Waratahs 2022

[Blackadder]

I call BS - as did the Force fold - oz side with financial backer and you don't think it would have survived - yeh ok sure righto. If you think about it it would have made a nice neat 6 sides for Super Rugby AU which is big thing discussed would be ideal. I guess we will never know as NSWRU in their wisdom canned it and the private backer now invested that in MLR side which Coleman coaching. You are going to tell me the financial case for Fiji side in Super rugby is better then a Western Sydney side (please!!!)

I know you don't side with the view WS GRR side was missed opportunity but we will continue to agree to disagree.

I am actually glad that the Tahs didn't approve of it. Why give themselves direct competition both financially or player wise?

 

[dru]

I am actually glad that the Tahs didn't approve of it. Why give themselves direct competition both financially or player wise?

And Fiji Drua?

 

[Blackadder]

And Fiji Drua?

Fiji would have fijian players hopefully

 

[Derpus]

Still gotta split the pie more ways. Not clear how that's going to work. Perhaps NZ split their pie, since it's their initiative?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I am actually glad that the Tahs didn't approve of it. Why give themselves direct competition both financially or player wise?

I have commented at length that I don’t think medium to long term would have impact you think as Sydney sporting market very regional fan based. Case studies to look at would be to look at impact western Sydney sides added for Afl and a- league had on swans and Sydney fC as I suspect this didn’t have the sort of impact you think would happen to tahs. Happy to listen to any evidence otherwise but these are two case studies to definitely use.

Other thing to look at would be impact of additional western Sydney afl and a-league sides had on total Sydney fan reach and total Sydney home game fan attendance to grow the afl and a-league fan base.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I am actually glad that the Tahs didn't approve of it. Why give themselves direct competition both financially or player wise?

For the greater good of Aus rugby? Oh, hang on, if that were likely they'd have supported the NRC like all other States did.

 

[Blackadder]

For the greater good of Aus rugby? Oh, hang on, if that were likely they'd have supported the NRC like all other States did.

Then have a GRR side in the ACT

 

[Braveheart81]

I have commented at length that I don’t think medium to long term would have impact you think as Sydney sporting market very regional fan based.

Sure, but the short term is relevant here. The Waratahs are struggling massively due to not having a home stadium that was then exacerbated by COVID and the decision to underspend during that time.

They are reliant on playing a fair chunk of their games at BankWest Stadium and people are suggesting they should have been supportive of another team being based their at the same time in direct competition to them both for supporters and venue bookings.

I agree completely that there are upsides for rugby in Australia having more money being spent on the game here but there are also immediate downsides, particularly for the team operating in the same location.

By all means revisit this option once the Waratahs are back at the new football stadium at Moore Park.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Sure, but the short term is relevant here. The Waratahs are struggling massively due to not having a home stadium that was then exacerbated by COVID and the decision to underspend during that time.

They are reliant on playing a fair chunk of their games at BankWest Stadium and people are suggesting they should have been supportive of another team being based their at the same time in direct competition to them both for supporters and venue bookings.

I agree completely that there are upsides for rugby in Australia having more money being spent on the game here but there are also immediate downsides, particularly for the team operating in the same location.

By all means revisit this option once the Waratahs are back at the new football stadium at Moore Park.

What supporters? Seriously. Waratahs supporters in Western Sydney are few and far between. Even among those that actively support/play the game in the region. The Waratahs base in terms of fans are overwhelming based in the eastern half of the city. A Western Sydney team was never a threat to the Tahs in terms of fan base or support. There's no point suggesting otherwise.

 

[hifflepiff]

What supporters? Seriously. Waratahs supporters in Western Sydney are few and far between. Even among those that actively support/play the game in the region. The Waratahs base in terms of fans are overwhelming based in the eastern half of the city. A Western Sydney team was never a threat to the Tahs in terms of fan base or support. There's no point suggesting otherwise.

This. The Waratahs are not and never will be popular in West Sydney, they're too heavily associated with the East and North.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well certainly the time to lend support to another team in the city was at exactly the same time as you were trying to host a significant chunk of your games in the exact same location as the potential new team where you have rightfully pointed out that they don't have much support.

On what planet do NSWRU and the Waratahs support another professional rugby team playing out of the same stadium they are?

I think the situation would be entirely different in a couple of years time when they are back at Moore Park full time.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This. The Waratahs are not and never will be popular in West Sydney, they're too heavily associated with the East and North.

I'd never say never but it would take a huge investment of both time and resources to change things out this way. I've outlined in the past what I think is needed. The issue is, I've never seen anything to suggest the organisation has or ever really will be interested in doing anything about it. I mean. They are about to or recently have had a crisis meeting with both Penrith and Parra (Western Sydney) about their current lack of depth and competitiveness and instead of looking at ways developing the club scene that would feed into these district clubs that would in time build out the depth and competitiveness issues. Their suggested solution is in spite o both clubs being quite public in regards to their disdain for one another. Is to look at merging them. Utter madness.

 

[sendit]

A Western Sydney team was never a threat to the Tahs in terms of fan base or support. There's no point suggesting otherwise.

Absolute bullshit

I’m not against a team in western Sydney, but to say that a team in WS has zero threat to the tahs in terms of fan support is legit laughable. With rugby support as is atm even a shift of a few thousand is a heavy hit.

Let alone all the other factors at play that would negatively impact the tahs

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Well certainly the time to lend support to another team in the city was at exactly the same time as you were trying to host a significant chunk of your games in the exact same location as the potential new team where you have rightfully pointed out that they don't have much support.

On what planet do NSWRU and the Waratahs support another professional rugby team playing out of the same stadium they are?

I think the situation would be entirely different in a couple of years time when they are back at Moore Park full time.

Rivals share stadiums in other codes. Why is it that in Rugby it has to be one team to a stadium? And while BankWest is the newest and best stadium in the area. It's not the only stadium. The scheduling conflict argument is a bit of a hollow one to be honest.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Absolute bullshit

I’m not against a team in western Sydney, but to say that a team in WS has zero threat to the tahs in terms of fan support is legit laughable. With rugby support as is atm even a shift of a few thousand is a heavy hit.

Let alone all the other factors at play that would negatively impact the tahs

The organisation has shown little to no interest in the Rugby base out this way. Do you really think they care? Their objection wasn't about the prospect of losing fans in the west. It's about protectionism. Protecting their little patch as the only Rugby based option for talent in the city. Look at attendances at Bankwest this season. That's close to the extent of the Tahs base out this way.

And you know what. I take it back. A Western Sydney team would be a threat to the Tahs. And even then I still would welcome it. Hell, even a new team based in the city's north. Because then it might make the Tahs actually fight to service it's remaining territory better than they do now.

 

[sendit]

The organisation has shown little to no interest in the Rugby base out this way. Do you really think they care? Their objection wasn't about the prospect of losing fans in the west. It's about protectionism. Protecting their little patch as the only Rugby based option for talent in the city. Look at attendances at Bankwest this season. That's close to the extent of the Tahs base out this way.

And you know what. I take it back. A Western Sydney team would be a threat to the Tahs. And even then I still would welcome it. Hell, even a new team based in the city's north. Because then it might make the Tahs actually fight to service it's remaining territory better than they do now.

I don’t disagree with your general premise at all, just you saying that WS wouldn’t be a legitimate threat to the Waratahs

 

[hifflepiff]

The organisation has shown little to no interest in the Rugby base out this way. Do you really think they care? Their objection wasn't about the prospect of losing fans in the west. It's about protectionism. Protecting their little patch as the only Rugby based option for talent in the city. Look at attendances at Bankwest this season. That's close to the extent of the Tahs base out this way.

And you know what. I take it back. A Western Sydney team would be a threat to the Tahs. And even then I still would welcome it. Hell, even a new team based in the city's north. Because then it might make the Tahs actually fight to service it's remaining territory better than they do now.

If anything, a Sydney rivalry might be just what the Tahs need to actually get some fans to their games.

 

[dru]

With the Drua to be based in Western Sydney all this discussion about competition from another team seems tosh. It has already happened. Most are expecting the Drua to gather support in Western Sydney whether it is at the expense of the Waratahs will be seen, but I doubt very much if the Waratahs welcome it.

It is not Waratahs that I wonder about but the NSWRU. They could have licensed two teams for Super. Now they have one but pretty much the same competition as for two. In this case the competition is against NSWRU not just Waratahs.

That seems more than a little strange.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

With the Drua to be based in Western Sydney all this discussion about competition from another team seems tosh. It has already happened. Most are expecting the Drua to gather support in Western Sydney whether it is at the expense of the Waratahs will be seen, but I doubt very much if the Waratahs welcome it.

It is not Waratahs that I wonder about but the NSWRU. They could have licensed two teams for Super. Now they have one but pretty much the same competition as for two. In this case the competition is against NSWRU not just Waratahs.

That seems more than a little strange.

There's little in terms of separation between the two to be honest. Both have failed to properly engage the region. And yeah. They could have licenced two teams. In fact, honestly I think they should. I'd even be fine with it being based in the north of the city playing out of Brookvale. Neither organisation has proven they are capable of servicing the city properly so taking everything north of the Parramatta River off their hands could allow them to focus on solidifying what they have left and actually developing a region that could prove fruitful both in terms of fan and player bases.

 

[dru]

There's little in terms of separation between the two to be honest.

Agreed.

I just wonder about how this relates to connection to the grass roots etc. This solution is not at all ideal for rugby in NSW. It's great for rugby in Aus to have a 6th team and the connection with a Fiji team is fab. But for NSWRU?

If I were the NSWRU CEO (ditto for Blues/Aukland) I'd be hammering RA for a compensation package who in turn should take it back to the Kiwis and their "provisional" license approval. New Zealand should not in any way be approving rugby licenses in Sydney. "Provisional" or otherwise. That really is taking the piss. In fact I'm utterly flabbergasted at the whole thing.

For me, nailing that GRR West Sydney team when the chance was there would have been far superior for NSWRU. Right now there might be an argument to locate the Drua perhaps in Qld where the Reds at least have a huge uptrend in support. I wouldn't go so far to say huge "established" support, but they probably would be more resilient to Fiji commercial competition on their own turf.

I expect ongoing issues in Sydney.