Waratahs 2014
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wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I just do not understand this kind of simplistic assertion. Folau might be a sensation in the centres, he has all the attributes for sure. Who is to say that the Waratahs and the Wallabies might not be stronger with him in the centres?
Good teams will not kick to him, if he is at full-back. Simple as that.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
KB (Kurtley Beale) tends to being a good defender when he is focused and on song. He drops this quality when his focus is on other things (like alcohol). No one was criticising his defence in 2011, he was considered one of the more reliable and effective defenders in the backline. But in 2012/13 his defence was substandard.
He has the capacity to be an excellent defender; whether he is or not depends on whether he is fully football-focused. I suspect that he will be well-focused this season, he knows his career is on the line, but we will have to wait and see when he runs out. This is what they mean, I think, when they say that elite sports are 90% in your head.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I was.
I don't accept that he has ever been one of the more reliable and effective defenders.
In attack he has a tendency to run across field and if he does that at 12 he will be murdered.
I would not be surprised if he displaces Foley as the starting 10, however.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Sorry, just to clarify, I would leave Izzy at 15 for the reasons you say. I just refer to injecting him into the line in attack when required. Comming up from 15 will also insure he hits the ball at pace.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
At 10 in attack as you say, he moves side wards. Same issue Giteau had. Foley having showed he is more direct suits the 10 better. That extra space from 12 is something I think Beale can really exploit. Much the same way as Gits was able to do outside Cooper in 2010 and Larkham earlier in his career. The other thing with Beale is he has a great ability to get that second touch. Even a tendency to drift at 12 will create space on an inside channel. You wouldn't want it happening all the time but none the less it presents another option. The thing to consider is compared to years gone by, you have a 10 that provides the attacking platform. It is of a better quality than Beale at 12 in the past has ever had.
Same as the 12 debate in the Reds thread, it only proves you fellas have options.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
That dog could lose a few pounds but what do you expect given it is off season?
Rugby topics are a bit few and far between ATM.
I guess you're right. but the dog is funny.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
I just don't get the logic that the Waratahs move the incumbent Wallaby fullback to the wing, in order to accomodate KB (Kurtley Beale). Surely anyone would have to prove that they are better than Folau in order to take his spot in either the Walllabies or Waratahs?
M
Moono75
Guest
you realise this forum is no place to be talking such common sense! Both great attacking players, you just don't want one of them standing out on the wing twiddling their thumbs waiting for the ball to get to them. An embarrassement of riches selection wise at the Tahs in 2014.
Because both were wallaby fullbacks in 2013 and it would be crazy not to leverage both of them.
Now using that logic, the next question is how do you fit both of them in the side
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T
Train Without a Station
Guest
The fact that he is the best under the high ball in Australia. And that playing at fullback does nothing to negatively affect how he could attack in the centres. Where as at fullback he defends the high ball, whilst can also roam in attack, popping up off 10, 12, 13 at pace making his bulk more difficult to defend and anywhere else as opposed to being constrained and typically a 2nd or 3rd receiver in the backline. That's why the Waratahs and Wallabies might not be stronger with him in the centres.
We tried similar with Digby at 13 for the Reds mate. Was more of a hindrance than help to his game.
p.Tah
John Thornett (49)
The key thing is unless our name is Michael Cheika we don't have to fit Folau, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Horne, Betham, Crawford, Foley, et al into a back line. Looking forward to the season to see how it all gets together. I know we will win this year because my best mate who never misses a Tahs game, is moving to Ireland and just signed up to Munster. He is destined to miss the Super Rugby win. There is so much in the water that leads to a Waratah win which I won't go into. 2014 bring it on. It's going to be a great year.
Alex
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Couple of thoughts on Beale and Folau:
1. I have always felt that Beale was going to end up somewhere other than 10 - not to say that he wasn't quite good as a 10, but his natural skillset is not suited to playing that close to the forwards at the top level. Beale is great at reading broken play, he is faster than he looks, he is very very good at getting outside a man, sucking in the next defender and setting his outside man free. At 10 this cramps his outside backs, at 15 his wingers are made to look like geniuses. I would prefer not to see him play 10 or 12, I think he is better suited further out. Foley and Horne had a nice combination last year and I would be inclined to keep that.
2. Folau did some wonderful things last season, but he is far from the finished article. His defence at 15 was nothig to get excited about and I would not be picking him over Beale at fullback for that reason alone. That said, I think a lot of that was inexperience and not onlywill he get better, he has the potential to be much better than Beale. The things he does unbelievably well is field the high ball and make yards in traffic. When he is fullback the opposition are afraid to kick and when he comes into the line he is unstoppable. That said, I have not seen the counterattacking skills from the back that he is credited with. When he fields a ball in the deep he still looks tentative to me - not sure whether to run or kick and not great at manipulating the defence to put one of his wingers away (which is Beale's greatest strength). No doubt he will get better at this also, but he is naturally a runner and a finisher, not a playmaker. Having Beale on the wing to direct the counterattack could be an option. Otherwise having Beale at 13 to play the Gary Ella/Conrad Smith role of playmaker in a wider channel. Having Beale setting his wingers a fullback free from 13 excites me - as does having him play at first receiver on a wide blind with one or two of Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Crawford/Betham with him.
I am hoping that this year we see both Folau and Beale grow into roles where they can dominate for both NSW and the wallabies. I would certainly be interested in seeing how Kurtley went at 13.
1. I have always felt that Beale was going to end up somewhere other than 10 - not to say that he wasn't quite good as a 10, but his natural skillset is not suited to playing that close to the forwards at the top level. Beale is great at reading broken play, he is faster than he looks, he is very very good at getting outside a man, sucking in the next defender and setting his outside man free. At 10 this cramps his outside backs, at 15 his wingers are made to look like geniuses. I would prefer not to see him play 10 or 12, I think he is better suited further out. Foley and Horne had a nice combination last year and I would be inclined to keep that.
2. Folau did some wonderful things last season, but he is far from the finished article. His defence at 15 was nothig to get excited about and I would not be picking him over Beale at fullback for that reason alone. That said, I think a lot of that was inexperience and not onlywill he get better, he has the potential to be much better than Beale. The things he does unbelievably well is field the high ball and make yards in traffic. When he is fullback the opposition are afraid to kick and when he comes into the line he is unstoppable. That said, I have not seen the counterattacking skills from the back that he is credited with. When he fields a ball in the deep he still looks tentative to me - not sure whether to run or kick and not great at manipulating the defence to put one of his wingers away (which is Beale's greatest strength). No doubt he will get better at this also, but he is naturally a runner and a finisher, not a playmaker. Having Beale on the wing to direct the counterattack could be an option. Otherwise having Beale at 13 to play the Gary Ella/Conrad Smith role of playmaker in a wider channel. Having Beale setting his wingers a fullback free from 13 excites me - as does having him play at first receiver on a wide blind with one or two of Folau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Crawford/Betham with him.
I am hoping that this year we see both Folau and Beale grow into roles where they can dominate for both NSW and the wallabies. I would certainly be interested in seeing how Kurtley went at 13.
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