• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

We want to know who you'd pick for the Wallabies

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
People have short memories. The Twickenham debacle when Baxter was sin binned for not being a competent scrummager burns in my memory.

"Never again" I said to myself as I set out on a quest to identify barrel chested, short legged, stocky female breeders for my Front Row Farm. Having collected breeders from Poland, Russia, Zimbabwe, the Congo, Libya, the US, Japan and the Pacific Islands, my Front Row Factory, situated in rolling foothills at a secret location in country NSW, has been running for 4 years now. With sires such as Keith Woods, Tom Lawton, Kees Meuws, Martin Castrogiavanni and Os du Rant donating semen for these wonderful breeders, the first drop of 11 front rowers is coming up to 3 years and showing great promise.

In 14 or 15 years, we should see some results at schoolboy level and we're hoping, with the intensive daily training, daily Scrum School with live scrummaging starting at 5 years and state of the art nutrition and strength programmes, our first crop will make their international debuts in around 17 or 18 years. 20 or 21 may seem young for a front rower, but these are genetically engineered, elite front rowers. 22 will be the new 30 for these animals.

We are in negotiations with Phil Kearns, Carl Hayman and Benn Robinson to stand this season. We're also interested in the post career physical development of some of the Wallabies' former backs and we are exploring a backs and forwards cross breeding program. The likes of Rod Kafer and Lloyd Walker might prove capable sires and introduce additional skills to the gene pool. Some of the professional darts players also have transferable attributes, physiques and skills for a hooker and we are investigating this as a cross breeding initiative too.

Attributes not normally associated with front rowers such as good looks, intelligence, being a good trainer, discipline and dietry rigidity are desirable and we are using selective breeding to assist us with this. Some of the traditional front row vices such as beer swilling, bad jokes, falling asleep on nights out and poor taste in clothes and women are being bred out of our stock. To be honest, even at this early stage, we're expecting some difficulty losing these characteristics.

We're also seeking private investment from some of the Australian provinces and schools. The Front Row Factory is a big up front cost but the long term pay back is significant. Each player will have a sign on fee which is payable on a diminishing basis for every future contract he (we genetically select only males except for future breeding stock) signs. Obviously sponsors will be entitled to a reduced sign on fee. Players will be prohibited from signing for an overseas team until they reach the age of 30 or this condition is waived (which we're considering doing with some of our yearlings and two year olds to help with cash flow).

At this stage I have knocked back some big money offers from the likes of Touloun but if the ARU and the various provinces don't come to the table soon, I may have to entertain external investors. As you can imagine, the Argentinians, French and Italians, in particular, are very excited.

My dream is to have international standard front rows playing in every club rugby team in Australia and for the Wallabies to be the envy of the scrummaging world.

Yours,
Cutter
CEO Front Row Factory
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
The slight gain you give up by picking Slipper or Kepu is more than made up for by other strengths. With Robinson and Moore both fit and both mentioned seemingly improved we should have a pretty good scrum this season. If Robinson goes down again there may be some merit in bringing him in to strengthen the scrum but until then I'm more than happy with the others in the 22. Toss a coin between Slipper and Kepu for 3. That doesn't apply to Alexander though who I would rank behind Palmer.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
unless you can show that they are worth more positive points per game to the team over the amount of points they cost us in penalties etc

It is a bit like picking Quade Cooper, he has major deficiencies in his defence, but gains us a lot in attack so we are better off with him. A Faainga saves more points in defence than he scores, so he is a positive too. Ionne cant kick, which I consider pretty vital to a wingers game but he is a positive due to his other skills.

Sure a great scrummaging Prop is nice, but if they are not a positive to the team then they may not be needed. Have a look who is behind them too, this has a lot of influence
Did you not watch the areas game on Sunday? Scrums are full of shenanigans, but if the ref perceives you are the weaker scrum, you get hammered for most of them. Conversely, if you have a strong scrum, you end up on the right side of that ledger. And in critical times, and critical field positions, you want to be saying " we ain't going anywhere".
I know it's not all about the props and hooker. But we have to start with front rowers who can do the job and work back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TSR

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
I think it would be a good Idea to put Palmer in the squad. Wouldnt it be easier to have a player increase his workload, then teach a player to be a stronger scrummager? Being the the squad, or at least the extended squad would only encourage Palmer to work harder. His game will benefit greater from trainining in the squad over a player like Alexander. His workload is also increasing this year, and id bet a chance for the wallabies spot will only increase it some more.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
People are talking about Benn Robinson as if he isn't good around the park as well.

He might not be as good a ball runner as Alexander, but he does his share of pick and drives and generally makes the gain line due to good body height (although realistically, Robinson has no option but good body height).

I also think he is close to our best prop at winning turnover ruck ball. I can recall plenty of times for the Wallabies and Waratahs where he has won penalties when we have been defending close to our line by getting his hands onto the ball quickly and winning the penalty for the attacker not releasing.

I think Alexander is the perfect reserve prop for the Wallabies as his ball running/try scoring ability is surely best utilised when players are tiring.

As for the starting THP, I think it is a really tough call between Palmer, Kepu and Slipper. Palmer is the best scrummager and Kepu and Slipper probably offer similar things. I think Kepu's form has probably been better than Slipper's so I'd be choosing between Palmer and Kepu for the starting spot.
 

tigerland12

John Thornett (49)
Alexander really shouldn't be considered for even a bench spot at this point. Yeh he's good around the field, but so are Kepu and Slipper, abiet not to the same level but they make up for it with their scrummaging.
1-Robinson
2-Moore
3- Kepu
17-Slipper
 
T

truckandtrailor

Guest
This is my team for the tests against the Scots and Wales. Even if JOC (James O'Connor) and Quade are available... I would still leave them out.... I would rather them at 100% for the Rugby Championship.

LH - B.Robinson
H - S.Moore
TH - B. Alexander
Super Rugby - J.Horwill
Super Rugby - H.Pyle (I think its worth giving him a go for these tests)
BS - S. Higginbottom
OS - D.Pocock
N8 - W.Palu
SH - W.Genia (Nic White is not too far behind though.. he fires bullets)
FH - K.Beale
W - D. Ioane
IC - R.Horne
OC - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
W - J. Tomane
FB - B. Barnes (I think Bezza will play better if he choses his time to inject himself, like what he did for SYDNEY UNI last year)
 

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Just pick the best front row and be done with it I reckon - they will know how to work as a unit and increase the chances of keeping it together under pressure. Don't mix and match - just pick all three as one (I am painfully aware that this would NOT be the reds front row :( ).
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
That would be silly as we'd never be picking our best front row and currently it would mean that the Tahs and Brumbies front rowers would be the only ones considered.

It would probably make it almost impossible for the other weaker Australian franchises to recruit good frontrowers with Wallaby aspirations.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Slipper hasn't been scrummaging as well as Alexander this year, and his workrate isn't as good...

I'd have Slipper in the squad, but he'd be lucky to make the bench on form...
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Slipper hasn't been scrummaging as well as Alexander this year, and his workrate isn't as good...

I'd have Slipper in the squad, but do people honestly want him starting ahead of good scrummagers like Palmer or Kepu?

I agree. I think Kepu offers a very similar thing to Slipper but has been playing better and Palmer is a much better scrummager. On that basis I'd either be picking Kepu or Palmer at 3. Alexander as the bench prop for his versatility and opportunity to run more late in the game as the opposition forwards tire.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
As Palmer has increased his workrate this year, his scrummaging has lessened. He hasn't been beaten this season, but he hasn't dominated anyone either.

Slipper and Kepu offer as decent scrummaging, but much better workrates

I would start, when we know we are under the pump at scrum time

Robinson, Our best LHP, he can actually dominate
Moore
Kepu, clearly better at THP, than LHP so he starts

with on the bench
Nau
Slipper, great at THP, and solid at LHP
 

No4918

John Hipwell (52)
Fair bit of talk about refs rewarding a scrum that is perceived to be stronger here and in the Reds vs Crusaders thread. So why all the Alexander support? Of the five scrum options he has definitely got the worst rep with the refs.
 

connor95

Allen Oxlade (6)
1- B.Robinson
2 - S.Moore
3 - B. Alexander
4 - J.Horwill
5 - ?
6 - S. Higginbottom
7 - D.Pocock
8 - R.Samo
9 - L.Burgess
10 - Q.Cooper
11 - D. Ioane
12 - B.Barnes
13 - A. Ashley - Cooper
14 - J. O'Connor
15 - K. Beale
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
front row for me is
1. B Robinson - without a doubt
2. Moore - TPN back-up (Moore for his consistency)
3. Kepu/Palmer

Sub - Alexander - can play both sides of the scrum, good injection for a super-sub.

Not sure why Im not sold on Slipper. Guess i just haven't seen much evidence of him dominating. Yes good work-rate but Kepu has size (which is great around the park - has the ability to get that extra yard) and Palmer can dominate scrums. Im a fan of a player that is dominate at some skill. Slipper seems to be good-all-round, not dominate in anything. Although having said that I wouldn't be unpleased seeing him in a wallabies jersey.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
People have short memories. The Twickenham debacle when Baxter was sin binned for not being a competent scrummager burns in my memory.

"Never again" I said to myself as I set out on a quest to identify barrel chested, short legged, stocky female breeders for my Front Row Farm. Having collected breeders from Poland, Russia, Zimbabwe, the Congo, Libya, the US, Japan and the Pacific Islands, my Front Row Factory, situated in rolling foothills at a secret location in country NSW, has been running for 4 years now. With sires such as Keith Woods, Tom Lawton, Kees Meuws, Martin Castrogiavanni and Os du Rant donating semen for these wonderful breeders, the first drop of 11 front rowers is coming up to 3 years and showing great promise.

In 14 or 15 years, we should see some results at schoolboy level and we're hoping, with the intensive daily training, daily Scrum School with live scrummaging starting at 5 years and state of the art nutrition and strength programmes, our first crop will make their international debuts in around 17 or 18 years. 20 or 21 may seem young for a front rower, but these are genetically engineered, elite front rowers. 22 will be the new 30 for these animals.

We are in negotiations with Phil Kearns, Carl Hayman and Benn Robinson to stand this season. We're also interested in the post career physical development of some of the Wallabies' former backs and we are exploring a backs and forwards cross breeding program. The likes of Rod Kafer and Lloyd Walker might prove capable sires and introduce additional skills to the gene pool. Some of the professional darts players also have transferable attributes, physiques and skills for a hooker and we are investigating this as a cross breeding initiative too.

Attributes not normally associated with front rowers such as good looks, intelligence, being a good trainer, discipline and dietry rigidity are desirable and we are using selective breeding to assist us with this. Some of the traditional front row vices such as beer swilling, bad jokes, falling asleep on nights out and poor taste in clothes and women are being bred out of our stock. To be honest, even at this early stage, we're expecting some difficulty losing these characteristics.

We're also seeking private investment from some of the Australian provinces and schools. The Front Row Factory is a big up front cost but the long term pay back is significant. Each player will have a sign on fee which is payable on a diminishing basis for every future contract he (we genetically select only males except for future breeding stock) signs. Obviously sponsors will be entitled to a reduced sign on fee. Players will be prohibited from signing for an overseas team until they reach the age of 30 or this condition is waived (which we're considering doing with some of our yearlings and two year olds to help with cash flow).

At this stage I have knocked back some big money offers from the likes of Touloun but if the ARU and the various provinces don't come to the table soon, I may have to entertain external investors. As you can imagine, the Argentinians, French and Italians, in particular, are very excited.

My dream is to have international standard front rows playing in every club rugby team in Australia and for the Wallabies to be the envy of the scrummaging world.

Yours,
Cutter
CEO Front Row Factory

Unfortunately Cutter, the way Australian rugby works these guys would all get ignored in Schoolboys & U19s where they would pick the most mobile front rowers because they don't really have to scrum. By the time someone realises their scrummaging might be of some use they will already be addicted to pizza & beer.

Great Post though - love your work.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
If we introduce DNA from the dart throwers, does that mean every line out call needs to be "One hundred and eeeeeeighty'
 

mudskipper

Colin Windon (37)
Sure, Ruggo, I understand they need to be able to contribute around the park. But scrumming has to be their primary skill, not something at which they're sort of adequate.
I think we are seeing some good options coming along.

Alexander is well beyond adequate and can play both side of the scrum at test level, he's also a ball runner Rodinson doesn't have these skills.... test palyers need to be more positive on the field during play... Alexander also has teh add=vantage of a S15 combo with Moore and Palmer inthe frontrow...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top