TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
Unfortunately that is not an ailment that is exclusive to the NSWRU/Waratahs.
Waratahs 2017
- Thread starter Lindommer
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TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
That doesn't at all make his statement incorrect. The old school brigade picks favourites. That doesn't mean some that miss out don't also come from similiar backgrounds.
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Why isn’t Will Miller in the Tah’s squad and why do they rarely select outside the box, the box being Australian U20’s and Australian Schoolboys.
Have a look at the back rowers / second rowers in the Waratahs Squad; all but Will Skelton came thru the U20’s Australian program.
You make the U20’s sign a super a contract, life is sweet you are not going to be pressured for you spot by someone who didn’t come thru the pathways, but had to fight their way thru Club Rugby and NRC. The only competition for your spot is from those 20 odd players who make the Australian U20’s in any given year.
Maybe this explains why the Waratahs play with a lack of urgency and it takes an absolute hard arse in Chekia to get them to play with urgency and somewhere near their potential. Maybe that is why Gibson is struggling that pressure for players to retain their spot that would exist in NZ is just not there at the Tah's. Maybe that is why foreign coaches don't suceed in Australia our players are too comfortable and secure.
All the info came from the Waratahs website play profiles and they love to quote ‘Another product of the NSW Rugby pathways’ in those profiles.
Jack Dempsey – GPS School, Australian Schoolboy, Australian U20’s and comes from a family with strong rugby connections
Ned Hanigan – GPS School, Australian Schoolboy, Australian U20’s
Dean Mumm – GPS School, Australian Schoolboy, Australian U21’s and father is a former Australian Rugby Union Board member
Jed Holloway – CAS School, Australian U20’s
Ryan McCauley – GPS School, Australian Schoolboy, Australian U20’s
Dave McDulling – GPS School, Australian Schoolboy, Australian U20’s
Senio Toleafoa – Somoa U20’s & AustralianU20’s
Michael Wells –GPS School, Australian Schoolboys, Australian U20’s
Michael Hooper – non GPS school (in Sydney), Australian Schoolboy, Australian U20’s but was first at the Brumbies, and made his Super debut for the Brumbies.
Will Seklton – Hills Sports Highs then to Waratahs Academy
Pfitzy
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Check out where Norths have finished in the years before their title - valiant strugglers. Hardly part of the ruling class in NSW Rugby in the last 30 years. Not like those just over the water.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
But I will say in Gibson's defence. I wonder how much say or influence he really has? I have yet to see Gibson's name linked with the return of Beale: that seem to have someone else at the helm. Comically the banter / chat / rhetoric on-field doesn't seem to match or reflect the coaches comments both pre and post game. As long as it good on the training paddock though, right.
My info is that he reckons that the Aussie players don't listen.
My opinion is this is why - although Will Miller did go to a favoured school, IIRC: presumably he offended someone
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
Will Miller came out the elite Scots program but was probably considered too small to make it immediately as a Super rugby player.
His ability made up for the initial rebuff. Not many rugby players will have captained a premiership winning Shute Shield club team.
I don't see evidence of the old school tie helping him.
LOL - I just found this on Wikipedia:
Will made his debut for the Rebels against the Sharks playing all 80 minutes for the Rebels in a 9-9 draw.
After his stellar debut, he was nominated for the position of Prime Minister of Australia by members of the Melbourne Rebels Rugby Union Club.
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
I like this quote of Miller's
"After I turned 17 I went to Scots College in Sydney but I used to play a bit of 1st grade with Shoalies when I came back home for the holidays etc. I used to play against the men, which was good fun, and probably gave me a lot of confidence because the next year at school, the rugby was easier. They were big boys I was facing but they weren’t men.”
http://www.rugbynews.net.au/its-miller-time-just-dont-tell-the-cows/
"After I turned 17 I went to Scots College in Sydney but I used to play a bit of 1st grade with Shoalies when I came back home for the holidays etc. I used to play against the men, which was good fun, and probably gave me a lot of confidence because the next year at school, the rugby was easier. They were big boys I was facing but they weren’t men.”
http://www.rugbynews.net.au/its-miller-time-just-dont-tell-the-cows/
Will Miller is a red herring in some respects. The greater question is this - why don't the Tahs have a backup 7?
There are a few backrow options who could play 7 at a pinch (Wilkin pre-injury, Dempsey pre-injury, maybe Wells) but no genuine 7.
For such a specialised position, of which Australia has a fairly good supply, it's pretty strange.
I suppose the logic is that Michael Hooper will play every minute of the season, so why bother filling a spot that's never going to be used. I'm not sure that's sound logic though.
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There are a few backrow options who could play 7 at a pinch (Wilkin pre-injury, Dempsey pre-injury, maybe Wells) but no genuine 7.
For such a specialised position, of which Australia has a fairly good supply, it's pretty strange.
I suppose the logic is that Michael Hooper will play every minute of the season, so why bother filling a spot that's never going to be used. I'm not sure that's sound logic though.
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I like to watch
David Codey (61)
They also signed Maclean Jones.
.......The only thing better than signing a 20's player, is to sign someone else's 20's player
.......The only thing better than signing a 20's player, is to sign someone else's 20's player
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Its a sound explanation of why no back-up 7 is in the squad, but that begs the question why he is the only player in Super Rugby who plays every minute of every game. Despite his enthusiasm and freakish fitness he's still human and IMO would be better for getting 20 minutes off every second week. Its the mental fatigue that gets you in the end and the inability to train at 100% as well as playing each weekend.
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Not the first time I have heard this when it comes to coaching at the top levels for men.
Also I believe a lot of coaches really like coaching female teams for the simple reason that they listen. Maybe the reason for the success of the Womens 7's.
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
And the kiwi prop assimilated too well?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
That's exactly why Hooper was not signed by the tahs out of school: they had Waugh - who became a corrosive influence as a result of prolonged incumbency. Is history repeating?
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
And he brumbies do listen, I think
not yesterday! Funny how only sporting women listen to men - that should flush out any woman lurking on the site.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I think I'm missing something - Latu?
Blimey someone said he'd survive if they amalgamated with force: really?
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Miller is an old boy of Scots College. Not exactly Struggle Street. In fact, classic Old Boys background.
Miller was in the Sevens programme for several years. He has done pretty well out of the game.
His statement might have an element of truth, but Miller is a pretty weird example to choose.
I think it's hard to pin this particular downturn on Hooper. To me he seems like the only one who cares right now.
But we don't know what's happening off the field. You could be right. Hard to know.
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wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
As for strange selections, has there ever been a stranger one than Jeremy Tilse? The Woodies scrum used to towel him and his mates up time after time. And yet, somehow, both he and Ryan end up with long term gigs. And our props? One or two have had an occasional sniff. That's about it.
Whilst I think Gibson needs to go as it's very hard to see him turning the team around, the trouble is who do you replace him with?
Let's assume you sacked Gibson today and put one of the assistants in charge for the rest of the season. Nathan Grey is under a ton of pressure at both Super Rugby and Wallaby level as defence coach which is struggling to contain points.
Then you've got Cameron Blades whose scrum just got towelled up by the worst scrum in South Africa. We might have been missing Sekope Kepu but the remaining players can't perform that poorly. Our lineout is average and our breakdown work is woeful. The number of times we fail to secure our own ball when we're on the front foot is startling.
So certainly you have to look for a new coach for next season and that search should be already underway, but if you sack Gibson now, who the hell do you replace him with?
Let's assume you sacked Gibson today and put one of the assistants in charge for the rest of the season. Nathan Grey is under a ton of pressure at both Super Rugby and Wallaby level as defence coach which is struggling to contain points.
Then you've got Cameron Blades whose scrum just got towelled up by the worst scrum in South Africa. We might have been missing Sekope Kepu but the remaining players can't perform that poorly. Our lineout is average and our breakdown work is woeful. The number of times we fail to secure our own ball when we're on the front foot is startling.
So certainly you have to look for a new coach for next season and that search should be already underway, but if you sack Gibson now, who the hell do you replace him with?
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