Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Providing we can get enough grunt in the scrum, that selection might almost have enough to compete with the best NZ back fives. I'm drooling already.
Waratahs 2017
- Thread starter Lindommer
- Start date
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Providing we can get enough grunt in the scrum, that selection might almost have enough to compete with the best NZ back fives. I'm drooling already.
amirite
Chilla Wilson (44)
That's always the issue with small packs - you need to be technically excellent everywhere (your scrum example is a good one).
All those great skills and extra metres their legs can get through don't matter if you get no ball.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
I know Hanigan would be small for a 2nd rower, but Dempsey at 1.91m and 108kg isn't particularly small for a 6 is he?
Whiteley is 1.93m and 106kg, Robshaw is 1.88m and 110kg, Gorgodze is 1.96m and 123kg, Fardy is 1.98m and 114kg, Mumm is 1.96m and 109kg*.
Looking at that, he's on the small side for a 6, but he's not an outlier.
Likewise Holloway is quite tall / heavy for an international 8, as shown by Forcefan's table in the Springboks vs. Wallabies thread (1.95m and 116kg to Reids 1.93m and 110kg).
Hooper is fairly standard for a 7 aswell.
So its actually not that small of a back three.
If we pair Hanigan with a higher impact and lower workrate player such as Skelton, we could have a very good balance in the back-five.
A forward pack of:
1. Ryan
2. Latu
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Hanigan
6. Dempsey
7. Hooper
8. Holloway
16. Ta'avao
17. Roach
18. Robertson
19. Mumm (likely to rotate between 5 and 19 with Hanigan)
20. Wells / Miller
Is fucking delicious. Great mobility, physicality and aggression across the park.
Combine that with our ample options in the backline and I actually think (injuries permitting) that our squad is looking very promising for next year.
* All numbers taken from Wikipedia.
Whiteley is 1.93m and 106kg, Robshaw is 1.88m and 110kg, Gorgodze is 1.96m and 123kg, Fardy is 1.98m and 114kg, Mumm is 1.96m and 109kg*.
Looking at that, he's on the small side for a 6, but he's not an outlier.
Likewise Holloway is quite tall / heavy for an international 8, as shown by Forcefan's table in the Springboks vs. Wallabies thread (1.95m and 116kg to Reids 1.93m and 110kg).
Hooper is fairly standard for a 7 aswell.
So its actually not that small of a back three.
If we pair Hanigan with a higher impact and lower workrate player such as Skelton, we could have a very good balance in the back-five.
A forward pack of:
1. Ryan
2. Latu
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Hanigan
6. Dempsey
7. Hooper
8. Holloway
16. Ta'avao
17. Roach
18. Robertson
19. Mumm (likely to rotate between 5 and 19 with Hanigan)
20. Wells / Miller
Is fucking delicious. Great mobility, physicality and aggression across the park.
Combine that with our ample options in the backline and I actually think (injuries permitting) that our squad is looking very promising for next year.
* All numbers taken from Wikipedia.
Hanigan (can we please spell his surname correctly) is listed at 194cm/110kg on the Tahs' website. That's not a handicap for a lock in Super rugby but it's a bit on the short side. If Ned's selected to run on with Skelton I reckon the second row'd be unbalanced: Will's lack of agility combined with Ned's smallish size could see us come unstuck. There's an opportunity for Power (201/117) or Mumm (196/109) to start matches with Hanigan to wear 6 or sit on the bench.
All in all a nice problem to have. Good to see some depth at 4/5/6/7 for the Tahs.
All in all a nice problem to have. Good to see some depth at 4/5/6/7 for the Tahs.
Micheal
Alan Cameron (40)
But Lindo isn't that the point of running Skelton with Hannnnnnnnnnnigan?
If we have two lightweight locks (Mumm and Hanigan) we may lack firepower in terms of ruck-smashing, ball-carrying and lineout disrupting.
If we carry two heavy locks (e.g. two Skeltons) we run the risk of not having enough mobility and workrate across the field.
You put a heavy lock with a lightweight lock and they both have individual roles within the team to complement each other?
If we have two lightweight locks (Mumm and Hanigan) we may lack firepower in terms of ruck-smashing, ball-carrying and lineout disrupting.
If we carry two heavy locks (e.g. two Skeltons) we run the risk of not having enough mobility and workrate across the field.
You put a heavy lock with a lightweight lock and they both have individual roles within the team to complement each other?
Pass it to Dunning!
Bob Loudon (25)
Hanigan's impressed me in the lineouts this NRC. Made a few steals, iirc.
AussieDominance
Trevor Allan (34)
Is Ned your grandson?
gowaratahs
Sydney Middleton (9)
Round 5 - Rams v Qld Country
I finally caught the replay of the Rams v Qld Country - I'll get to the Rays replay tomorrow - and with fewer Tahs of today and tomorrow than the Eagles game this won't be another epistle. In fact, other than a few honourable mentions I'm only going to focus the Rams' locks - Skelton and Toleafoa.
Skelton played the entire 87 minutes, and packed in an impressive 45-50 minute game. When committed, we all know the size and strength can really explosive at the higher levels however without the fitness he just dominates NRC matches. One of many examples was the very breakdown after Phil Potgeiter tore his hammie when he caught a clearance beneath his knees and was immediately set on - however managed to drag his and other bodies well over the advantage line. His work defending the rolling maul is special to watch, though it's all about fitness and motivation for the big guy. Surely the team of coaches at the Waratahs can manage those.
The mark of a good referee is being able to get in close to the action without getting in anyone's way, so perhaps Toleafoa needs to consider taking up the whistle as he's just not doing the work to show he can step up even at this level. Just simple things like leaning too high on the back of a rolling maul, and seeming to be perpetually one off the ruck rather than being actually in any stands out particularly when you're this big.
I will make 3 honourable mentions for the Rams however;
Matt Gibbon marked the Tongan Thor and bested him a number of times at the set piece, and collided heavily with him in defence at least twice for a loss and a win. I don't know much about him, though it is a fact that all 5 props on the Tahs payroll next year are (or were) tightheads - so if he wants a wider-squad contract he's got to keep up the good work.
Tyrone Viiga at No.8 was in everything and close to the best I saw, and his matchup with the Eagles' Sam Ward in the final round will be the yardstick to measure potential to grab an eighthman spot next year - pending whether Michael Wells is the spare 6 or 8. Or Naiyaravoro.
Apo Latunipulu at centre was as good as any in dragging the Rams back from 38-12 down at the 39-minute mark, to the thrilling 87th minute penalty-try victory. We are down an outside back in the extended squad, and I understand his form in the Shute Shield this year warrants close consideration. Again, the Eagles match in the final round will be instructive for an incumbent and a hopeful.
Good on you Rams, first win of 2016 - and a thriller.
I finally caught the replay of the Rams v Qld Country - I'll get to the Rays replay tomorrow - and with fewer Tahs of today and tomorrow than the Eagles game this won't be another epistle. In fact, other than a few honourable mentions I'm only going to focus the Rams' locks - Skelton and Toleafoa.
Skelton played the entire 87 minutes, and packed in an impressive 45-50 minute game. When committed, we all know the size and strength can really explosive at the higher levels however without the fitness he just dominates NRC matches. One of many examples was the very breakdown after Phil Potgeiter tore his hammie when he caught a clearance beneath his knees and was immediately set on - however managed to drag his and other bodies well over the advantage line. His work defending the rolling maul is special to watch, though it's all about fitness and motivation for the big guy. Surely the team of coaches at the Waratahs can manage those.
The mark of a good referee is being able to get in close to the action without getting in anyone's way, so perhaps Toleafoa needs to consider taking up the whistle as he's just not doing the work to show he can step up even at this level. Just simple things like leaning too high on the back of a rolling maul, and seeming to be perpetually one off the ruck rather than being actually in any stands out particularly when you're this big.
I will make 3 honourable mentions for the Rams however;
Matt Gibbon marked the Tongan Thor and bested him a number of times at the set piece, and collided heavily with him in defence at least twice for a loss and a win. I don't know much about him, though it is a fact that all 5 props on the Tahs payroll next year are (or were) tightheads - so if he wants a wider-squad contract he's got to keep up the good work.
Tyrone Viiga at No.8 was in everything and close to the best I saw, and his matchup with the Eagles' Sam Ward in the final round will be the yardstick to measure potential to grab an eighthman spot next year - pending whether Michael Wells is the spare 6 or 8. Or Naiyaravoro.
Apo Latunipulu at centre was as good as any in dragging the Rams back from 38-12 down at the 39-minute mark, to the thrilling 87th minute penalty-try victory. We are down an outside back in the extended squad, and I understand his form in the Shute Shield this year warrants close consideration. Again, the Eagles match in the final round will be instructive for an incumbent and a hopeful.
Good on you Rams, first win of 2016 - and a thriller.
#nosevens #derderkader
Dalai Ninja
Ward Prentice (10)
I think the proposed combinations pan out at about 925kg. That's not light, although with Hanigan in the 2nd row it will be slightly short.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
In recent times to most dominant defensive Lineout forward for both the Tahs and the Brumbies was Ben Mowen. 195cm and 110Kg from the Player Profile.
I just don't understand the height argument when it comes to lineout. Defensive work comes down to being able to anticipate the call and agility, on attack so much is based around the timing with the Hooker and the latter's accuracy. Height is nice but certainly far from the be all some are making it out to be.
Mowen is certainly the only backrower in recent times in Australian rugby that has come anywhere near the success of Reid.
If Hanigan can execute anywhere near as well as Mowen there will be no problem at all and we may be able to field a side that can actually pressure opposition ball for a change.
I just don't understand the height argument when it comes to lineout. Defensive work comes down to being able to anticipate the call and agility, on attack so much is based around the timing with the Hooker and the latter's accuracy. Height is nice but certainly far from the be all some are making it out to be.
Mowen is certainly the only backrower in recent times in Australian rugby that has come anywhere near the success of Reid.
If Hanigan can execute anywhere near as well as Mowen there will be no problem at all and we may be able to field a side that can actually pressure opposition ball for a change.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
No he's not Lindommer's grandson but there is an elliptical connection, because Lindommer mentioned the correct spelling of Hanigan's surname.
When Ned was still at school I asked Ned's real grandfather how to spell the name because it was spelled differently in various programmes - and he got it wrong (he was Ned's mum's dad). So I started spelling it "Hanigan".
But when I asked Ned the year after he left school he gave me the correct spelling; so I changed back.
That wasted five minutes.
.
T
TOCC
Guest
Yep but the key term there is defensive line out... a 195cm player jumping defensively at 2 isn't an issue and is typically the preferred spot for a jumper of that height. Usually easier to lift and a bit faster off the ground.
It's when you start talking about offensive line outs that the height becomes an issue, especially when you have the likes of Skelton in the pack who isn't easy to shift off the ground..you want your height jumping around 4 or 6 so you can sacrifice a shorter jumper at the front(hanigan). But when that height comes in the form of Skelton, you need to offset that with your blindside and number 8 both been genuine line out targets
It's not impossible to balance, less so at super rugby then it is at test level
gowaratahs
Sydney Middleton (9)
NRC Round 5 - Sydney Rays v Brisbane City
Rounding out the three matches displaying current, future and potential Tahs is the Rays game which had a handful of players currently on the radar.
Damien Fitzpatrick - for a guy who's apparently signed, there's not a lot of media about it and not a mention during Sunday's telecast. I saw him interviewed on Fox Sports a fortnight back nor was it mentioned then, so any talk of a signing at the Tahs may be preemptive. However he is showing the form, fitness and forward-pack leadership to be a real asset if he does sign - as long as he stays injury free (tap tap).
Connor Vest - with Toleafoa setting the bar pretty low, Connor Vest is certainly out-working him. There's at least a couple of vacant lock positions going in the extended squad, with McCauley, Philip and Buchanan also challenging.
Jack Dempsey - doing things accurately, aggressively and at pace is what you want from a young guy like Dempsey, and he's delivering in spades. He mightn't have been best on ground, however he did a lot of things that got him close.
Michael Wells - nothing special on Sunday, though seemed to have a decent workrate in defence if not exactly outstanding in attack. Seems comfortable in the 8 jumper, which may be his best bet for game time in 2017 (though listed in 20).
Matt Lucas - continues to play and captain a very good game. I know Ricky January wasn't the biggest scrummie either, but I feel that with his size limitation he's not going to be a run-on scrumhalf at Super Rugby level and could find himself leap-frogged by Jake Gordon by the end of 2017. It's a pity, because I agree he makes a great leader.
Irea Simone - easily best on ground - he can dance, he can sing, he can do anything. Great feet, great hands, size, speed, strength, he can defend, and despite his time out of the game he knows enough about the breakdown that he can wave his arms about to alert the ref to an indiscretion - if it pulls one penalty in a year it's better than nothing. This guy is headed for the match-day 23 with a rocket, and his potential seems limitless.
Forming perhaps the best centre pairing in the comp with Simone is former sevens ace Con Foley. He also had a big game in his own right, busting tackles, running off the inside backs, and doing the things Ashley-Cooper and Horne did so well as 13s. I'd have him well in front of Horwitz in that position - and as mentioned in my previous post we do have a vacancy out wide that Latunipulu of the Rams is also challenging for.
Finally winger Harry Jones had a busy afternoon with several involvements - not all effective - though a reminder to Reece Robinson that there's more to being a winger than hugging the sideline. Threw a slick flick to put away his other winger for a try, though needs to have a few special moments in the final rounds and finals if he wants to convince Gibson he's worthy of a a matchday jumper.
Honourable mentions to two BC players: Lukhan Tui is playing like a smaller Will Skelton at his peak; and well done to Isi Naisarani at eighthman who's scored a Force contract - he was easily the most destructive player for Brisbane on Sunday.
Round six is coming, with the ladder-leading Eagles away to cellar-dwelling QLD Country, the second-placed Rays at home to the Vikings, and the Rams away to the Rising. In amongst other grand finals, I'm grateful for the long weekend and daylight savings!
Rounding out the three matches displaying current, future and potential Tahs is the Rays game which had a handful of players currently on the radar.
Damien Fitzpatrick - for a guy who's apparently signed, there's not a lot of media about it and not a mention during Sunday's telecast. I saw him interviewed on Fox Sports a fortnight back nor was it mentioned then, so any talk of a signing at the Tahs may be preemptive. However he is showing the form, fitness and forward-pack leadership to be a real asset if he does sign - as long as he stays injury free (tap tap).
Connor Vest - with Toleafoa setting the bar pretty low, Connor Vest is certainly out-working him. There's at least a couple of vacant lock positions going in the extended squad, with McCauley, Philip and Buchanan also challenging.
Jack Dempsey - doing things accurately, aggressively and at pace is what you want from a young guy like Dempsey, and he's delivering in spades. He mightn't have been best on ground, however he did a lot of things that got him close.
Michael Wells - nothing special on Sunday, though seemed to have a decent workrate in defence if not exactly outstanding in attack. Seems comfortable in the 8 jumper, which may be his best bet for game time in 2017 (though listed in 20).
Matt Lucas - continues to play and captain a very good game. I know Ricky January wasn't the biggest scrummie either, but I feel that with his size limitation he's not going to be a run-on scrumhalf at Super Rugby level and could find himself leap-frogged by Jake Gordon by the end of 2017. It's a pity, because I agree he makes a great leader.
Irea Simone - easily best on ground - he can dance, he can sing, he can do anything. Great feet, great hands, size, speed, strength, he can defend, and despite his time out of the game he knows enough about the breakdown that he can wave his arms about to alert the ref to an indiscretion - if it pulls one penalty in a year it's better than nothing. This guy is headed for the match-day 23 with a rocket, and his potential seems limitless.
Forming perhaps the best centre pairing in the comp with Simone is former sevens ace Con Foley. He also had a big game in his own right, busting tackles, running off the inside backs, and doing the things Ashley-Cooper and Horne did so well as 13s. I'd have him well in front of Horwitz in that position - and as mentioned in my previous post we do have a vacancy out wide that Latunipulu of the Rams is also challenging for.
Finally winger Harry Jones had a busy afternoon with several involvements - not all effective - though a reminder to Reece Robinson that there's more to being a winger than hugging the sideline. Threw a slick flick to put away his other winger for a try, though needs to have a few special moments in the final rounds and finals if he wants to convince Gibson he's worthy of a a matchday jumper.
Honourable mentions to two BC players: Lukhan Tui is playing like a smaller Will Skelton at his peak; and well done to Isi Naisarani at eighthman who's scored a Force contract - he was easily the most destructive player for Brisbane on Sunday.
Round six is coming, with the ladder-leading Eagles away to cellar-dwelling QLD Country, the second-placed Rays at home to the Vikings, and the Rams away to the Rising. In amongst other grand finals, I'm grateful for the long weekend and daylight savings!
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
One thing I've noticed this season that has been bothering me quite a bit with Jones. His kicking game. From all reports he has a sizeable boot but he seems to miskick the ball more often than not. He also tends to use the chip or grubber in behind far too often.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Possessing a strong yet accurate kicking game could really be a feather in his cap. Just at the moment he just seems to be hacking at it with little reward. That and he needs to look to cut back in looking to find support more when space on the flanks is limited insteas of trying to do it all himself.
Jagman
Trevor Allan (34)
Article on foxsports says broken arm might mean TPN returns to aus but it would be complicated because Fitzpatrick is signed to the Tahs according to the article http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
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