Waratahs 2021

[Eyes and Ears]

Are the 2 centres eligible for the Wallabies? If not, then it is a different proposition to sign them.

From the rest, my opinion is that only Iona would potentially do any better than the current crop but it depends whether we want to develop a 29 year old as our long term No 10.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Are the 2 centres eligible for the Wallabies? If not, then it is a different proposition to sign them.

From the rest, my opinion is that only Iona would potentially do any better than the current crop but it depends whether we want to develop a 29 year old as our long term No 10.

Wouldn’t know about the centre’s .

In terms of 10s they definitely need some experience . Who does poor Tane Edmed look to for help when the person in front of him is still learning his trade also .

Surprised about the thought on Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) . I would of thought he certainly needs a year in Shute Shield to work on his defence , carries into contact and picking his moments when to offload - without stats I reckon he is good for 2-3 turnovers per game from either loose pass or weak at the collision .

For the record I reckon Jack grant has been solid since replacing Gordon . I just think Harrison Goddard was a class above in Shute last year and would certainly fit into tahs “youth policy “

 

[RugbyReg]

Sorry this is my fault I wrote this below originally and it got onto NRC somehow but genuinely intrigued about below

Firstly . First post . So apologies if iv missed anything but I’m a big Shute shield fan and with nothing to do in 2020 I watched lots .
I believe these players were best in their position last year or have at least dominated Shute shield in periods .
Do you think the tahs backs are clearly better ?

9.Harrison Goddard Vs Jack Grant
10.Angus sinclaire /Rodney Iona Vs Will Harrison
11.James Turner vs James Ramm
12.Enoka Muliufu vs Tepai Morea
13.Tautalatasi Tasi vs Alex Newsome
14. Tyson Davis vs Jack Maddocks
15.Tim Clements Vs Mark Nawanqanitwaswe

9.I reckon Goddard is more complete player than grant and controls a game better . Shute 1

10.Sinclaire / Iona are definitely better controllers than Harrison at this stage - although Harrison clearly superior running game. Even

11 . Everyone will say Ramm better but why ? Turner has been leading try scorer in last 2 years in a weak team . Ramm got picked from obscurity and to be fair was good last year but struggling this year. I’l say even Shute 1 Tahs 0

12 . Enoka Muliufu is Tepai just with a bigger rugby pedigree and more powerful . Would be lot cheaper too. Shute 2 tahs 0

13.Someone tell me what Newsome is good at ? Great solid player . But Lasi is bloody hard to tackle , physical and has X factor . I’ll take Lasi shute 3 tahs 0

14.Maddocks clear winner . Although clearly erratic. Shute 3 tahs 1

15. Tim Clements has been best 15 last 2 years in Shute . Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) is amazing in air and can offload but can’t defend or take contact . I’ll take proven player Shute 4 Tahs 1


Sure lot of the tahs guys have a “upside “ but what about picking the best players now ?

Obviously in perfect world you would mix and match . But I just don’t see why these tahs players have been chosen over proven Shute Shield performers

I’d love to see a proposed forward pack but that backline is average at best. Easily worse than the current Tahs team although I think Newsome would fit in well.

Things aren’t this bad Tah fans.

 

[RugbyReg]

So based on that when the Super players come back to shute shield they should dominate . Did anyone in particular stand out for you end of last last year?

Magic touches from winger Mark Nawaqanitawase and shrewd wet-weather rugby from Eastwood have transformed the shape of the Shute Shield finals.

 

[Tomikin]

That’s why I suggested players who aren’t the big names, but are big on experience without being too old that they are going to be well past it. I don’t think a big star will help at all. I want some calm and mature players to provide some guidance. I don’t think anyone could suggest Sam Carter would not be a huge upgrade in the row, despite not being a star. Same for replacing Newsome with someone like English. I am adamant we need an established THP too.

I hate people's thoughts on Sam.. he was the hardest working second rower in super rugby... The guy is awesome, and if you could pick him up he be right back in wobs thoughts

 

[Adam84]

If only there were another level to competition where these players could have been pitted directly each other

 

[ShuteFan1]

Magic touches from winger Mark Nawaqanitawase and shrewd wet-weather rugby from Eastwood have transformed the shape of the Shute Shield finals.

Oh come on RR. This is just a snippet from a journalist who may or may not have been there. I am a Eastwood fan and I am certain they are referring to the Easts game in the wet when Mark took a intercept and went 80m and took a high ball to set up a try. Not sure he did anything else - happy to be proven wrong . But calling this dominating is a stretch

 

[Blackadder]

I’d love to see a proposed forward pack but that backline is average at best. Easily worse than the current Tahs team although I think Newsome would fit in well.

Things aren’t this bad Tah fans.

It will contain captain coach Ed Craig

 

[RugbyReg]

Oh come on RR. This is just a snippet from a journalist who may or may not have been there. I am a Eastwood fan and I am certain they are referring to the Easts game in the wet when Mark took a intercept and went 80m and took a high ball to set up a try. Not sure he did anything else - happy to be proven wrong . But calling this dominating is a stretch

makes just as much as suggesting Tim Clements is Super Rugby standard

 

[wamberal]

Oh come on RR. This is just a snippet from a journalist who may or may not have been there. I am a Eastwood fan and I am certain they are referring to the Easts game in the wet when Mark took a intercept and went 80m and took a high ball to set up a try. Not sure he did anything else - happy to be proven wrong . But calling this dominating is a stretch

Easts absolutely dominated that game for long stretches. Eastwood's captain, Tom Murphy (7) saved our skins when he pulled off a miracle tackle in the last seconds.

 

[ShuteFan1]

makes just as much as suggesting Tim Clements is Super Rugby standard

Pretty sure he is down training and trialling with Brumbies. But to be fair brumbies are terrible with talent ID

 

[Braveheart81]

Pretty sure he is down training and trialling with Brumbies. But to be fair brumbies are terrible with talent ID

Even if that is the case, I'm not sure a guy who might be 5th choice fullback for the Brumbies is the reason the Tahs are doing so poorly.

The Tahs second string side have actually done quite well in the couple of games they've played. We also beat the Reds in a trial when they were missing their test players.

The problem is that our best side is well short on quality relative to the Brumbies and Reds in particular.

We are absolutely needing to rely on too many young players too early because we're missing the top end talent and experience.

That doesn't get fixed by replacing the young talented players with older players who may possibly be slightly better now.

Replacing Will Harrison with Angus Sinclair or Rodney Iona is not the way to improve the Tahs in the near term or long term.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Even if that is the case, I'm not sure a guy who might be 5th choice fullback for the Brumbies is the reason the Tahs are doing so poorly.

The Tahs second string side have actually done quite well in the couple of games they've played. We also beat the Reds in a trial when they were missing their test players.

The problem is that our best side is well short on quality relative to the Brumbies and Reds in particular.

We are absolutely needing to rely on too many young players too early because we're missing the top end talent and experience.

That doesn't get fixed by replacing the young talented players with older players who may possibly be slightly better now.

Replacing Will Harrison with Angus Sinclair or Rodney Iona is not the way to improve the Tahs in the near term or long term.

"The Tahs second string side have actually done quite well in the couple of games they've played" They have played two games . The lost by 15-20 to brumbies when brumbies had few squad members then they won by 20 when the reverse happened - the tahs had super rugby players while the brumbies had hardly any . So not sure how this is performing well or a accurate gauge considering the relative difference in both teams and games.

100% agree the tahs are short on top end talent but that can not be fixed now . So for the time being I don't see why you wouldn't add some experience and proven performers into the mix - who knows it may improve performance ( it may not also )
I know the argument will be "the kids will be better for the experience " but will they ??

 

[Braveheart81]

So for the time being I don't see why you wouldn't add some experience and proven performers into the mix - who knows it may improve performance ( it may not also )

Proven performers at what level though?

Then there's the question of whether guys in their late 20s like Angus Sinclair would actually want a full time minimum Super Rugby wage contract ($80k a season).

A lot of these guys work full time trying to build towards their life after rugby.

I disagree pretty strongly with your premise that the Tahs woes can be solved by signing a bunch of older players from the Shute Shield. I just don't think it's the case.

On a side note though, I would have been pretty interested in having Harrison Goddard as one of our three halfbacks. I think he is pretty similar in quality to Jack Grant though.

Tepai Moeroa has clearly failed as a signing. He's here this year because he was already on contract. He won't be here next year.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Proven performers at what level though?

Then there's the question of whether guys in their late 20s like Angus Sinclair would actually want a full time minimum Super Rugby wage contract ($80k a season).

A lot of these guys work full time trying to build towards their life after rugby.

I disagree pretty strongly with your premise that the Tahs woes can be solved by signing a bunch of older players from the Shute Shield. I just don't think it's the case.

On a side note though, I would have been pretty interested in having Harrison Goddard as one of our three halfbacks. I think he is pretty similar in quality to Jack Grant though.

Tepai Moeroa has clearly failed as a signing. He's here this year because he was already on contract. He won't be here next year.

Proven at the only level the only level they are afforded Shute Shield ( please don't start the NRC debate again I beg you)

And your right some might not want the opportunity. But other than Sinclaire and Iona I think none of the other guys are over 26/27 so technically should be in their prime and not considered old ( old relative to tahs players yes) .
That in itself is another discussion though - Australian rugby obsession with youth and discarding anyone over 24 who hasn't been through a system

Agree regarding Goddard but he is just another example of a "wonder kid" being discarded early . Goes to Melbourne as a 19yr old , doesn't nail it first go so now will probably be overlooked despite dominating in our only level below

 

[RebelYell]

Proven performers at what level though?

Then there's the question of whether guys in their late 20s like Angus Sinclair would actually want a full time minimum Super Rugby wage contract ($80k a season).

A lot of these guys work full time trying to build towards their life after rugby.

I disagree pretty strongly with your premise that the Tahs woes can be solved by signing a bunch of older players from the Shute Shield. I just don't think it's the case.

On a side note though, I would have been pretty interested in having Harrison Goddard as one of our three halfbacks. I think he is pretty similar in quality to Jack Grant though.

Tepai Moeroa has clearly failed as a signing. He's here this year because he was already on contract. He won't be here next year.

Plenty on less than 80k - EPS (or whatever it's called these days) is 45k

 

[Braveheart81]

Plenty on less than 80k - EPS (or whatever it's called these days) is 45k

A 28 year old living in Sydney with a masters degree is not going to take a 45k contract to be a full time rugby player (Angus Sinclair).

That in itself is another discussion though - Australian rugby obsession with youth and discarding anyone over 24 who hasn't been through a system

Agree regarding Goddard but he is just another example of a "wonder kid" being discarded early . Goes to Melbourne as a 19yr old , doesn't nail it first go so now will probably be overlooked despite dominating in our only level below

It's the reality of professional squads of these sizes. It's always a case of balancing between your current best side and up and coming youngsters you are trying to develop that you think have the potential to be stars of the future.

If you're 25 or older and you're not viewed as being in the best 23 then it's hard to find a spot for more than one or two of those players in a squad. You're going to view the 20 or 21 year old as being reasonably similar currently and having a much higher ceiling.

The Waratahs squad is a bad one to look at because it is too young and doesn't have nearly enough experienced players who are also high quality.

Goddard would be the second string halfback at best at any of the Super Rugby teams. At some he'd be third. I probably would have signed him ahead of Grant but it's a pretty line ball decision there.

 

[VassMan]

Rodney has played at the Force, Brumbies and Rebels, so I think he's had opportunities to prove whether he is super rugby standard.

 

[barbarian]

Swapping in Shute players would change....... not much. Which says something in and of itself, but you'd be a bit silly to think that such a move would see any improvement in on-field results.

 

[ShuteFan1]

Rodney has played at the Force, Brumbies and Rebels, so I think he's had opportunities to proce whether he is super rugby standard.

He is currently with the brumbies right now .
Just as injury cover no doubt
Or a emergency , your know just in can case your team is 0-4 , lacking direction and struggling to score points