Waratahs v Reds Match Thread
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Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
A beautifully crafted if succinct summation of the game, Numero Uno, with which most members would find no reason to disagree.
Tangawizi
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Sadly, and contrary to my hopes this afternoon, Van and Simmo did not step up tonight. Those 2 ****s got rolled. Bigtime.
Finally back from my Victorian expedition via ANZ Stadium tonight. Having watched the Tahs live for two consecutive weeks I can tell you the physicality of the forwards and the punishing defence is breathtaking to watch. Added to that is the accuracy of their play. One thing in particluar sticks out in my mind: short offloads. I was high up in the stands at Melbourne at the same end the Tahs warmed up, they did a LOT of short, pop passes in their prematch routine. And continued to do so during the game. They kept up these lovely short offloads tonight which got them a shitload of territory. It's been delightful to watch the Tahs bust their arses to get into positions to receive these short passes.
It would seem the Reds' brains trust doesn't take advantage of the free advice we offer on G&GR: the (excellent) point Gagger made about the Tahs pigs running off the ball carrier's hip last week was completely ignored by Link. The one off charges by the Reds as they tried their pick-and-go plays was, honestly, pathetic.
The depth of the Tahs' bench will eventually bite them on the arse if Hickey doesn't alter his "play the best team until they drop" routine. Cross and Timani had poor games and will be lucky to feature much in future games. But who else is there?
Burgess' passing improved dramatically tonight, I can't recall a pass not going to the intended recipient nor one wildly wide of the mark. However, I'm sure one of my northern friends will correct me here. Best player? The whole team. "Fill-in" players such as Dennis and Mowen have performed heroicly, but those expectd to shine such as TPN, Horne and Douglas have shown the Tahs the way. Carter played very ordinarily last week and a bit better tonight, I think I recall him passing the pill in the first five minutes. I'm sucking on a superb Canberra District Merlot as I recover.
Off to Brisbane tomorrow and lunch at the Creek with Juan and Lance. Look out for a smiling gent in all blue with a Tahs cap.
It would seem the Reds' brains trust doesn't take advantage of the free advice we offer on G&GR: the (excellent) point Gagger made about the Tahs pigs running off the ball carrier's hip last week was completely ignored by Link. The one off charges by the Reds as they tried their pick-and-go plays was, honestly, pathetic.
The depth of the Tahs' bench will eventually bite them on the arse if Hickey doesn't alter his "play the best team until they drop" routine. Cross and Timani had poor games and will be lucky to feature much in future games. But who else is there?
Burgess' passing improved dramatically tonight, I can't recall a pass not going to the intended recipient nor one wildly wide of the mark. However, I'm sure one of my northern friends will correct me here. Best player? The whole team. "Fill-in" players such as Dennis and Mowen have performed heroicly, but those expectd to shine such as TPN, Horne and Douglas have shown the Tahs the way. Carter played very ordinarily last week and a bit better tonight, I think I recall him passing the pill in the first five minutes. I'm sucking on a superb Canberra District Merlot as I recover.
Off to Brisbane tomorrow and lunch at the Creek with Juan and Lance. Look out for a smiling gent in all blue with a Tahs cap.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Dominant performance by the Tahs. There was not an element of the game they didn't dominate, but most impressive to me was their physicality. They simply looked like they belonged in another league at times.
My key concern is player damage, exacerbated by Hickey's refusal to make early substitutions for hurt players. How many times does Nau have to go down?
Exhilarating game for a Tahs fan... Now if only the game had been at the SFS...
My key concern is player damage, exacerbated by Hickey's refusal to make early substitutions for hurt players. How many times does Nau have to go down?
Exhilarating game for a Tahs fan... Now if only the game had been at the SFS...
sevenpointdropgoal
Larry Dwyer (12)
It's a fair question. Fitzpatrick is a good hooker in need of game time; keeping TPN on the field when we already had a good lead seemed pretty foolish.
D
daz
Guest
Memo to the Reds: Remember 2010? You guys looked really good. I am sure you all did heaps of work over the off-season and can't wait to show the improvement.
Anyway, just a quick heads-up that the 2011 Season has started. Care to join it?
Anyway, just a quick heads-up that the 2011 Season has started. Care to join it?
ChargerWA
Mark Loane (55)
I hope the Tah's can keep this frenetic pace up all season, other side's like the Bulls and Crusaders have been able to sustain it for a season/s so I don't see why the Tahs can't as well.
Everyone was aware how much the Reds would miss Braid, so now Link needs to get it together, slap his team about and get some of last seasons passion back. Their scrambling win last week proves that even off song, they have the cattle to get the job done, now they just need to do it.
Everyone was aware how much the Reds would miss Braid, so now Link needs to get it together, slap his team about and get some of last seasons passion back. Their scrambling win last week proves that even off song, they have the cattle to get the job done, now they just need to do it.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Had a bloody dinner party to go to so I had to wait till I got home to watch the match. Deans said this week that the Rebels were not the last team the Tahs would embarrass this year, but I don't think he meant that the Reds with all his favourite forwards would be next. That was one of the most comprehensive shellackings you are ever likely to see. To all those Reds fans complaining about Lawrence, I thought he single-handedly kept them in the match in the first half - a fairer score would have been 30-6 at half time.
Some random thoughts:
1. I LOVED TPN's comment about why he had to come off. "The back 5 were pushing so hard in the scrum my shoulder couldn't take the pressure." He said it virtually straight faced. The man has class.
2. How do you fit Palu back into that team? All you can do is use him as a super-sub until someone is injured.
3. Tahs scrum was totally dominant and Lawrence refused to pay them off for it. In the first 60 minutes he could have penalised Red on almost every scrum. Slipper, Fainga'a and Daley is supposed to be Wallaby standard and Kepu, TPN and Baxter are not but they chewed them up and spat them out. And lest the Reds front row blame the back five for not pushing, Simmons, Humphries and Higgers all went on the EOYT and Douglas, Mowen, Waugh and Dennis did not.
4. Timani has to learn to catch a pass or else he will not make it at this level, despite all his other skills and attributes.
5. There has been a lot of stuff on this thread about how terrible the Reds were. Sorry, they were not too bad mostly, they were just taken apart by a massively superior team. Genia at 9 behind the Tahs pack would be getting plaudits for his play, he tried very hard and showed a lot of skill. Cooper, Ioane, Davies, Hynes did some good things. Chambers and A. Fainga'a were poor but they were facing Carter and Horne, who totally outplayed them. Horwill was good till injured, Holmes was the best QLD scrummager, Simmons and Houston did some good things and I thought Robinson was effective.
6. The Tah defence is awesome, but after the bye week Hickey HAS to learn to sub injured players and put in a proper rotation system. Otherwise the team he wants to put on the park in the final will be mostly crocked, especially TPN. Even Bryce Lawrence gave Flahive a serve for not insisting he be subbed. Hickey is doing better in some areas this year but in this HE WILL NOT LEARN!
7. Reds fans are calling for Gill to stop the rout. Imagine what TPN and his mates would do to him, he's too young and undeveloped to be ruined for the future. He will be a star in a few years only if he is not destroyed by early selection. Give him a game against the Cheetahs or Rebels to give him a taste, but don't make him the first choice fetcher, its just too early.
8. Burgess is starting to push Genia very hard for his Wallaby spot. He plays a totally different game to most 9's but it works really well for the Waratahs.
9. Beale needs to take over the kicking from Barnes until he has overcome the yips. Beale should only do it for a couple of weeks till Barnes corrects his bad habits. Hangers will be fine to kick off the bench.
Tonight was awesome, but next Friday it will be the Crusaders. If we can do to them what we have done to the Reds then I believe that this could be our year. But tonight was very sweet. Just about as good as it gets.
Some random thoughts:
1. I LOVED TPN's comment about why he had to come off. "The back 5 were pushing so hard in the scrum my shoulder couldn't take the pressure." He said it virtually straight faced. The man has class.
2. How do you fit Palu back into that team? All you can do is use him as a super-sub until someone is injured.
3. Tahs scrum was totally dominant and Lawrence refused to pay them off for it. In the first 60 minutes he could have penalised Red on almost every scrum. Slipper, Fainga'a and Daley is supposed to be Wallaby standard and Kepu, TPN and Baxter are not but they chewed them up and spat them out. And lest the Reds front row blame the back five for not pushing, Simmons, Humphries and Higgers all went on the EOYT and Douglas, Mowen, Waugh and Dennis did not.
4. Timani has to learn to catch a pass or else he will not make it at this level, despite all his other skills and attributes.
5. There has been a lot of stuff on this thread about how terrible the Reds were. Sorry, they were not too bad mostly, they were just taken apart by a massively superior team. Genia at 9 behind the Tahs pack would be getting plaudits for his play, he tried very hard and showed a lot of skill. Cooper, Ioane, Davies, Hynes did some good things. Chambers and A. Fainga'a were poor but they were facing Carter and Horne, who totally outplayed them. Horwill was good till injured, Holmes was the best QLD scrummager, Simmons and Houston did some good things and I thought Robinson was effective.
6. The Tah defence is awesome, but after the bye week Hickey HAS to learn to sub injured players and put in a proper rotation system. Otherwise the team he wants to put on the park in the final will be mostly crocked, especially TPN. Even Bryce Lawrence gave Flahive a serve for not insisting he be subbed. Hickey is doing better in some areas this year but in this HE WILL NOT LEARN!
7. Reds fans are calling for Gill to stop the rout. Imagine what TPN and his mates would do to him, he's too young and undeveloped to be ruined for the future. He will be a star in a few years only if he is not destroyed by early selection. Give him a game against the Cheetahs or Rebels to give him a taste, but don't make him the first choice fetcher, its just too early.
8. Burgess is starting to push Genia very hard for his Wallaby spot. He plays a totally different game to most 9's but it works really well for the Waratahs.
9. Beale needs to take over the kicking from Barnes until he has overcome the yips. Beale should only do it for a couple of weeks till Barnes corrects his bad habits. Hangers will be fine to kick off the bench.
Tonight was awesome, but next Friday it will be the Crusaders. If we can do to them what we have done to the Reds then I believe that this could be our year. But tonight was very sweet. Just about as good as it gets.
Newb
Trevor Allan (34)
i don't think it's a stretch to say he slots right back in at 8 with mowen to 6 and dennis to the bench. not many would complain with that.
though they have worked fat cat back in slowly.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
Correct and almost correct. Good call WJ.
Jethro Tah
Bob Loudon (25)
Ok if no-one else will say it then I will - Hickey, you are doing a top job so far. Keep it up.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
Agreed, I started thinking back to when TPN moved to prop under deans and got injured in the baa baas game.
There is no need for it, swap him and put him on ice, and if absolutely required he can come back on if there is another injury
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Some stray thoughts though others have mentioned some of them before.
• After two weeks of aggressive defence from the Tahs forwards I reckon that their increased weight this year is having some practical benefit. Speed to the tackle and ball does not seem to be affected; nor their agility. More important than weight though is their attitude towards defence for the full 80 minutes. The Reds made some incursions but they were mainly when the Tahs reserves came on and defensive cohesion suffered, and as the remaining starting players tired at the same time.
• It was good to see an Oz team finish 80 minutes with such a clean sheet in the set pieces whilst causing a bit of cheek to opponents on their ball. The only blemish I can think of was when the ball was dropped once when running from the scrum.
• Luke Burgess passed quite well for him but he froze the game a couple of times near the Reds' goal line as though somebody had pressed the pause button. It never has any effect; so I don't know why he does it. Also he showed why it's best for a scrummie to be a RF kicker. Burgess is a LF kicker so he can't use that foot to box kick from a scrum. His attempted RF kicks were poor and one went out on the full.
• You had to feel sorry for young Aidan Toua. He dropped a high ball but it didn't go forward and the run he had started may have turned up trumps had the whistle not blown.
Then he was made to look like a goose when Turner scored his try because it appeared that he didn't defend wide enough. But QC (Quade Cooper) was defending there, then ran behind Toua to be behind the ruck leaving space for Turner where he had been. Credit to Burgess though for spotting it.
• The TV commentators? Horan's comment that the Reds defenders, in contrast to the Tahs', were on their heels was spot on. You could see it at the ground more than on the TV. His comment about KB (Kurtley Beale) and Barnes mixing up the play with sometimes one being the 1st receiver one time, and the other, another, was spot on too.
Disagree with Kafer's comment that the lineout throw to Dennis for his runaway try was not straight. When you watch it frame by frame you can see TPN's head was just outside the 22 on the throw-in and that is exactly the line on which the ball was when it touched Dennis' hands. But TPN's head looks wider these days? Point.
• The injury to Palu has revealed some serendipity. David Dennis has played so well he must be a chance to be in the next Wallaby squad if he keeps playing like that. Ben Mowen is benefiting also: someone who can play 6 and 8 with equal facility will be very handy in a squad. What we need to see now is Mowen running over people.
• Kane Douglas stepped up when he got his dose of serendipity last year after others were injured or suspended. Based on just two games this year it looks like he has stepped up even higher. His more active participations and dominant tackles must be taking Deans' eye.
• I was screaming for TPN to be replaced even before half-time. Even if Shaft wasn't injured Fitzy should have come on earlier. Cross had an unhappy stint from the bench. Watch this space: young Tom Kingston has been smashing them for the Junior Tahs and could get a bench gig as the outside back. Timani dropped another ball but I would persevere with him as an bench impact player, but not start him if one of the other two locks are hurt.
• Goal kicking is a real concern. Barnes kicked well for Sydney Uni last year, albeit not under the pressure of Super Rugby; Beale is hot and cold and often contacts the ball too low, and Halangahu has a pop-gun boot.
• The Tahs had an 8 day turnaround and the Reds only 6. The Reds seemed to be affected by the hard game they had last week and could have used some extra time to recover. Beware Tahs – you have only 6 days rest before the next game, in Nelson.
• The Reds played best when the game was lost. The Horwill injury looked bad; so Houston could be starting at 8 again with Higgers to 6. (Can't remember in hindsight anything Higgers did in the game though). Holmes should have a turn to start instead of Daley. Hanson is a chance to start too and so is Beau. The backs can't be judged too harshly because of their forwards, but I'd give Toua a start and consider starting Lucas also.
Not all of these changes will be made but some have to be. And what price Harris to start instead of QC (Quade Cooper) next week??
Watch this space.
• After two weeks of aggressive defence from the Tahs forwards I reckon that their increased weight this year is having some practical benefit. Speed to the tackle and ball does not seem to be affected; nor their agility. More important than weight though is their attitude towards defence for the full 80 minutes. The Reds made some incursions but they were mainly when the Tahs reserves came on and defensive cohesion suffered, and as the remaining starting players tired at the same time.
• It was good to see an Oz team finish 80 minutes with such a clean sheet in the set pieces whilst causing a bit of cheek to opponents on their ball. The only blemish I can think of was when the ball was dropped once when running from the scrum.
• Luke Burgess passed quite well for him but he froze the game a couple of times near the Reds' goal line as though somebody had pressed the pause button. It never has any effect; so I don't know why he does it. Also he showed why it's best for a scrummie to be a RF kicker. Burgess is a LF kicker so he can't use that foot to box kick from a scrum. His attempted RF kicks were poor and one went out on the full.
• You had to feel sorry for young Aidan Toua. He dropped a high ball but it didn't go forward and the run he had started may have turned up trumps had the whistle not blown.
Then he was made to look like a goose when Turner scored his try because it appeared that he didn't defend wide enough. But QC (Quade Cooper) was defending there, then ran behind Toua to be behind the ruck leaving space for Turner where he had been. Credit to Burgess though for spotting it.
• The TV commentators? Horan's comment that the Reds defenders, in contrast to the Tahs', were on their heels was spot on. You could see it at the ground more than on the TV. His comment about KB (Kurtley Beale) and Barnes mixing up the play with sometimes one being the 1st receiver one time, and the other, another, was spot on too.
Disagree with Kafer's comment that the lineout throw to Dennis for his runaway try was not straight. When you watch it frame by frame you can see TPN's head was just outside the 22 on the throw-in and that is exactly the line on which the ball was when it touched Dennis' hands. But TPN's head looks wider these days? Point.
• The injury to Palu has revealed some serendipity. David Dennis has played so well he must be a chance to be in the next Wallaby squad if he keeps playing like that. Ben Mowen is benefiting also: someone who can play 6 and 8 with equal facility will be very handy in a squad. What we need to see now is Mowen running over people.
• Kane Douglas stepped up when he got his dose of serendipity last year after others were injured or suspended. Based on just two games this year it looks like he has stepped up even higher. His more active participations and dominant tackles must be taking Deans' eye.
• I was screaming for TPN to be replaced even before half-time. Even if Shaft wasn't injured Fitzy should have come on earlier. Cross had an unhappy stint from the bench. Watch this space: young Tom Kingston has been smashing them for the Junior Tahs and could get a bench gig as the outside back. Timani dropped another ball but I would persevere with him as an bench impact player, but not start him if one of the other two locks are hurt.
• Goal kicking is a real concern. Barnes kicked well for Sydney Uni last year, albeit not under the pressure of Super Rugby; Beale is hot and cold and often contacts the ball too low, and Halangahu has a pop-gun boot.
• The Tahs had an 8 day turnaround and the Reds only 6. The Reds seemed to be affected by the hard game they had last week and could have used some extra time to recover. Beware Tahs – you have only 6 days rest before the next game, in Nelson.
• The Reds played best when the game was lost. The Horwill injury looked bad; so Houston could be starting at 8 again with Higgers to 6. (Can't remember in hindsight anything Higgers did in the game though). Holmes should have a turn to start instead of Daley. Hanson is a chance to start too and so is Beau. The backs can't be judged too harshly because of their forwards, but I'd give Toua a start and consider starting Lucas also.
Not all of these changes will be made but some have to be. And what price Harris to start instead of QC (Quade Cooper) next week??
Watch this space.
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