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Waratahs 2021

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Agree it was a success for them in developing players but the competition was not.
Its like creating a restaurant and you have the best meals in the world. Thats great but if you can't afford the food or people arent buying the meals the restaurant is not a success

Nah it was, because the measure of success for the competition is in developing players, coaches and referees in a level below super rugby. Not whether it turned a profit. Super Rugby has never turned a profit, its value to the SANZAAR countries has been that it provided players for test rugby, and test rugby is where the real money was made.

To use your analogy of restaurants, it’s like going to the casino and been given free drinks, it’s costs the casino money to provide you drinks but they know you’re going to spend even more on the tables anyway.

Or to put it more eloquently, it’s an investment in R&D, it’s not going to turn a profit but it’s going to generate long term benefits to the companies bottom line.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Absolutely it was a success from the Reds and Brumbies perspective and Brad Thorn even said so last night, fortunately for them the governing body gave it the respect it deserved, and importantly the clubs were on board with the concept as well.
Nrc struggled in nsw - to start with too many teams (4) and lack of club and nswru/tahs support...I saw inklings of it could have been successful in nsw early with memory of going to rays game at manly with decent crowd of 2000 but the too many teams and lack of nswru support and changes that hurt support rather then boltstered eg switching team from inner west to playing out of Eastwood meant what little interest in nsw nrc sides there was went to no interest with tahs/nswru support coming all too late.

I still think a revamped nrc concept could work but would need to heed the lessons learned particularly in nsw. Would need to come to some sort of compromise to get nsw clubs more on board...it was so good for pathways if supported properly as reds showed and no doubt part of the reasons tahs struggling as did not leverage this pathway
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Agree Gordon were missing from grand Final Team 1,2,8,9,10,11,12,13,14. And its first game of the year. Was never going to be a spectacle
Yep Stan sport commentators saying should be played after the grand final and given they are paying to broadcast it expect they will use their weight to have this happen in future. Also hearing club games being looked at for Friday night and Sunday Arvo’s given Stan commitment to broadcast all club games.
 

ShuteFan1

Peter Burge (5)
Nah it was, because the measure of success for the competition is in developing players, coaches and referees in a level below super rugby. Not whether it turned a profit. Super Rugby has never turned a profit, its value to the SANZAAR countries has been that it provided players for test rugby, and test rugby is where the real money was made.

To use your analogy of restaurants, it’s like going to the casino and been given free drinks, it’s costs the casino money to provide you drinks but they know you’re going to spend even more on the tables anyway.

Or to put it more eloquently, it’s an investment in R&D, it’s not going to turn a profit but it’s going to generate long term benefits to the companies bottom line.


Ok I yield the NRC was a success . Very surprised the state unions , RA and fans didn't fight harder to keep it going especially when the long term benefits were so obvious
 

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Shute Shield is a great Comp, as I’m sure the other ones across the country are. Problem is when it extends past the Super Rugby season into the international season. It’s the pointy end of the club season and players not in the wallabies want to stay in contention for a call up. They’re not going to play for the Emus, two blues or west harbour as they’re usually not in contention for the finals, so the weaker teams don’t get access to professional players or what they’ve learned in a professional setup. Then the good teams make wholesale changes to the first XV team that got them to the finals to give the Super Rugby guys a run, how’s that fair to the guys who’ve worked hard all year to get there?. It makes the weak weaker and the strong stronger. The NRC, in Sydney anyways, didn’t provide the tribalism needed to get the average fan interested. Possibly it was the general lack of success in their teams, it is also the endless changing of the teams and who they were aligned with. The SS teams and the nswru needed to get on the same page as their failure to do so is obvious with the Tahs performances this year.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
Some interesting mental gymnastics your doing there. While the NRC was cost neutral thanks to the Fox deal which for the record meant that it was viable this little thinking called the the global Covid pandemic kind of threw the spanner in the works. RA like literally every other sports body in the country had to tighten it's financial purse strings. A strong argument for it's continuation could have been made in circumstances otherwise even if it ended up costing RA $1.5m a season. And the reason why that argument could be made is literally in front of you on TV. Much of the young talent on display in Super Rugby Au are direct beneficiaries of the structure.

Unfortunately, now that it seems to be no more. We have club Rugby. Which having watched the ACC today is a noticeable step below and even more so that of Super Rugby Au. So unless the clubs manage to somehow devise a way of becoming HP semi-pro organisations we are now left in a lesser position developmental wise than we were.

IIRC, the NRC V2.0 was pretty much cost neutral to RA the way it was set up and the participating teams purchased licences off RA to operate. So it was essentially on the cusp of bringing in private investment to the game. Ironically, the NRC cost RA less than bailing out the Shute from its TV deal.

As you mentioned WCR, the World Series Australian Club Championship single game 2 team competition played at "Stadium Local Park" is a big step down. The fact they couldn't even get their best teams on the park is just laughable and really highlights its irrelevance; sorry - its importance being the Galactic Rugby Championship by invitation only for exclusive teams. I wont even touch on why we are having a final at the start of a season - not that people could think that's a bit backwards.o_O

It really doesn't provide anything to fix a problem of a publicly failing NSW Waratahs Rugby team, the flagship of NSW rugby and arguable the largest piece of the national rugby pie. The reality is the public do use a broad brush, so it is NSW rugby as a totality that looks like a national failure.

Most national sports have a feeder competition. Rugby's feeder comps are currently several steps below. The reality is we are using a comp that the average weekend warrior plays in to try and skim the cream.
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
I get your point Slim - but isn’t it okay to just promote rugby for the sake of it. Is it really that offensive that they take the view that these are likely the best two club teams?

I hope they continue to have it, but move the timing to end of season.

Not everything have to be fully inclusive to be worthwhile.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
I get your point Slim - but isn’t it okay to just promote rugby for the sake of it. Is it really that offensive that they take the view that these are likely the best two club teams?

I hope they continue to have it, but move the timing to end of season.

Not everything have to be fully inclusive to be worthwhile.

Um, so you are saying its ok if we keep with the cutting elements out theme, and keep the exclusive and elitist perception going?

Promoting a good inclusive game that's relevant to the rugby community yes, but exclusive to just NSW and QLD?

If they continue it at least call it what it is; a club level grudge match. The fact that its being tagged, promoted, referred to and called the Galactic Rugby Championship World Series Australian Club Championship is offensive to the rest of the Australian Rugby community. Especially when these so called powerhouse teams cant even get the "A' teams on the field to play this Championship which is based on the last seasons (past) results.

What part of this whole concept right now doesn't tempt criticism and ridicule?

PS: Oh, and yes, some of "our" commentary may be predicated on the fact that both competitions may have uninvited the ACT due to past indiscretions; namely beating both of them. :p
 

TSR

Andrew Slack (58)
No - that’s not what I’m saying at all. But if you can’t see that, which I think is pretty obvious, there is no point us exchanging views.

PS I’d be greatly surprised if the great majority of the Australian rugby community is offended.
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
I’d say a very small number of people are offended, and for those which are offended..I really think they need to get a grip and focus on other things. It’s hardly a big event, and realistically has only served as a glorified trial match for the past 10 years

MST, just to clarify your version of history, the Vikings were never uninvited from the Qld competition, the Vikings chose not to continue.
 

mst

Peter Johnson (47)
No - that’s not what I’m saying at all. But if you can’t see that, which I think is pretty obvious, there is no point us exchanging views.

PS I’d be greatly surprised if the great majority of the Australian rugby community is offended.

In all seriousness I do get what you saying in part. I also think its safe to say the majority of the community wont be offended as they don't know nor care about the actual game.

It just the "this" represents a continuation of a failing concept and views that after years and years still have no advanced the game. For many it again represents the NSW / QLD bias many dislike and reinforces the non-national views. Its also club competion in NSW that looks like it actively compromised the NRCs success and is failing to provide for the Tahs which in turn is hurting the game holistically.

If you step back and look at the philosophies it and the challenges facing the game its an interesting and complex situation. NSW & QLD are built on club rugby. Where as other RU's have less strength at the club level and need an NRC to both promote and develop players and build relevancy in the local sporting communities.

Sadly, the Shute Shield has become a divisive product that is perceived to coveted and protected by a powerful few that is simply no longer producing for the game. To it's credit, the NSWRU NRC ventures did try to embrace the private investment model but again to many it still looked like the Shute has a hand in its failing. The QRU was never able to, or choose not to get that private investment which many perceived as a control thing which is not what the games needs to broaden its revenue base.

But getting back to the key issue that started this; If it was called anything that didn't have a national connation in it, it would not appear to be QLD and NSW at its egotistical best and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

But old habits and naïve attitudes continue to avail. A good interstate club game is a good thing. Being tone deaf is not.
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
But getting back to the key issue that started this; If it was called anything that didn't have a national connation in it, it would not appears to be QLD and NSW at its egotistical best and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

But old habits and naïve attitudes continue to avail. A good interstate club game is a good thing. Being tone deaf is not.

Maybe because the first match between Sydney and Brisbane clubs took plaice 30 years before the Dent Cup existed.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Maybe because the first match between Sydney and Brisbane clubs took plaice 30 years before the Dent Cup existed.

Gees we have an Australian Club Championship concept mooted as part of broadcast package which commercially would be difficult to stack up...and hence unsurprisingly not much noise from Nine/Stan on taking this up....at this point commercially a national club championship involving playoff of other sides would be a stretch commercially to justify given costs, level of interest etc.

It is like the State of Union we could cry that we should have other states combined team but FFS lets commercially start smaller with the big state markets and concept bought into (NSW vs QLD), get it right then expand. Baby steps...as rugby not exactly flush with money and broadcasters lining up to take expanded commercially risky products...
 

7137

Alex Ross (28)
Gees we have an Australian Club Championship concept mooted as part of broadcast package which commercially would be difficult to stack up.and hence unsurprisingly not much noise from Nine/Stan on taking this up..at this point commercially a national club championship involving playoff of other sides would be a stretch commercially to justify given costs, level of interest etc.

It is like the State of Union we could cry that we should have other states combined team but FFS lets commercially start smaller with the big state markets and concept bought into (NSW vs QLD), get it right then expand. Baby steps.as rugby not exactly flush with money and broadcasters lining up to take expanded commercially risky products.
Small state syndrome
 

ShuteFan1

Peter Burge (5)
Is this the Tah’s thread ?

Sorry this is my fault I wrote this below originally and it got onto NRC somehow but genuinely intrigued about below

Firstly . First post . So apologies if iv missed anything but I’m a big Shute shield fan and with nothing to do in 2020 I watched lots .
I believe these players were best in their position last year or have at least dominated Shute shield in periods .
Do you think the tahs backs are clearly better ?

9.Harrison Goddard Vs Jack Grant
10.Angus sinclaire /Rodney Iona Vs Will Harrison
11.James Turner vs James Ramm
12.Enoka Muliufu vs Tepai Morea
13.Tautalatasi Tasi vs Alex Newsome
14. Tyson Davis vs Jack Maddocks
15.Tim Clements Vs Mark Nawanqanitwaswe

9.I reckon Goddard is more complete player than grant and controls a game better . Shute 1

10.Sinclaire / Iona are definitely better controllers than Harrison at this stage - although Harrison clearly superior running game. Even

11 . Everyone will say Ramm better but why ? Turner has been leading try scorer in last 2 years in a weak team . Ramm got picked from obscurity and to be fair was good last year but struggling this year. I’l say even Shute 1 Tahs 0

12 . Enoka Muliufu is Tepai just with a bigger rugby pedigree and more powerful . Would be lot cheaper too. Shute 2 tahs 0

13.Someone tell me what Newsome is good at ? Great solid player . But Lasi is bloody hard to tackle , physical and has X factor . I’ll take Lasi shute 3 tahs 0

14.Maddocks clear winner . Although clearly erratic. Shute 3 tahs 1

15. Tim Clements has been best 15 last 2 years in Shute . Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) is amazing in air and can offload but can’t defend or take contact . I’ll take proven player Shute 4 Tahs 1


Sure lot of the tahs guys have a “upside “ but what about picking the best players now ?

Obviously in perfect world you would mix and match . But I just don’t see why these tahs players have been chosen over proven Shute Shield performers
 
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