Waratahs 2014

[JSRF10]

It's been a while since the Tahs had a really reliable kicker.

Peter Hewat was good for a while and before him, Matt Burke.

It's definitely a recurring theme amongst Australian franchises.

It has been an Australian problem for a long time, I'm struggling to understand it. Becoming a good goal kicker is about practice, practice, practice with a coach ensuring you have a good technique.

I addressed this before in a different thread but there just seems to be something in the mindset of the players that they think their natural talent will shine through to their goal kicking which unfortunately isn't the case. Admittedly the franchises and ARU haven't helped with their reluctance in hiring full time kicking coaches for each team.

 

[Ash]

You'd think that the Tahs are choosing between Beale, McKibbin, Foley, and Lance for the kicking duties.

Can't Crawford kick a bit as well?

 

[Hawko]

Can't Crawford kick a bit as well?

If Crawford could step up he would be the best option. He's got a long punt kick so he would definitely be worth a try. Of all the candidates so far he is the most likely one to start in all matches.

 

[Lee Grant]

It's been a while since the Tahs had a really reliable kicker..

McKibbin was one of the best goal-kickers in the comp in 2012.

I kept track of every kick at goal of every player in 2012, something I promised myself I would never do again.

He was over 80% for most of the season for those who kicked over 40 attempts, or some number like that and he took most of the Tahs' kicks that year because he was going so well.

I think he finished at over 80% also.

But last year he was ordinary and Barnes wasn't much better, though I haven't looked him up.

But Kibbo won't be starting in many games if Phipps stays healthy.

Foley is nothing much of a goal-kicker and as I mentioned earlier in this thread somewhere: Beale's good goal kicking is episodic.

Mehrtens will be earning his pay.

If I remember correctly, the Waratahs didn't take one kick at goal in the trials last year. Perhaps Cheika will have the Tahs take the shots in the trials, not because he is interested in the score line but to see who has the best goal-kicking form.

Maybe history will repeat itself.

If memory serves KB (Kurtley Beale) got the kicking duties after slotting a few from near touch in trials in his first or second year of pro rugby.
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[Braveheart81]

McKibbin was one of the best goal-kickers in the comp in 2012.

Definitely. His strong goal kicking in that season also helped push Pretorius out of the starting team.

He wasn't great in 2013 though and missed some crucial kicks that cost us games (such as against the Rebels).

I think he is another one who can be a good goal kicker but his form isn't consistent enough (like Beale or Barnes).

If he kicks like he did in 2012 though and other kickers don't do so well, he could certainly improve his claims on the starting jersey again.

Ideally we don't want to have to make selection compromises based on goal kicking.

 

[Lindommer]

The three missed kicks at the death against the Rebels (I flew all the way down to Melbourne to watch that one), Saders and Reds cost us dearly last year. This simply must not be repeated in 2014.

 

[Jagman]

From memory Barnes had a good year in 2012. I think he was also well above 80% which was noteworthy considering he only kicked the 45+ meter goals.

Then last year he and McKibbon were terrible. I had thought that McKibbon was carrying a groin injury though because he really looked bad in his Last Shute game and Barnes too seemed to tighten up every time he kicked a goal.

Foley has some games where he absolutely nails them like how we beat the Blues last year and also in the Shute final against Eastwood. I don't think he missed one and there where many conversions to be taken by Uni in that game. In contrast though he missed almost every shot in the finals qualifier against Manly a few weeks earlier and that was the reason why they were trailing right up to the last field goal, which Foley redeemed himself with.

 

[boyo]

It has been an Australian problem for a long time, I'm struggling to understand it. Becoming a good goal kicker is about practice, practice, practice with a coach ensuring you have a good technique.

I addressed this before in a different thread but there just seems to be something in the mindset of the players that they think their natural talent will shine through to their goal kicking which unfortunately isn't the case. Admittedly the franchises and ARU haven't helped with their reluctance in hiring full time kicking coaches for each team.

Slightly off-topic (considering the thread title) but J. Wilkinson practises his kicking a lot.

 

[Rob42]

The three missed kicks at the death against the Rebels (I flew all the way down to Melbourne to watch that one), Saders and Reds cost us dearly last year. This simply must not be repeated in 2014.

Goal-kicking seems to cost us at least a game every year, I agree the lack of interest in excellent goal-kicking amongst pro players is strange.

 

[fatprop]

Goal-kicking seems to cost us at least a game every year, I agree the lack of interest in excellent goal-kicking amongst pro players is strange.

Doesn't it cost most sides? I remember even seeing Carter have a 'mare

 

[Lee Grant]

What we do not discuss enough when talking about who is a good team, or the favoured team, or whatever, is the big picture of a team. We are too fond of talking about the spectacular or interesting things

Goal kicking or kicking from hand—in particular: doing so with the left foot—is part of the picture but it is hardly ever discussed (except in the last few days) yet it means a lot on the scoreboard.

Goal kicking is directly related to the scoring but clearing the ball out from your red zone has an indirect effect because if you can't clear the ball from your 22 regularly, you have a statistical chance to cough up more points than other teams in the comp who can.

And if you happen to be playing a side that is better at clearing the ball on the day you can lose games because of it—yet it won't show up in any stats. People will say: "Geez they had good possession, and tackled well, and how about their scrums; how did they lose?"

Well, the Tahs lost that 2013 game against the Crusaders because of poor clearances or "exits" as they call them now. Everyone talks about the missed shot at goal in the 80th minute by Barnes because it was obvious, but it wouldn't have mattered if the Tahs had cleared the ball from the 22 better in the second half.

Part of that might have been running the ball to a fault, but the lack of a left-footed kicker may have been another part, because sometimes you can set him up to clear the pill from a ruck, lineout or scrum in the sector of the field nearest to your right-hand corner post.

But in that game Drew Mitchell, the designated LF kicker of the Tahs, didn't come on until 12 minutes to go.

Often running with the ball too much is deliberate, but if opponents swarm out of their line repeatedly to pressure a team trying to get out of their 22 (as the Crusaders did that day) they don't allow kickers time to kick on their favoured foot. So they run.

When nobody in the team can kick with their left foot, they can all be forced to run the ball out.

When I asked Daryl Gibson last Thursday about who in the 2014 Tahs could kick with their left foot, he said nobody in the squad could, and that made "tactical kicking difficult". You think, Daryl?

So if people start looking at the limitations of the Waratahs last year being brought forward to 2014, they can look at not converting enough scoring opportunities into tries, not having a good lineout quarterback (if Chapman doesn't start) and not being physical or meticulous enough at the breakdown—but they also have to add poor goal kicking and left-foot kicking from hand.
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[Inside Shoulder]

Goal kicking or kicking from hand—in particular: doing so with the left foot—is part of the picture but it is hardly ever discussed (except in the last few days) yet it means a lot on the scoreboard.

So if people start looking at the limitations of the Waratahs last year being brought forward to 2014, they can look at not converting enough scoring opportunities into tries, not having a good lineout quarterback (if Chapman doesn't start) and not being physical or meticulous enough at the breakdown—but they also have to add poor goal kicking and left-foot kicking from hand.
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These guys are pros.
If you are a back you must have a left foot kick and you must have enough confidence in it to be able to go to it instinctively and without trying to run around on to your right foot.
There are 21 other hours even in the training days in which to practice it.

 

[tranquility]

Very excited to see Jono Lance get a shot at 12. The bloke is perfect for the role, and just got log-jammed in QLD. Will be a player we rue losing in the future.

 

[Hawko]

I am starting to get a good feeling! When the Tah supporters on the forum are beginning to discuss "why the Tahs might not go so well this year" rather than the usual then it seems a dose of reality has set in.

We don't have a squad that can do everything well; there again who has? The champion team had a number of significant weaknesses in their backline but had a magnificent scrambling defence that got them out of a lot of trouble. You make a linebreak against the Chiefs and you are less than halfway there because of that ability to scramble. What is crucial is not what weaknesses you have but how you cover for them. So, what I want to see is how we overcome those weaknesses.

Listing some of the Tahs known weaknesses in no particular order of priority:

• Goalkicking: One way to overcome that weakness is to not take the harder penalty kicks. Instead, put it into the corner, take the lineout and maul it over. If it works every second time, you should be in front as seven points is greater than two times three. Additionally, emphasise that players MUST bring the ball round towards the posts. If I had a dollar for every millionaire dive that was totally unnecessary I'd be a millionaire. How many tries were lost last year because players tried to improve the position. I can't remember one!
• Left foot field kicking: If you are a right footer kicking for the right hand touch the maximum you should lose is 10-15 metres. Accept that as realistic, but then realise that its often much worse because of slow delivery to the kicker. So, make sure that your kicker is under the least possible pressure by passing fast and accurately. (Mr Phipps I am talking to you).
• Lineout: With our top team in we are going to be limited with our lineout jumping. Dennis, Douglas and then we're down to Palu (assuming Potgeiter doesn't jump). We need to spend a lot of time practising so we maximise our skills and have lots of specialty variations.
• Physicality at the breakdown: In my mind, this is the key weakness that will define our season. No way to get around this weakness, we need to attack it head on (except for Taf who does already with dire consequences). Every player has to play like Burger, without the dirty stuff. Breakdowns have to become a thing that oppositions fear. Last year no one feared going into a breakdown against us. That has to change.

 

[Lee Grant]

Very excited to see Jono Lance get a shot at 12. The bloke is perfect for the role, and just got log-jammed in QLD. Will be a player we rue losing in the future.

Are you sure you want him up there tranquility?

He said the other day that he always went for Blues in the State of Origin and he had a hard time up there in the past few years because everybody knew it.

Better to send the traitors back down south.

These guys are pros.

If you are a back you must have a left foot kick and you must have enough confidence in it to be able to go to it instinctively and without trying to run around on to your right foot.

There are 21 other hours even in the training days in which to practice it.

Absolutely; Wilko always practised kicking with his right foot and he is half-way decent at it.

Not everybody is as obsessive-compulsive as the great England player is, but he illustrates how somebody who is not the greatest athlete can rise up to the next level and then another.

He wanted it and did it the work, which indicates that not enough players want it badly enough.

I know a guy who taught his boy to kick with both feet from a young age.

Now the lad kicks goals from a long way out with his right foot and can punt the ball a mile too. But if you watched him punt with his left foot only, you would have no clue that he was a right-footed kicker.

He can hoof it off that foot too, which means that he doesn't have to spend time realigning his body to kick with his right foot, nor have to take that extra step to plant his left to kick with the right—which may be a step too late.

He played for Aus Schools last year and is running around with the Under 20s in practice trying to get into the NSW Colts team.

I think he's a chance to get into Super Rugby down the track and people will soon discover how he can kick with both feet and write about it in the forum. Maybe he will start a trend.

It's of no purpose to mention his name: the point is that players have to be taught to kick with both feet, young. If coaches don't have their charges training to do that they are negligent.
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[gowaratahs]

Lee spoke earlier about one of those other attributes (eg. left foot kicking) that required for the bigger picture of the team. I'd like to suggest that leadership - not necessarily captaincy, but more related to gee-ing the boys up and keeping them focused - may be diminishing as players turnover. The role Waugh, Burgess and Carter have played over time might not show up on a stats sheet, but it adds to the performance and can be the difference between relatively equal sides.

Who are the Waughs, Burgesses and Carters this year? McKibbin off the bench and TPN when fit? Is that it?

Who are the "leaders" in 2014?

 

[tranquility]

It's of no purpose to mention his name: the point is that players have to be taught to kick with both feet, young. If coaches don't have their charges training to do that they are negligent.
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Quade always practiced kicking from his non-preferred from a young age. Not that we have seen alot of it, but he has a pretty commendable punt from his left peg.

 

[Lee Grant]

Who are the Waughs, Burgesses and Carters this year? McKibbin off the bench and TPN when fit? Is that it?

Who are the "leaders" in 2014?

You're right, leadership is one of the important attributes that there are no stats on and we don't talk about a lot.

The Tahs don't have a lot of natural captains in their team and the one guy who is won't be a regular starter—Pat McCutcheon—but off the field he has some presence with them as club captain.

Fat Cat and TPN have a bit to say especially at scrum practice which has been ramping up lately.

Hooper is a future captain, I think, and I'd to see him rev up the boys more in 2014: not only that but having a quick quiet word on the run. He's young but his outstanding record in his short time at a high level should give him some gravitas.

I'd be interested in how Phipps performs bossing the forwards this year too. They should get NFJ to talk to him: he's the best Wallaby captain I ever saw and could he boss the piggies !!



Talking of captains: I was watching Ulster v Munster a little while back and Paul O'Connell, who has captained Munster, Ireland and the British and Irish Lions kept chirping the ref.

The ref pulled the current Munster captain, Peter O'Mahony, over. If POC didn't stop talking to him he would do something about it, said Alain Rolland, who has played for Ireland himself and was not about to be impressed by an Ireland legend.

The glare of Big Paulie was profound.

So the next time there was a discussion, there is POC standing next to O'Mahony listening to Rolland and telling O'Mahony what to say back—and all in earshot of the referee.

Rolland had the last laugh though: he gave POC a yellow card in the 79th minute.

O'Connell, what a character: his players would go through brick walls for him, captain or not.

A couple of Big Paulies would be good to have at the Waratahs—or even some little ones.
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[Lee Grant]

Breakdowns have to become a thing that oppositions fear. Last year no one feared going into a breakdown against us. That has to change.

The Tahs have spent more time at breakdown work than any other element of the game.

In the pre-season they have spent more time at it than they did by the same time in 2013 and 2102—in fact I saw little ruck work at all last year before the first trial, though I'd only see one session a week.

I will be very disappointed if the ruck work isn't noticeably better this year, including from the backs.

Their passing and catching hasn't been that hot though in the four squads they do full movements in—though each team is laced with some Invited Players, who influence that kind of thing.
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[Inside Shoulder]

It's of no purpose to mention his name: the point is that players have to be taught to kick with both feet, young. If coaches don't have their charges training to do that they are negligent.
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I may have named him from time to time on this very basis (although if I have I can assure you his old man couldn't kick with either foot) if its not the boy I have named then that means the Aus Schools team had 2 such players.
Maybe the message is getting through.