary cap to ensure the even spread of talent across the 5 teams in Australia and it is not working.

One could argue that the Reds have the lions share although the Tahs would equally have a similar argument based on their representation for the Wallabies.

It seems the current "Employers of Choice" in Australian rugby are the Reds and the Brumbies. People want to go (or stay) there as it is believed they have the best program and will sacrifice money in order to win. Similarly in SA players migrate to Bulls and Stormers and to a lesser extent the Sharks. In NZ it is the Crusaders and swaps around between the Chiefs, Hurricanes and Blues (although the later is on the nose at the moment).

The Force CEO saying that they dont need to make radical changes in akin to the captain of the Titanic believing that the ship isnt sinking. With the tyranny of distance a major factor the Force have to get their program to world-class level and soon. Otherwise the Southern Kings will be the 15th Super Rugby team. Dont think for a second that NZ and SA wont gang up on this because both (NZ in particular) need to protect their revenues and the recent Cru v Force game was terrible in terms of crowd attendance.

Come on ARU/WARU get your heads together and fix this so that we can have 5 competitive teams in 2013. Think more broadly than $$$$s and get the right backroom staff to drive a truly high performance program resulting in a competitive Force team.
 

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
The thing that really screws us is the lack of a local academy (thanks ARU) or a third tier competition (thanks ARU) or more funding for our local competition (thanks ARU). Anything that helps to develop local players. Anything that undermines WA's ability to produce players undermines the viability of a franchise in Perth.

It makes a lot of sense to have a team here. Junior numbers have consistently increased since the Force's inception (apparently up 10% on last year). There is no current competition from Rugby League. The broadcasters want a team in Perth. I hope that the more dire things get for the Force the more our insular supporters will latch on Connacht style.
 
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