Waratahs v Reds Match Thread

[Gnostic]

I said why not in my post.

You must have seen something I did not. A shining light? He needs some batteries in his torch then.

 

[fatprop]

Douglas replacing Simmons is getting way ahead of yourselves who ever said it.

They play two different positions, Simmons is a mobile openside lock, Douglas is a direct TH lock.

In a just world Simmons would be back up for Sharpe and Douglas back up for Horwill.

 

[I like to watch]

I wouldn't be too down on Quade - he did not lose that game in any way. The Reds pack was back-pedalling much of the night, the Tah defence was way more aggressive and just never really let Genia, and thus Cooper get on the front foot. This issue of hiding him in defence, however, is fraught with problems for me. He does not look to have done anything about it in the off season, which is disappointing.

He should have shut down Gilbert instead of calling touched, that's 1 try.
Then he was hiding on the wing & dropped back when the tahs turned it over & scored on his wing, that's another try.
Thats 1/2 of tries conceded down to him, even when they are hiding him!
It's not even the tackles that he misses, it's his reading of the play & staying away from contact instead of putting pressure on attacking players that shits me about him. He knows where he should be & doesn't get there.
it's fucking hilarious to me that Qld think he is the answer, but when will everyone else realise that to play tackle footie you have to ..

 

[vidiot]

Why not.

We're two games into the season. But the Tahs pack is a great unit, and Douglas is going well.

 

[Gnostic]

They play two different positions, Simmons is a mobile openside lock, Douglas is a direct TH lock.

In a just world Simmons would be back up for Sharpe and Douglas back up for Horwill.

I would say that Douglas has to be ahead of Horwill, FP. Horwill hasn't played lock for a long time and Douglas has the form on the board.

 

[dobduff11]

When your forwards are on roller skates, it is pretty hard to blame the backs.

Yeah but if your 13 keeps fucking up and your 12 gets nailed nearly every time you get the ball then something is wrong in the backline

Pack for Reds:
1. Daley
2. Hanson
3. Slipper
4. Van
5. Horwill
6. Higgo
7. Robinson
8. Houston (thought he played well today)

16. S Finger
17. Holmes
18. Simmons
19. Gill
20. Lucas
21. Harris
22. One of the four I selected above

 

[fatprop]

You can't start Daley against Palmer, Holmes to LHP, Sheperdson on the bench.

 

[fatprop]

I would say that Douglas has to be ahead of Horwill, FP. Horwill hasn't played lock for a long time and Douglas has the form on the board.

Horwill is being punished by being stuck out of position, but he is a damn good lock, those 4 would do me for the RWC

 

[Bowside]

Yeah but if your 13 keeps fucking up and your 12 gets nailed nearly every time you get the ball then something is wrong in the backline

Pack for Reds:
1. Daley
2. Hanson
3. Slipper
4. Van
5. Horwill
6. Higgo
7. Robinson
8. Houston (thought he played well today)

16. S Finger
17. Holmes
18. Simmons
19. Gill
20. Lucas
21. Harris
22. One of the four I selected above

Simmons for van any day of the week. His runs tonight were about the only broken play forward movement the reds had.

 

[Gnostic]

You can't start Daley against Palmer, Holmes to LHP, Sheperdson on the bench.

Daley got taught a lesson by the Fuse tonight and would get another against Palmer.

How is James Hanson in the scrum? Finger is showing why he should never have toured last year, so much for the Wallabies tour bringing him on.

 

[cyclopath]

He should have shut down Gilbert instead of calling touched, that's 1 try.
Then he was hiding on the wing & dropped back when the tahs turned it over & scored on his wing, that's another try.
Thats 1/2 of tries conceded down to him, even when they are hiding him!
It's not even the tackles that he misses, it's his reading of the play & staying away from contact instead of putting pressure on attacking players that shits me about him. He knows where he should be & doesn't get there.
it's fucking hilarious to me that Qld think he is the answer, but when will everyone else realise that to play tackle footie you have to ..

I would contend that there is much that goes into a try being scored, and there were just as many others at fault in all of them than Quade alone, but I agree his defence is a big issue indeed. Always having to readjust as he goes off to the back is going to make holes that teams will drive big units through, time and again. Interesting to watch how much better Kurtley makes tackles these days in general.
Anyway, the talk before was about his lack of attacking options - I thought it was hard to judge him harshly there.

 

[qwerty51]

Congratulations Tah's fans on a much deserved win. I hope the Horwill injury is nothing serious. Douglas replacing Simmons is getting way ahead of yourselves who ever said it. Amongst a dull Reds performance he was a shining light plus it would be unwise to waste last years development of him in a world cup year. The Tahs carried the extra weight well and more importantly they used it well.

I would have given MOM to Horne over TPN althou he was great. Horne was awsome in both defence and attack.

Why is Douglas replacing Simmons getting ahead of ourselves? I never even thought Simmons should've been selected in the Wallabies before Douglas. I honestly think Deans didn't watch enough Tah games with the ridiculous selections he chose. Daley over Kepu, Higginbotham over Mowen, Simmons over Douglas etc.

Every game I've seen Douglas play he is more physical than Simmons, taking nothing away from Simmons but I really rate Douglas highly.

 

[Gnostic]

Why is Douglas replacing Simmons getting ahead of ourselves? I never even thought Simmons should've been selected in the Wallabies before Douglas. I honestly think Deans didn't watch enough Tah games with the ridiculous selections he chose. Daley over Kepu, Higginbotham over Mowen, Simmons over Douglas etc.

Every game I've seen Douglas play he is more physical than Simmons, taking nothing away from Simmons but I really rate Douglas highly.

Come on Qwerty, that should tell you everything. Deans cares nothing for physicality, its all about mobility, hence Daley, Finger, Chisholm, Brown etc etc etc........

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Horwill is being punished by being stuck out of position, but he is a damn good lock, those 4 would do me for the RWC

So those who have been saying he's wasted at 6 may have had a point? I've not seen the game yet, but I've always had my reservations about Kev playing blindside. How did he go before going off injured?

 

[Ruggo]

You must have seen something I did not. A shining light? He needs some batteries in his torch then.

Yes I must have. As I said in my original post I would not be wasting last years development of him in a world cup year. Douglas has masses of promise and I have not argued otherwise but transfering that into the international arena is not a developmental game to be pleyed in a RWC year. Simmons has been there and matched up well, giving him the edge over Douglas. Simmons had a solid game and it is a shame his fellow forwards could not follow his lead.

Oh and if Simmons is a torch I would say he is a maglight. Copped plenty of punishment and kept working.

 

[Lee Grant]

Just back from the game. A comprehensive win by the Tahs against a woeful Queensland team. They looked like the Tahs did in Invercargill last year.

I had a sneaky thought they would win by 10-15 but not by as much as they did - and the score flattered the Reds; the Tahs looked a good 40 points better at the ground.

I can't remember the Tahs forwards dominating a game so much; it was even better than last week. The Reds chose a big pack but they didn't play big. The Tahs attacking defence was extraordinary to watch. It was like the old Dragons league team in the days of unlimited tackles: letting the other team have the ball and tackling the crap out of them until they were softened up.

More about the game later - I want to watch the recording.

 

[RugbyReg]

Another awesome performance by the Tahs, lead by that monstrous pack. Just so aggressive. Will be interesting to see how much of the season TPN and Horne play if they continue to play like that.

Barnes was fantastic at 10 and really put the Reds under pressure with his running. As others have said though, easy when you have a dominant pack.

Something is wrong with the Reds. It comes down to attitude for me. Those handling errors were just poor. Wrong headspace I think. They seem constantly pressured. It all came so easily (relatively) last year and now they are under pressure they don't seem to be coping. Plus we are lacking aggression. Of the 5 Australian sides, we've been the least impressive in my eyes.

Agree with some of the changes mooted. I wouldn't pick Beau though. Still a bench player for mine. I'd go Gill. We are nowhere near the ball at the moment and we need to be harder on it. Gill will get the ball for us.

I'd go:

1 Holmes
2 Hanson
3 Slipper
4 Simmons
5 Van (assuming Kev is out, otherwise Van is benched).
6 Higgers
7 Gill
8 Schatz
9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Toua
12 Fainga'a (just, over Tapuia - but last chance)
13 Ioane (need his running closer to the action)
14 Davies
15 Hynes (just).

16 Fainga'a, 17 Daley, 18 Samo??? 19 Robinson 20 Lucas 21 Harris 22 Morahan.

 

[I like to watch]

I would contend that there is much that goes into a try being scored, and there were just as many others at fault in all of them than Quade alone, but I agree his defence is a big issue indeed. Always having to readjust as he goes off to the back is going to make holes that teams will drive big units through, time and again. Interesting to watch how much better Kurtley makes tackles these days in general.
Anyway, the talk before was about his lack of attacking options - I thought it was hard to judge him harshly there.

I s'pose it's the 1/2 full or 1/2 empty argument. I contend that much goes into STOPPING a try being scored, the Reds have 14 guys committed to this end & 1 other.
In terms of his attack, I would say it improved dramatically when BB was replaced.
He did some really nice thing with the ball tonight, and some really shit things, there was lots of turnover ball with his DNA on it. Is it the pigs fault for not giving him go ahead, or is it his fault for continually taking the line on & risking a turnover?
That's the problem with QC (Quade Cooper), he is a box of chocolates..You never know what you are going to get.

 

[Ruggo]

So those who have been saying he's wasted at 6 may have had a point? I've not seen the game yet, but I've always had my reservations about Kev playing blindside. How did he go before going off injured?

On a horses for courses basis, he goes good at six. He had a bloody good game in the first round of last year. Then he moved back to lock for the second game. I think it is more about the dynamic of the pack around him more than just Kev at six. I accept the reality of the LHL and THL and when Kev played six last year, Byrnes was a fair substitute at THL and with Braid at seven the backrow dynamic was even. With the current crop I would agree the Horwill at six should be dropped. One sure thing is that a side with Horwill in it regardless where he plays is better than a side without him. Where he is truly wasted is on the sideline injured.

 

[#1 Tah]

The best team won.