T
Turban
Guest
The force seem to have this horrible habit of luring players by offering them starting jersey's. It was an epic failure with henjak, lets hope it didn't happen this time.
Western Force 2009
- Thread starter Lee Grant
- Start date
- Status
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
gambler
Yeah he's gone to Japan. He told the Force he wanted to play in the 2011 RWC for them and they released him so that he would have a long enough residence there to qualify for their team.
Turban
No S14 franchise would guarantee a player a start in their team. It would depend on trial form.
Yeah he's gone to Japan. He told the Force he wanted to play in the 2011 RWC for them and they released him so that he would have a long enough residence there to qualify for their team.
Turban
No S14 franchise would guarantee a player a start in their team. It would depend on trial form.
T
Turban
Guest
Lee Grant said:
You mean like how the ARU wouldn't garuntee league converts a start in the Wallabies? I must be more cynical than you.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
And Lachlan Mckay? Just wondering who the back up to Gits is. Daruda... anyone else?
Just looked at the tour list... I guess OConnor could cover 10 but would you put such a young kid there?? Thus I think Valentine is actually a very smart purchase. Gives you a solid 9 and a plausible 10 in times of need. Cant think of any other player that would offer the same.
Just looked at the tour list... I guess OConnor could cover 10 but would you put such a young kid there?? Thus I think Valentine is actually a very smart purchase. Gives you a solid 9 and a plausible 10 in times of need. Cant think of any other player that would offer the same.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Turban said:
The Kiwis started this furphy on the other forum and it was fun for them to type out the words.
Of course the ARU would have like the leaguies to make the team to get more bums on seats but I don't think there was anybody brave enough at the ARU to tell Eddie Jones that he had to pick a leaguie. Macqueen would have punched them out as he often did to folks for the Rats when he had a disagreement and Knuckles would have laughed at them.
Stop this Turban - you're being silly.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
I wouldn't be surprised if some of the league converts were practically guaranteed selection in the Wallaby squad, but starting? I find that nearly impossible to believe. The outcry would be ridiculous if a poor convert took the spot of someone in stunning form - you could never see it happening.
In an each way bet I can see the coach being encouraged to pick the big name leaguie - bums on seats and all that. But, to be honest, the only 2 leaguies with the potential for big bums on seats have been Tuqiri and Dell - and Dell outstripped Tuqiri easily in that department. Whilst Dell did have some memorable performances, including a great one for the Wallabies vs England in a losing test, unfortunately union was not the game for him and he never matched his crowd pulling ability.
In an each way bet I can see the coach being encouraged to pick the big name leaguie - bums on seats and all that. But, to be honest, the only 2 leaguies with the potential for big bums on seats have been Tuqiri and Dell - and Dell outstripped Tuqiri easily in that department. Whilst Dell did have some memorable performances, including a great one for the Wallabies vs England in a losing test, unfortunately union was not the game for him and he never matched his crowd pulling ability.
T
Turban
Guest
Ash said:
The ARU could afford to make a promise of a Wallaby jersey, on paper or not, because we didn't have many players screaming for selection on the wing at the time and some that might have nicked off before the S12 season started because they could see the writing on the wall when they saw the size of the contracts these guys got. But I agree it was probably a promise of being in the 22, not the 15.
Lee, I don't think it's silly at all, Henjak was a terrible halfback in many, many games. I think Mitchell is a good coach so why did Henjak continue to be selected? O'Young was excellent in almost everything he did in that first season and the difference in our backs as a unit was noticeable when he was subbed on. He continued his great form in his 2nd season for still no joy and then rightly buggered off when it became clear that he would never get a fair shot at the starting team. Henjak assulted the son of the Force's CEO and O'Young still couldn't get a look in the door, how can that happen?
Drew Mitchell was brought over from the Reds and given a free run at 15 all season despite Cam Shepard being the obvious choice. When that 1st year ended suddenly he was shifted to the wing despite the fact that every man and his dog knew he should never have been left at 15 for the whole first season. Verbal commitments must have been made, It would take a very strong arguement from someone with inside contacts to persuade me otherwise.
T
Turban
Guest
Lee Grant said:
I did change that to a spot in the 22.
T
Turban
Guest
Geez, just make me look petty. If you have something that might change my mind on the fact tell me, I'd love to find out I was wrong. I just have serious doubts about the legitimacy of several Wallabies claim to the jersey and similar issues with the Force. In both cases it was after players where lured away from another code or state.Lee Grant said:
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
Turban said:
That's compelling evidence, Turbs, but I'm not sure of what. How about this: Cueball needs another outside back. DM says - I'll only come if I can play fullback, simple as that. Cueball looks him in the eye and says fair enough - we'll go with that.
So, perhaps it's not as grand a conspiracy as all that.
Tahu provides the opposite evidence. He got dropped from the Tahs when he wanted to play. Looking at his recent form, maybe he should have played.
T
Turban
Guest
Scarfman said:
I don't think it's anymore complex than how you've described. Still pisses me off. I didn't say it was a conspiricay but I do have a tendancy to get carried away and sound like I'm sitting here with a tin foil hat on.
F
formeropenside
Guest
Drew Mitchell made a big point of saying when he left that the money was the same, but at the Force he would have a chance to play fullback, as opposed to being stuck behind Latham at the Reds. Well, due to injury and the ARU, he would have had a chance at the reds too, but thats Karma I suppose.
I dont know why a flake like Mitchell ever thought he was a fullback; accept it, your only skills are running fast and looking pretty: you're a winger.
I dont know why a flake like Mitchell ever thought he was a fullback; accept it, your only skills are running fast and looking pretty: you're a winger.
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Thought I'd resurrect this thread from the dead to post about this:
Another setback for Staniforth, will we ever see him in the yellow jersey again?
Also interesting about the Horua bit, he's had a pretty tough time off the field in the past, hopefully he gets through it as he could be really handy for the Force next year.
Another setback for Staniforth, will we ever see him in the yellow jersey again?
Also interesting about the Horua bit, he's had a pretty tough time off the field in the past, hopefully he gets through it as he could be really handy for the Force next year.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
This is the Falcons take on the game.
8 August 2008, 11:33 pm
Newcastle Falcons director of rugby, Steve Bates, hailed the impact of his new signings despite suffering a 25-15 loss at the hands of Western Force on Friday at Kingston Park.
With the Falcons having led 8-5 at the break, their Australian Super 14 opponents scored two tries early in the second half to wrap the game up, despite the Falcons' powerful scrum forcing a penalty try.
?We showed a good level of fitness for this time of year, and with only a week of rugby training under our belts I thought there were some positive signs out there,? said Bates, whose team continues its pre-season schedule at Leeds next Sunday.
?Adam Balding carried well and asked questions of the defence, while Danny Williams got his first taste of rugby union with 20 minutes at the end.
?He obviously has a lot of learning to do in terms of the laws, but he defended well and took a very difficult catch over his head, which demonstrated the skill he has. His union education will continue in the Middlesex Sevens next weekend, we will work closely with him in training and over the next few weeks and months get him fully tuned to what is a totally new game for him.
?He showed he has the necessary awareness of space, he is a very good physical specimen and we will keep involving him in these games to get him up to speed in terms of the laws and patterns of rugby union.?
Looking at the game as a whole, Bates said: ?The set piece went well, the new signings all contributed and I thought Spencer Davey was outstanding in the first half.
?Some of the Western Force kicking options were very intelligent, and we can certainly learn from that, but overall we were happy to get what was a very physical work-out so early in to our pre-season schedule.
?All of this is building up to September 7, we wouldn't normally play a game so early in August but this was a very useful training exercise for us.
?Right across the board the guys looked in good physical shape, they did many of the things we asked of them and we will build gradually as the season gets nearer. There is lots for us to work on, but we would expect that at this stage of pre-season when most of the work has been on the fitness side of things.
?What I was pleased with was that we matched them in terms of intensity, it was very competitive upfront and we put a lot of guys on the field during the second half. We now have lots of competition for places, which is raising standards, and we will see more of that as we get nearer to the Guinness Premiership.
?We chucked a load of guys on for the second half which was obviously going to disrupt the balance a bit, but these games are about getting game time for everyone and we will continue to rotate against Leeds next Sunday.?
Being the first Guinness Premiership side to test the new laws out on English soil, Bates said: ?I didn't feel that the experimental law variations really had much of an impact, although you could see from some of the breakdown work that the Aussies were a bit sharper on some of the interpretations having had a season of playing with many of these new laws already.
?There were more quick line outs now that you can throw them in backwards, which sped the play up a bit, and then the fact you can pull down the maul meant there was less time spent with the ball stuck in the middle of a catch-and-drive, again speeding up the play for the fans which I thought was a positive step.?
Explaining one moment of second-half confusion for many of the assembled crowd of 3,469, Bates revealed he had given his blessing to Western Force sending on an extra player following the sin-binning of prop AJ Whalley for collapsing a scrum.
?In a pre-season game there's no point whatsoever in playing against 14 men, because what you want is a tough 80-minute work-out that will prepare you for the rigours of the Guinness Premiership,? he said.
?It would be a complete waste of time to have a man advantage when what both teams want is a good practice session, so we told the Western Force coaches we were happy for them to ship another guy on and make it 15 versus 15.
?I appreciate the referee has his job to do, and if he deems an offence worthy of a yellow card then he has to bin the guy. I have no problem with that at all, but when the whole point of the exercise is to get a good work-out then we gave our blessing to them sending on a replacement player. I understand some of the crowd weren't too happy about it, but these games are all about good quality practice, and we just thought the common sense approach was to keep it as 15 v 15.?
******************
Fair play to the Falcons for allowing the replacement for AJ.
8 August 2008, 11:33 pm
Newcastle Falcons director of rugby, Steve Bates, hailed the impact of his new signings despite suffering a 25-15 loss at the hands of Western Force on Friday at Kingston Park.
With the Falcons having led 8-5 at the break, their Australian Super 14 opponents scored two tries early in the second half to wrap the game up, despite the Falcons' powerful scrum forcing a penalty try.
?We showed a good level of fitness for this time of year, and with only a week of rugby training under our belts I thought there were some positive signs out there,? said Bates, whose team continues its pre-season schedule at Leeds next Sunday.
?Adam Balding carried well and asked questions of the defence, while Danny Williams got his first taste of rugby union with 20 minutes at the end.
?He obviously has a lot of learning to do in terms of the laws, but he defended well and took a very difficult catch over his head, which demonstrated the skill he has. His union education will continue in the Middlesex Sevens next weekend, we will work closely with him in training and over the next few weeks and months get him fully tuned to what is a totally new game for him.
?He showed he has the necessary awareness of space, he is a very good physical specimen and we will keep involving him in these games to get him up to speed in terms of the laws and patterns of rugby union.?
Looking at the game as a whole, Bates said: ?The set piece went well, the new signings all contributed and I thought Spencer Davey was outstanding in the first half.
?Some of the Western Force kicking options were very intelligent, and we can certainly learn from that, but overall we were happy to get what was a very physical work-out so early in to our pre-season schedule.
?All of this is building up to September 7, we wouldn't normally play a game so early in August but this was a very useful training exercise for us.
?Right across the board the guys looked in good physical shape, they did many of the things we asked of them and we will build gradually as the season gets nearer. There is lots for us to work on, but we would expect that at this stage of pre-season when most of the work has been on the fitness side of things.
?What I was pleased with was that we matched them in terms of intensity, it was very competitive upfront and we put a lot of guys on the field during the second half. We now have lots of competition for places, which is raising standards, and we will see more of that as we get nearer to the Guinness Premiership.
?We chucked a load of guys on for the second half which was obviously going to disrupt the balance a bit, but these games are about getting game time for everyone and we will continue to rotate against Leeds next Sunday.?
Being the first Guinness Premiership side to test the new laws out on English soil, Bates said: ?I didn't feel that the experimental law variations really had much of an impact, although you could see from some of the breakdown work that the Aussies were a bit sharper on some of the interpretations having had a season of playing with many of these new laws already.
?There were more quick line outs now that you can throw them in backwards, which sped the play up a bit, and then the fact you can pull down the maul meant there was less time spent with the ball stuck in the middle of a catch-and-drive, again speeding up the play for the fans which I thought was a positive step.?
Explaining one moment of second-half confusion for many of the assembled crowd of 3,469, Bates revealed he had given his blessing to Western Force sending on an extra player following the sin-binning of prop AJ Whalley for collapsing a scrum.
?In a pre-season game there's no point whatsoever in playing against 14 men, because what you want is a tough 80-minute work-out that will prepare you for the rigours of the Guinness Premiership,? he said.
?It would be a complete waste of time to have a man advantage when what both teams want is a good practice session, so we told the Western Force coaches we were happy for them to ship another guy on and make it 15 versus 15.
?I appreciate the referee has his job to do, and if he deems an offence worthy of a yellow card then he has to bin the guy. I have no problem with that at all, but when the whole point of the exercise is to get a good work-out then we gave our blessing to them sending on a replacement player. I understand some of the crowd weren't too happy about it, but these games are all about good quality practice, and we just thought the common sense approach was to keep it as 15 v 15.?
******************
Fair play to the Falcons for allowing the replacement for AJ.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Wednesday, 13 August 2008 11:18am
RugbyWA Media Release
Emirates Western Force rookie Dion Berryman and Matt Hodgson close in on the Academy attacker
The Emirates Western Force has scored a resounding 36-17 victory over Saracens Academy in its second UK tour match overnight.
Ahead of the first team clash between the two sides on Friday night, it was the turn of the youngsters to take centre stage along with a selection of experienced heads from both outfits.
Saracens Academy included the likes of Cobus Visagie, Dan Scarbrough and Adam Powell in their line-up while the Emirates Western Force complimented their side with Super 14 regulars including Tai McIsaac, Junior Pelesasa and new signing Caleb Brown.
Despite coming under early pressure from the visitors, Saracens took the lead in the game with a well worked try for James Short.
However, within minutes the visitors crossed the line for a score of their own. After going through the phases inside the Academy 22 and working their way from one side of the field to the other, a gap opened up for centre Haig Sare to crash over the line from 5 metres. Scott Daruda's touchline conversion drifted wide.
Although the early scores made it a bright start to the game, both teams struggled to keep their own possession in the first half with numerous turnovers and that wasn't helped when a torrential rain storm unleashed itself on St Albans.
However, as the clouds cleared, Caleb Brown marked his starting debut for the Perth-based side with a try. Brown looked sharp throughout the game and he was on hand to collect a pass from fullback Dion Berryman after the visitors back three had worked an overlap out wide. Daruda added the extra points and when the fly half struck a penalty five minutes later, it gave the Australian side a 15-7 advantage at the half time interval.
Bright sunshine greeted the teams as they ran out for the second period and the Saracens Academy reduced the arrears with a penalty on 50 minutes.
But it was the visitors who earned the next score after a series of penalties conceded by Saracens Academy took them into the home side's 22. It was from another one of those penalties that Force captain Matt Hodgson took a quick tap and went over the line.
The visitors scored another try on the hour and this time Brown turned provider as he broke through the defensive line and released Sare to score his second of the match and Daruda extended the lead with the yet another conversion.
Saracens Academy reduced the deficit with the try of the match on 70 minutes, when from a kick into open space a foot race erupted between Saracens Academy replacement Dan Caprice and Berryman and it was Caprice who got their first to touch down after the ball had bounced over the line.
But it was the visitors who had the final word of the evening when from a 5m scrum, Daruda received possession and his clever kick through allowed Pelesasa to score and the successful conversion signalled the last action of an entertaining match that will whet the appetite ahead of Friday's clash between the top sides.
Emirates Western Force 36 (Haig Sare 2, Caleb Brown, Matt Hodgson, Junior Pelesasa tries; Scott Daruda 4 conversions, penalty goal) defeated Saracens Academy 17 (James Short, Dan Caprice tries; Jake Sharp conversion, penalty goal) at Old Albanians, St.Albans, England.
RugbyWA Media Release
Emirates Western Force rookie Dion Berryman and Matt Hodgson close in on the Academy attacker
The Emirates Western Force has scored a resounding 36-17 victory over Saracens Academy in its second UK tour match overnight.
Ahead of the first team clash between the two sides on Friday night, it was the turn of the youngsters to take centre stage along with a selection of experienced heads from both outfits.
Saracens Academy included the likes of Cobus Visagie, Dan Scarbrough and Adam Powell in their line-up while the Emirates Western Force complimented their side with Super 14 regulars including Tai McIsaac, Junior Pelesasa and new signing Caleb Brown.
Despite coming under early pressure from the visitors, Saracens took the lead in the game with a well worked try for James Short.
However, within minutes the visitors crossed the line for a score of their own. After going through the phases inside the Academy 22 and working their way from one side of the field to the other, a gap opened up for centre Haig Sare to crash over the line from 5 metres. Scott Daruda's touchline conversion drifted wide.
Although the early scores made it a bright start to the game, both teams struggled to keep their own possession in the first half with numerous turnovers and that wasn't helped when a torrential rain storm unleashed itself on St Albans.
However, as the clouds cleared, Caleb Brown marked his starting debut for the Perth-based side with a try. Brown looked sharp throughout the game and he was on hand to collect a pass from fullback Dion Berryman after the visitors back three had worked an overlap out wide. Daruda added the extra points and when the fly half struck a penalty five minutes later, it gave the Australian side a 15-7 advantage at the half time interval.
Bright sunshine greeted the teams as they ran out for the second period and the Saracens Academy reduced the arrears with a penalty on 50 minutes.
But it was the visitors who earned the next score after a series of penalties conceded by Saracens Academy took them into the home side's 22. It was from another one of those penalties that Force captain Matt Hodgson took a quick tap and went over the line.
The visitors scored another try on the hour and this time Brown turned provider as he broke through the defensive line and released Sare to score his second of the match and Daruda extended the lead with the yet another conversion.
Saracens Academy reduced the deficit with the try of the match on 70 minutes, when from a kick into open space a foot race erupted between Saracens Academy replacement Dan Caprice and Berryman and it was Caprice who got their first to touch down after the ball had bounced over the line.
But it was the visitors who had the final word of the evening when from a 5m scrum, Daruda received possession and his clever kick through allowed Pelesasa to score and the successful conversion signalled the last action of an entertaining match that will whet the appetite ahead of Friday's clash between the top sides.
Emirates Western Force 36 (Haig Sare 2, Caleb Brown, Matt Hodgson, Junior Pelesasa tries; Scott Daruda 4 conversions, penalty goal) defeated Saracens Academy 17 (James Short, Dan Caprice tries; Jake Sharp conversion, penalty goal) at Old Albanians, St.Albans, England.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
From the Sarries website - maybe the Force media people copied bits of it
*****************************
Saracens Academy side were beaten 17-36 by their counterparts from Western Force at Old Albanians on Tuesday night.
Ahead of the first team clash between the two teams on Friday night, it was the turn of the youngsters to take centre stage along with a selection of experienced heads from both outfits.
Saracens included the likes of Cobus Visagie, Dan Scarbrough and Adam Powell in their line-up while Western Force complimented their side with Super 14 regulars including Tai McIsaac, Junior Pelesasa and new signing Caleb Brown.
Despite coming under early pressure from the visitors, Saracens took the lead in the game with a well worked try for James Short. After making the most of a turnover on halfway, scrum half Mickey Wilson brushed off two tackles before releasing the Saracens wing to race home from 30 metres. Fly half Jake Sharp added the extra points.
However, within minutes the Force has crossed the line for a score of their own. After going through the phases inside the Saracens 22 and working their way from one side of the pitch to the other, it created a gap for centre Haig Sare to crash over the line from 5 metres. Scott Daruda's touchline conversion drifted wide.
Although the early scores made it a bright start to the game, both teams struggled to keep their own possession in the first half with numerous turnovers and that wasn't helped when a torrential rain storm unleashed itself on St Albans.
However, as the clouds cleared, Caleb Brown marked his debut for the Perth-based side with a try. Brown joined the Force from Queensland Reds during the summer and the wing looked sharp throughout the game and he was on hand to collect a pass from Dion Berryman after the visitors back three had worked an overlap out wide. Darruda added the extra points and when the fly half struck a penalty five minutes later, it gave the Australian side a 15-7 advantage at the half time interval.
Bright sunshine greeted the teams as they ran out for the second period and Sharp reduced the arrears with a penalty on 50 minutes after good work from Scarbrough saw the full back race 40 metres downfield.
But it was the visitors who earned the next score after a series of penaltes conceded by Saracens took them into the home side's 22. It was from another one of those penalties that Force captain Matt Hodgson took a quick tap and went over the line. Daruda converted. The visitors scored another try on the hour and this time Brown turned provider as he broke through the defensive line and released Sare to score his second of the match and Daruda extended the lead with the conversion.
Saracens reduced the deficit with the try of the game on 70 minutes. Another turnover saw Powell burst through the midfield and offload to Sharp who kicked ahead. It was then a foot race between Saracens replacement Dan Caprice and Berryman and it was Caprice who got their first to touch down after the ball had bounced over the line. Sharp converted.
But it was the visitors who had the final word of the evening when from a 5m scrum, Daruda received possession and his clever kick through allowed Pelesasa to score and the successful conversion signalled the last action of an entertaining match that will whet the appetitie ahead of Friday's clash between the sides.
*****************************
Saracens Academy side were beaten 17-36 by their counterparts from Western Force at Old Albanians on Tuesday night.
Ahead of the first team clash between the two teams on Friday night, it was the turn of the youngsters to take centre stage along with a selection of experienced heads from both outfits.
Saracens included the likes of Cobus Visagie, Dan Scarbrough and Adam Powell in their line-up while Western Force complimented their side with Super 14 regulars including Tai McIsaac, Junior Pelesasa and new signing Caleb Brown.
Despite coming under early pressure from the visitors, Saracens took the lead in the game with a well worked try for James Short. After making the most of a turnover on halfway, scrum half Mickey Wilson brushed off two tackles before releasing the Saracens wing to race home from 30 metres. Fly half Jake Sharp added the extra points.
However, within minutes the Force has crossed the line for a score of their own. After going through the phases inside the Saracens 22 and working their way from one side of the pitch to the other, it created a gap for centre Haig Sare to crash over the line from 5 metres. Scott Daruda's touchline conversion drifted wide.
Although the early scores made it a bright start to the game, both teams struggled to keep their own possession in the first half with numerous turnovers and that wasn't helped when a torrential rain storm unleashed itself on St Albans.
However, as the clouds cleared, Caleb Brown marked his debut for the Perth-based side with a try. Brown joined the Force from Queensland Reds during the summer and the wing looked sharp throughout the game and he was on hand to collect a pass from Dion Berryman after the visitors back three had worked an overlap out wide. Darruda added the extra points and when the fly half struck a penalty five minutes later, it gave the Australian side a 15-7 advantage at the half time interval.
Bright sunshine greeted the teams as they ran out for the second period and Sharp reduced the arrears with a penalty on 50 minutes after good work from Scarbrough saw the full back race 40 metres downfield.
But it was the visitors who earned the next score after a series of penaltes conceded by Saracens took them into the home side's 22. It was from another one of those penalties that Force captain Matt Hodgson took a quick tap and went over the line. Daruda converted. The visitors scored another try on the hour and this time Brown turned provider as he broke through the defensive line and released Sare to score his second of the match and Daruda extended the lead with the conversion.
Saracens reduced the deficit with the try of the game on 70 minutes. Another turnover saw Powell burst through the midfield and offload to Sharp who kicked ahead. It was then a foot race between Saracens replacement Dan Caprice and Berryman and it was Caprice who got their first to touch down after the ball had bounced over the line. Sharp converted.
But it was the visitors who had the final word of the evening when from a 5m scrum, Daruda received possession and his clever kick through allowed Pelesasa to score and the successful conversion signalled the last action of an entertaining match that will whet the appetitie ahead of Friday's clash between the sides.
- Status