Waratahs 2022

[RugbyReg]

No, it's not been clear Reg.

You’re not my target market in these comments to be fair.

 

[TSR]

I appreciate the pickings a bare, but for clarity, just no

Ironically FP I would’ve thought Connolly would’ve genuinely appealed to you as a coach.

 

[TSR]

Reg, I appreciate as a Red you're standing up for a favourite son, but I think by any measure Knuckles is yesterday's man. And while you belittle Cheika's record (as is the popular position on GAGR), a record of two Shute Shield titles, taking Leinster from relegation to European Cup champions, a Super Rugby title and a World Cup final is a long way ahead of any of our current Super coaches and anyone likely to be in the running for the Tahs job. Yes, he stayed too long at the Wallabies, but still has a pretty exceptional record and the Tahs could do a lot worse.

No, we may not attract anyone good, but to me it doesn't look like a bad gig for an up and coming young coach with talent. You are taking a team who are at the bottom, but just starting to show a few green shoots, and full of talented 20 and 21 year olds whose only way is up. Very similar to the Reds when Thorn took them on I would suggest.

I think the key difference is that Thorn got the Qld Board to get 100% on board with his vision and back him.

Roger Davis departing will be a very positive step for any coaching considering the role, but there isn’t much there to be confident about in getting the necessary support from anyone else on the board either.

If memory serves me correctly when Cheika took the Tahs job he held the whip hand and was able to dictate terms to the to minimise their influence. I’ve no doubt that was a big part of his success.

 

[Lightblue]

With regard to the Waratahs appointing a new head coach. .....Coaching is important but having the cattle is as important. The Waratahs need a kick ass forward ... Swinton kicks arse but always gets carded... A decent second rower and a hooker that can throw the ball in to the front with 20 seconds on the clock... Why not save all the searching and more importantly money and stick with Gilmore and Whitaker? Gilmore is on record as wanting the job. He has coached many of the young ones coming through as head coach of the Junior Wallabies. It is my understanding that the players all like both of them. The Board at the Waratahs have to be seen to be 'doing something'... Maybe the best thing they can do is spend some money on attracting a couple of decent forwards......How many coaches do you need to coach a rugby team ?... A forwards coach and a backs coach that both agree on how they want the game to be played....have the Boards' backing to get the players they need and then coach the squad and build confidence in the game plan and a strong culture....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

In all honesty, I don't think most people's perceptions about who is good are necessarily that meaningful.

I wouldn't be excited to sign Darren Coleman for example. He's done well at Shute Shield level and he's coaching by far the best squad in MLR but he's totally untested at this level. He may do well but he also might not.

I do think the Waratahs job is pretty enticing. If there is firm agreement that the salary budget will go back up then it should be easy for a new coach to improve things substantially.

I'd certainly lean towards a current coach like Coleman or Manenti than a veteran who everyone has heard of but has no recent experience like Connolly.

I am not qualified to know all the ins and outs of whether Daren Coleman is right man for the job but have to trust those who do make the decision are. Yes normally (it appears)the apprenticeship after coaching shute shield is to get an assistant coaching gig at pro side before moving to head coach. But on paper Coleman has great record at shute shield and now at mlr side so certaintlu appears reasonable candidate to do due diligence on. if we look at thorn it is not as if he has an amazing coaching record or indeed anywhere near the coaching experience of Coleman yet he got appointed head coach and turned out alright. On that basis Coleman would seem a better bet then selecting Thorn all those years ago...just saying...

 

[fatprop]

Ironically FP I would’ve thought Connolly would’ve genuinely appealed to you as a coach.

Interested why?

My shopping list is a coach that focusses on all the basic skills

Good scrummaging
Effective lineout work
Aggressive defence
Working hard off the ball in attack and defence
Support play from depth
And focussing on getting the basic skills up to scratch first; like being able to catch & pass consistently well (and being always the first option) before even considering the hero stuff (cut outs and one handed passes in contact)

I don't see a 70yro who hasn't coached for years being the answer, I want someone who a new board will back for multiple years

 

[I like to watch]

Right here is the main problem with coaching pathways in Australia, in that there aren't any.

What else is Coleman supposed to do but excel at club in the hopes of moving up? We have a system that pretty much necessitates all our potential coaches going offshore. Which is pretty mental really.

Not saying Coleman is good enough. I have NFI who is. But not having a basic development pathway is dumbo.

No doubt, he’s had good results at club level.
most can see that’s a result of being a good recruiter, first and foremost.

 

[Bandar]

No doubt, he’s had good results at club level.
most can see that’s a result of being a good recruiter, first and foremost.

That would be a great start for the Tahs

 

[eastman]

No doubt, he’s had good results at club level.
most can see that’s a result of being a good recruiter, first and foremost.

It's a different story when you don't have the most cash to throw around though.

For mine, the 'tahs should be looking at a coach who has experience and success in developing players over time with an emphasis on systems.

 

[wamberal]

Ironically FP I would’ve thought Connolly would’ve genuinely appealed to you as a coach.

He was over the hill when he coached the Wobbs!

 

[barbarian]

no I get that. Top level coaches must be falling over themselves to come and be a part of your organisation...

It's been two weeks and Alan Jones is yet to throw his hat in the ring. Is he OK? Someone needs to check on him ASAP.

 

[rodha]

I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned yet, but the obvious outstanding candidate for the Tahs job has to be (in my opinion) the current Western Force assistant coach John McKee.

Won the NRC title in 2007 with Sydney Rays, previously coached the Australian U20s & is the most successful coach of the Fijian rugby team in history.

The guy has a proven track record & is vastly experienced, with 7 years of international coaching experience.

 

[TSR]

Interested why?

My shopping list is a coach that focusses on all the basic skills

Good scrummaging
Effective lineout work
Aggressive defence
Working hard off the ball in attack and defence
Support play from depth
And focussing on getting the basic skills up to scratch first; like being able to catch & pass consistently well (and being always the first option) before even considering the hero stuff (cut outs and one handed passes in contact)

I don't see a 70yro who hasn't coached for years being the answer, I want someone who a new board will back for multiple years

I was being a bit facetious and having a light hearted dig at your apparent aversion to offloads and tight forwards who aren’t just set piece specialists - but that exactly why I said I thought you’d like Connolly.

He’s an old school coach who starts with being really good at the basics.

Strong set piece, strong defence, good at the breakdown, simple attack built on field possession and good core skills.

Also historically very adept at managing the politics of rugby - although I think his last couple of involvements may have demonstrated he is no longer the power broker he used to be.

Definitely not the 2021 solution, but very good in his day even if he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

 

[Braveheart81]

I am not qualified to know all the ins and outs of whether Daren Coleman is right man for the job but have to trust those who do make the decision are. Yes normally (it appears)the apprenticeship after coaching shute shield is to get an assistant coaching gig at pro side before moving to head coach. But on paper Coleman has great record at shute shield and now at mlr side so certaintlu appears reasonable candidate to do due diligence on. if we look at thorn it is not as if he has an amazing coaching record or indeed anywhere near the coaching experience of Coleman yet he got appointed head coach and turned out alright. On that basis Coleman would seem a better bet then selecting Thorn all those years ago.just saying.

Thorn is also in his fourth year as the Reds head coach. Credit to the Reds for sticking with him as they're now enjoying some success and he's brought through a very talented young group combined with some good recruitment (mostly JOC (James O'Connor)).

The Reds have also had to deal with Thorn learning on the job. There was a lot that didn't go well in those first couple of years.

The Trans Tasman comp will also give us an idea how good they are and how far they and Thorn have come.

Could Coleman expect the same runway with the Waratahs?

It's a tricky choice and a lot of it will depend on how much money they are willing to offer the head coach. I don't necessarily think Coleman is a better candidate than Gilmore or Manenti and we definitely need to look at who else might be available.

 

[I like to watch]

It's a different story when you don't have the most cash to throw around though.

For mine, the 'tahs should be looking at a coach who has experience and success in developing players over time with an emphasis on systems.

No doubt.
my comment was more a backhanded compliment, than an endorsement.

 

[Rob42]

Could Coleman expect the same runway with the Waratahs?

This is why change at the board level is so important. The board needs to be committed - and stay committed - to building the whole organisation, and not chopping and changing GMs, CEOs, and coaches every five minutes. The Brumbies, and now the Reds, can point to "the Brumbies/Reds way of doing things", that consistent approach over years that yields results. Have the Tahs ever been able to say the same thing?

 

[Rob42]

According to Wikipedia, Coleman also boasts coaching experience in the ARC, NRC, head coach of Brumbies academy, and head coaching in Japan and Italy - a lot more than just Shute Shield titles. Makes him a much more impressive contender than I previously thought.

Whilst the head coach role is crucial, a less experienced head coach can be helped a lot by an experienced assistant, or GM. Cheika had Alan Gaffney with him in Leinster and at the Tahs, I'm sure Laurie Fisher's work at the Brumbies has assisted greatly when bringing in a less experienced head coach.

But - for the ground-up rebuild that the Tahs require, and with the pressure that the Sydney market places on the head coach - an experienced head is required.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Few of names I haven't seen yet are Andy Friend, Scott Wisemantel or John Mulvihill??

 

[Blackadder]

Few of names I haven't seen yet are Andy Friend, Scott Wisemantel or John Mulvihill??

Scott Wisemantel is in the Wallabies Coaching team

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Scott Wisemantel is in the Wallabies Coaching team

Wow really. Thanks for the heads up. FML

Plenty of coaches have gone from assistants at Wallaby level down to Super Rugby Head coach. Graham, McGahan and Mackenzie off the top of my head.

I'm not suggesting it is ideal to disrupt the national setup I'm just surprised his name hasn't been raised.