Western Force 2009

[fatprop]

Woodcock ain't a THP, Williams has already signed with Auckland

 

[RugbyReg]

I'd still take woodcock over Hardy any day.

 

[fatprop]

I'd still take woodcock over Hardy any day.

Agreed but as the opps LHP sticks the Force THP through the wringer Woodcocks skills will be negated

 

[RugbyReg]

Still, not a bad way to train up AJ and co. Live scrums against him every week.

 

[Cutter]

I dont like that the ARU is targetting Kiwis. Of all the complaints that have been made against JON, this is the most serious in my view. Fair enough anyone living in Oz who has Kiwi relatives, but not the types of player who have no link to Oz at all. Without a healthy AB team, the Wallabies will be nothing. We cant sell out tests against anyone else. Its cannibalising the long term health of the game for possible short term gain.

Would it be ok for Terry Jenner to invite young Indians, Englishmen, South Africans, Pakis etc to play for NSW, QLD etc with a view to them gaining Australian residency and turning out in the baggy green? Its the same thing. If they voluntarily move here and want the baggy green its a completely different story but to target them is wrong. The extremes of professionalism are a sickness the game can do without.

 

[brokendown gunfighter]

Aussie Clyde?
Topo?


oops-well they look like Kiwis

 

[Sully]

I dont like that the ARU is targetting Kiwis. Of all the complaints that have been made against JON, this is the most serious in my view. Fair enough anyone living in Oz who has Kiwi relatives, but not the types of player who have no link to Oz at all. Without a healthy AB team, the Wallabies will be nothing. We cant sell out tests against anyone else. Its cannibalising the long term health of the game for possible short term gain.

Would it be ok for Terry Jenner to invite young Indians, Englishmen, South Africans, Pakis etc to play for NSW, QLD etc with a view to them gaining Australian residency and turning out in the baggy green? Its the same thing. If they voluntarily move here and want the baggy green its a completely different story but to target them is wrong. The extremes of professionalism are a sickness the game can do without.

Why not most of them live here anyway.

 

[Cutter]

Aussie Clyde?
Topo?


oops-well they look like Kiwis

I think its wrong to do it to any country, not just the kiwis. If those two chose to come to Australia and then rugby became a priority, I have no problem. If we lured them over because they were rugby players I dont approve.

Why not most of them live here anyway.

If they already live here its a different story. I am talking about flying to NZ, looking at promising players and offering them contracts. If that is what is happening, we shouldnt be doing it.

Radike Samo should have had 30 or 40 caps for Fiji instead of one or two for the Wallabies. We should be encouraging and supporting other nations not pillaging their talent.

 

[Lee Grant]

Samo is not a good example. He left Fiji for NZ as a young man, played over there and got in provincial U/21 squad IIRRR, then found his way over here and settled down in Canberra. The Brumbies picked him as a local player. Fiji could have picked him for their 2003 RWC squad but didn't. He was very disappointed by all accounts, but wasn't playing well enough then to be selected for the Wallabies.

Then he had his stellar year in 2004 and Fiji picked him for their squad in the Pacific competition. Since this started about 3 weeks before the Wallabies were playing their first test of the winter their selections were made earlier.

When Eddie Jones saw the Fiji squad he had a word to Radike and he decided to go with the Wallabies.

I think the ARU would have given him dispensation to keep playing in the S14 had he gone with Fiji because they had given it to Raulini a few years earlier because he was a resident of Brisbane.

Samo got dumped by the Wallabies but it was on form.

I can't agree with going to NZ and getting youngsters either. There are enough that come here with their families anyway as nippers.

 

[formeropenside]

Part of the problem with the Samo case is that the IRB dont allow a "disclaimer" and (possibly) eligibility period once a player has represented one country. Certainly Samo should in my view be able to disclaim any future Wallaby selection and be eligible for Fiji.

 

[Spook]

Part of the problem with the Samo case is that the IRB dont allow a "disclaimer" and (possibly) eligibility period once a player has represented one country. Certainly Samo should in my view be able to disclaim any future Wallaby selection and be eligible for Fiji.

Should be like a rule saying if you've played less than 10 tests for your adopted country, you can play for your native country but not another adopted nation.

 

[Cutter]

Part of the problem with the Samo case is that the IRB dont allow a "disclaimer" and (possibly) eligibility period once a player has represented one country. Certainly Samo should in my view be able to disclaim any future Wallaby selection and be eligible for Fiji.

Should be like a rule saying if you've played less than 10 tests for your adopted country, you can play for your native country but not another adopted nation.

I disagree. I dont want the same absurd situation arising for rugby as has arisen for this league world cup. That is a disaster and shows international league as a joke. Rugby doesnt need to go down that path.

 

[TOCC]

I think that if a player hasnt represented his addopted country in more then 24months then
he should be allowed to represent his country of birth

 

[RugbyReg]

agreed TOCC. Thus the likes of Samo and Kefu and Tawake can all play for whichever of the Pac Nations is relevant (well Tawake would have to wait another 12 months). But it would only be available to those wishing to represent 2nd tier nations. How we define that, well I don't know.

 

[Lee Grant]

I wrote on the other forum about 5 years ago an idea that still has merit IMO.

A player who has played test matches for Country 1 can play for Country 2 provided:

- He is otherwise eligible for Country 2
- Dispensation is given by Country 1
- He has not played for more than one country before
- Country 2 is not a high ranked test nation.

There could be quibbles about who is a high ranked nation; so that could be tidied up with reference to their standings in the IRB rankings at the time. The IRB would have to nominate what ranking is the cut off point.

Joe Rock and Tuqiri are idols in Fiji - imagine if they could play for them at the end of their careers if they were still good enough and were wanted.

But on the other hand a young Fijian who had already played for Fiji could never play for the All Blacks or Wallabies.

This assumes that NZ and Oz are high ranked at the time.

 

[TOCC]

I wrote on the other forum about 5 years ago an idea that still has merit IMO.

A player who has played test matches for Country 1 can play for Country 2 provided:

- He is otherwise eligible for Country 2
- Dispensation is given by Country 1
- He has not played for more than one country before
- Country 2 is not a high ranked test nation.

There could be quibbles about who is a high ranked nation; so that could be tidied up with reference to their standings in the IRB rankings at the time. The IRB would have to nominate what ranking is the cut off point.

Joe Rock and Tuqiri are idols in Fiji - imagine if they could play for them at the end of their careers if they were still good enough and were wanted.

But on the other hand a young Fijian who had already played for Fiji could never play for the All Blacks or Wallabies.

This assumes that NZ and Oz are high ranked at the time.

that could work, but i think they really need to have family links to the country, i mean if those were they rules, what is to stop Japan buying the 15 best up and coming rugby players from all over the world, waiting 3 years and then having a awsome international side.

there should be two rules, the player must have family links(same rules as now, grandparents etc) to the country and it must also be a 'lower'(as mentiond above) ranked country.

This would be great for countries like the pacific islands, many players like Samo would get the chance to represent there 'home' country without the threat of bigger nations like Japan and England poaching players.

 

[Lee Grant]

I'm not averse to letting a player with no family links to Country 2 being able to play for them if they are otherwise eligible i.e. if he had 3 years residence playing rugby there.

Don't forget that in my scenario Country 2 would have to get the blessing of Country 1 to use a player that had played for Country 1 before. Players that are released would be past their best. If Country 1 didn't need them any more I see no reason to disqualify them from playing test rugby for a lowly ranked nation if that nation thinks the released player would be of benefit to them.

And using a limit of one switch per rugby lifetime would stop players being test match journeymen.

I think it's win-win. I doubt if there would ever be a situation where Country 2 signs up 15 guys or even half that number. As for Japan being such a country: such a thing would never be countenanced as it would block pathways for local players, long term. Sure they use a few now and always have but Japanese national rugby politics would stop them loading their teams with foreigners.

 

[RugbyReg]

just an article on Stanford at the 4s

Former Brumbies lock Richard Stanford is a welcome addition to the Emirates Western Force lock brigade and he feels ready to make an impact in the Super 14 competition.

After three years and just six caps with the Brumbies, the 198cm, 110kg 22-year-old is hopeful of receiving some opportunities from coach John Mitchell and he feels ready to form a terrific lock combination with veteran Nathan Sharpe, and fellow youngsters Tom Hocking and Sam Wykes.

"It's good here with the mix. I've played with Pat O'Connor, Tom Hockings and Pek Cowan before in the 19s and 21s, so to come over and be back with those guys is good," he said.

"I haven?t even met Sharpey to be honest, but I've heard about his great leadership and how he runs the lineout. I'm looking forward to working with him and he certainly has a wealth of experience behind him."

Stanford has now been in training with the Force for several weeks since arriving in WA and is excited about the change he has made, both in and outside of rugby.

"It's good to be back in a full time program again. Last season finished quite a while ago now and the opportunity to come to Perth and start with a new team presents me with a good challenge," he said.

"When I was at the Brumbies I always lived with a teammate but I've decided to keep the two separate this time around. There's still a feeling of something new with this team and I sense since being here a lot of potential in the players and organisation. To be part of that should be a great thing."

While he might not have received the time on the park with the Brumbies he would have liked, he will forever be grateful for the chance to learn off the likes of George Gregan, Stephen Larkham and Jeremy Paul.

"To hang out and train with guys like Gregan, Larkham, Paul and Young was great just to get a feel of their ideas on the game and how they operated in a professional environment was unreal," he said.

"In terms of providing confidence and showing a pathway, Jeremy Paul was probably the best for me."

As for the Force, Stanford is looking forward to playing under John Mitchell and is confident of the Perth-based team making the finals for the first time in 2009.

"I always have better relationships with coaches that are ex-players, especially ones that were forwards like he is so I've enjoyed being around him so far," he said.

"My understanding from watching the Force play was that they lost a few on full time and there seems to be a focus on finishing."

Interesting for a couple of things:

1) the bold bit, looks like the Force PR team is out in, ahhh, force, trying to spin the spiel about players having trouble with Coach Mitchell; and

2) the blurb to the photo attached "New recruits Richard Stanford and Filipe Manu work out in their first EWF training session". So have they signed Manu too? I know he went on their end of season tour.

 

[Lee Grant]

Manu - probably covering for the loss of Scott Fava. who was counter-poached by the Tahs.

 

[TOCC]

yeah filipe manu signed with the Force back in September

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/new...-and-the-mob-why-i-had-to-escape/1323217.aspx

its a article mainly on his brother who plays in the NRL, but it makes brief mention of Filipe signing with the Force