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Waratahs 2014

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Absent Friend

Peter Burge (5)
Hugh Roach is listed in a recent article in Rugby News as 101kg and the ARU stats have him at 178cms in the U20 media guide. Same height as Latu but 9kg lighter, as an ametur. Dont really understand this fixation with his size being "too small" when his workrate is so high and speed around the park for a hooker is exemplary. He is not a #7 in my opinion but has a real shot at #2 with a couple of years professional programme under his belt.
 

JT0406

Allen Oxlade (6)
Hugh Roach is listed in a recent article in Rugby News as 101kg and the ARU stats have him at 178cms in the U20 media guide. Same height as Latu but 9kg lighter, as an ametur. Dont really understand this fixation with his size being "too small" when his workrate is so high and speed around the park for a hooker is exemplary. He is not a #7 in my opinion but has a real shot at #2 with a couple of years professional programme under his belt.

9kg lighter and also lacking strength/force come collision time (incl. scrummaging) could be the point of difference.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
9kg lighter and also lacking strength/force come collision time (incl. scrummaging) could be the point of difference.

Yeah the scrummaging angle is interesting . I can't imagine that being a decent LHP for his age would have done Latu any harm in scrummaging as a hooker.

I have nothing against Roach but his lineout throwing. He's a hard young player.
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Absent Friend

Peter Burge (5)
Yeah the scrummaging angle is interesting . I can't imagine that being a decent LHP for his age would have done Latu any harm in scrummaging as a hooker.

I have nothing against Roach but his lineout throwing. He's a hard young player.
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I think we will all be interested to see what effect the new engagement laws and depowered hit has on the role of the entire front row including the hooker. It will also be interesting to see how the Tahs want to play their first and last 20 minute periods. All hookers have to practice throwing under pressure and when fatigued. Like golfers, that 3 footer on the play off hole for par always seems a lot more difficult than the 5 footer on the third hole for birdie. A prop transitioning to hooker is starting from a difficult place, just ask Pek Cowan. All these young guys need more practice in pressure situations and more game time, not more simulations and more training runs. Bring on Super B.
 

Rob

Sydney Middleton (9)
9kg lighter and also lacking strength/force come collision time (incl. scrummaging) could be the point of difference.

You've obviously never watched roach play. He is amazing in collisions. People just cant tackle him. Have watched him since school and he never ceases to amaze me.

He is so good that when Damien Fitz came back to Eastwood instead of putting him back to 2nds the coach kept him in firsts, out of position at 7 and he has been fantastic. How many other hookers are that good?

THis obsession with size is annoying and I see CHieka heading in the size direction. I would like my Tahs team to be good rugby players. Tahs have a very poor history of selecting talent and I don't see it changing anytime soon - so Roaches future will be elsewhere
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
What school Iluv??
I'm pretty sure that it was South Sydney High.

He was a member of the Canterbury Jnr Club which won a couple of SJRU titles in U14 onwards, and played reps for the Hobbits, which IIRC won a State title or two (or were silver medalists).
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
THis obsession with size is annoying and I see CHieka heading in the size direction. I would like my Tahs team to be good rugby players. Tahs have a very poor history of selecting talent and I don't see it changing anytime soon - so Roaches future will be elsewhere

Good old Waratah fan optimism!

It's possible that size will matter a lot with the new scrum laws and that Cheika is thinking in that direction.
 

Rob

Sydney Middleton (9)
Good old Waratah fan optimism!

It's possible that size will matter a lot with the new scrum laws and that Cheika is thinking in that direction.

Disagree. I suspect that new scrum laws will do the opposite - see BLades comments the other day. Large props and hookers who gained an advantage from trailing after the engagement will now have to actually use more technique as they will be starting the context from a more stationary position.
 

JT0406

Allen Oxlade (6)
What about large props/hooker with size AND technique!

Technique can be taught, sheer power & force due to size can not, natural ability.

Nothing against Roach, he would be a valid assest at whos expense?

I'm suspecting this is Cheika view given his recent selection. Though Holmes is there, maybe diff horses for diff courses.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Large props and hookers who gained an advantage from trailing after the engagement will now have to actually use more technique as they will be starting the context from a more stationary position.

The stationary position is key to the change even if it is for a brief moment. I wish the referees would pay more attention to this matter than the two refs in Argentina did - especially the second one.

I thought the bind on the 'bind' command should have been longer so there was not so much 'play' possible between shoulder and shoulder. Instead there was so much 'play' that a mini-hit was possible on the 'set'.

McKibbin realised this when he came off the bench in the second game and delayed the put-in until the scrum was steady, probably thinking that a delay, and the possible sanction against him for doing so, was not worse for NSW than if he put the ball in as the Argies were moving forward.

I'd like to see the referees being fussier about the bind being long and the scrum steady than in those two games—then the push coming only when the ball is put in as the laws stipulate. This is what the best referees insisted on in the 1950s and 1960s.

Otherwise we will see the rebirth of the hit and its eventual escalation—and on the other side of things we will see the tiresome delay of the put-in which was mastered by Gregan.
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masai

Frank Nicholson (4)
He is so good that when Damien Fitz came back to Eastwood instead of putting him back to 2nds the coach kept him in firsts, out of position at 7 and he has been fantastic. How many other hookers are that good?

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that he was shifted to 7 because he was too good to drop. Fitzpatrick is now long gone and Roach is still playing 7 with the coach preferring Pearce at hooker. I think the more likely inference here is that Roach's hooker-specific skills aren't up to par just yet.
 

Rob

Sydney Middleton (9)
What about large props/hooker with size AND technique!

Technique can be taught, sheer power & force due to size can not, natural ability.

Nothing against Roach, he would be a valid assest at whos expense?

I'm suspecting this is Cheika view given his recent selection. Though Holmes is there, maybe diff horses for diff courses.

Your missing the point. A big part of the advantage of a large prop - the hit is diminished under the new laws. Don't take my word for it - refer to BLadesy's analysis somewhere on this website.
 

Rob

Sydney Middleton (9)
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that he was shifted to 7 because he was too good to drop. Fitzpatrick is now long gone and Roach is still playing 7 with the coach preferring Pearce at hooker. I think the more likely inference here is that Roach's hooker-specific skills aren't up to par just yet.

I suggest you ask John Manneti (the Woods Coach) and if you do you will find out that you are wrong.
 

Rob

Sydney Middleton (9)
The stationary position is key to the change even if it is for a brief moment. I wish the referees would pay more attention to this matter than the two refs in Argentina did - especially the second one.

I thought the bind on the 'bind' command should have been longer so there was not so much 'play' possible between shoulder and shoulder. Instead there was so much 'play' that a mini-hit was possible on the 'set'.


.

Don't think the new rules aim to delete the hit altogether - just reduce it.
 

JSRF10

Dick Tooth (41)
Going by the Rebels website he is was a skills coach and John Muggleton was the defensive coach (both are listed as Assistant Coach but Muggleton is referenced as one of the top defense coaches in the world).

Hopefully Greys appointment will take a bit of pressure of Cheika who I assume was looking after forwards and defense? Cheika IMO has always appointed his assistants very well so if this was Cheikas decision I'm happy enough to let it play out before the Waratah Whinge.

With Gaffney taking a step back next year I assume our coaching set up will be Cheika (forwards), Grey(D) and Gibson (attack and skills). All we need is a kicking coach and the rugby staff would look in decent shape.
 

Absent Friend

Peter Burge (5)
I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that he was shifted to 7 because he was too good to drop. Fitzpatrick is now long gone and Roach is still playing 7 with the coach preferring Pearce at hooker. I think the more likely inference here is that Roach's hooker-specific skills aren't up to par just yet.
I noticed on the last 2 ABC games where Eastwood have featured, and Roach has played #7, he has still kept the throwing duties. I guess either he is not as bad as reported here or the throw in is not so important? The former I suspect!
 
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