Waratahs 2013

[en_force_er]

If its true its actually the most troubling outcome for the Tahs - they have reportedly decided to keep Foley (despite strong views held by many that they should not) and yet he will snub them: a bizarre twist demonstrating, I think, how stuffed the management in Tahland is.

But if it is true and the two assistants are picked from the better Shute Shield coaches, it's a win in reconnecting with Sydney club rugby for sure.

 

[Lindommer]

If Axle goes to the Force, with a decent backs coach, and the Tahs end up with Cheika aren't we all better off?

 

[waratahjesus]

If their is an offer from the force, Tahs will release foley in a heartbeat. Guy is on a three year contract and they obviously don't want to pay him out, him leaving on his own takes care of that.

I still rate foley as a coach but a three year contract at the force without the pressure he would be under at the Tahs is probably the best outcome all round.

 

[en_force_er]

If their is an offer from the force, Tahs will release foley in a heartbeat. Guy is on a three year contract and they obviously don't want to pay him out, him leaving on his own takes care of that.

I still rate foley as a coach but a three year contract at the force without the pressure he would be under at the Tahs is probably the best outcome all round.

Between you, me, and the wall (and the Internet). If a Force coach can get them to finish a season 8th or higher on the ladder folks in WA will be reasonably happy.

That's a lot less pressure than being expected to make the final.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Apart from Cheika, the Waratahs might look at a coaching team of Sydney University mentor Todd Louden and Eastwood's John Manenti.

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Louden and Manenti - an intriguing prospect. It offers the chance for a real connection to grassroots Sydney rugby.​

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Todd Louden set up Sydney Uni's EDS program which since its implementation has led to the Club producing more professional rugby players than any other club in the world. He has been head coach of a Sydney club three times - in 2006 he took Randwick to a very close Grand Final loss to Uni; last year he coached Uni to an extra-time 3 point loss to Eastwood; and this year Uni sit in second place just two points behind Eastwood.​

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In 2007 he moved to South Africa as attack coach with the Blue Bulls, who went from fifth to winning the Super 14. They were the first South African team to win a Super title, with their success attributed to their new attacking style. In 2008, he was appointed attack coach of the Waratahs. The ‘Tahs went from thirteenth in 2007 to second before being beaten in the Grand Final.​

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John Manenti has the possibly unique distinction of having played over 150 games for both West Harbour and Sydney Uni. He has coached the Australian women's team, and last year coached Eastwood to a First Grade Premiership and this year to a lead in the competition. Thus he has very deep roots in Sydney club rugby.​

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The team of Louden and Manenti would be ideally suited to implement what should be a permanent policy for the Waratahs, namely to only recruit players who had been developed within New South Wales. Such an approach would very quickly begin to build what has been missing from the Waratahs throughout the professional era; that sense of tribalism that comes so naturally to those from the lesser states.​

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As for Michael Foley, if he thinks his coaching performance this year merits the security of a three-year contract and he can find a franchise dumb enough and so lacking in rugby savvy as to offer it to him, good luck to him. And that goes doubly for the player-power franchise that buys him - they're going to need plenty of luck.​

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[en_force_er]

As for Michael Foley, if he thinks his coaching performance this year merits the security of a three-year contract and he can find a franchise dumb enough and so lacking in rugby savvy as to offer it to him, good luck to him. And that goes doubly for the player-power franchise that buys him - they're going to need plenty of luck.​

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I agreed with everything else you wrote Bruce but perhaps not this, 1 year is a small sample size.

Plus, the force recruiting him is very savvy in my mind (he brings over a whole lot of eastern state connections).

 

[Bruce Ross]

I agreed with everything else you wrote Bruce but perhaps not this, 1 year is a small sample size.

Plus, the force recruiting him is very savvy in my mind (he brings over a whole lot of eastern state connections).

Let's agree to disagree about Foley, en_force_er, and in particular the savvyness of the good people at the Force.

Personally, I would add another name to the Louden-Manenti team. If you were starting from scratch with a brand new coaching team I would have Louden as Head Coach with Manenti and Brian 'Billy' Melrose working with him. Melrose was co-coach of West Harbour in 2001 and 2002; Head Coach of Manly 2003; Coaching Director of Manly 2004; attack and kicking coach at the Waratahs 2005 and 2006; Head Coach of the West Sydney Rams in the ARC 2007 (Minor Premiers); and Australian Under 20s Coach in 2008. In 2009 he coached Eastwood before moving to Ireland as backs coach with Connacht.

Louden-Manenti-Melrose would be a real Dream Team, each of whom appreciates the wealth of talent that comes through Sydney Club Rugby and realises the folly of buying rock star players to try to win a Super title.
.

 

[No4918]

Sounds to me like a 3rd tier of some sort in Aus rugby is needed. Development of coaches, refs and not to mention player depth. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

 

[Brumby Jack]

There was a bloke called Gary Flowers.....

 

[fatprop]

But if it is true and the two assistants are picked from the better Shute Shield coaches, it's a win in reconnecting with Sydney club rugby for sure.

wasn't that the approach with Hickey & Bowen?

I think the Tahs need a dominant personality leading/dragging the unit (coaching staff and players) in one simple, unified direction

 

[Lindommer]

Bruce, I'll still argue Foley's a good forwards coach. Let's hope that skill isn't lost to Australian rugby.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce, I'll still argue Foley's a good forwards coach. Let's hope that skill isn't lost to Australian rugby.

I don't have a personal opinion on that, Lindommer, but I've read nothing that suggests otherwise. What I do find a bit eyebrow-raising is that after getting to keep his job after a less than stellar season as Head Coach - not forwards coach - he apparently is intent on moving elsewhere and being offered a three-year contract to do so.

If I were Jason Allen - whom I assume actually exists - I would hand him two deeds of release; the second one in case he loses the first one.
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[Inside Shoulder]

If Axle goes to the Force, with a decent backs coach, and the Tahs end up with Cheika aren't we all better off?

There is logic in this theory.
The problem is that the fact that everyone wins from this outcome means that the decision to keep him was the wrong one. This means that for whatever reason(s) the Tahs do not get to choose their destiny they have it thrust it upon them.
Cheika/Louden or whoever would have to be a brave man: he will get no say in next year's playing staff since that is largely settled - maybe he can pick the marquee player; some of the people signed recently will be there for 3 years - who is to know if they will fit in?
Will Cheika/Louden get a grace period - say 1 season: Foley didnt.
Hardly confidence inspiring.

 

[Lindommer]

Will Cheika/Louden get a grace period - say 1 season: Foley didn't.

Not so, Axle was 2IC in Hickey's reign, he had a hand in signing every player who ran around for the Tahs this year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not so, Axle was 2IC in Hickey's reign, he had a hand in signing every player who ran around for the Tahs this year.

Well thats not a bad point.....

 

[Sandpit Fan]

Louden-Manenti-Melrose would be a real Dream Team, each of whom appreciates the wealth of talent that comes through Sydney Club Rugby and realises the folly of buying rock star players to try to win a Super title.
.

From an outsiders viewpoint, I think that's the most important sentence in the post. Three blokes who have an intimate knowledge of Shute Shield and the ability or otherwise of the guys playing over a long enough period to make reasoned judgements.

 

[Dave Beat]

Let's agree to disagree about Foley, en_force_er, and in particular the savvyness of the good people at the Force.

Personally, I would add another name to the Louden-Manenti team. If you were starting from scratch with a brand new coaching team I would have Louden as Head Coach with Manenti and Brian 'Billy' Melrose working with him. Melrose was co-coach of West Harbour in 2001 and 2002; Head Coach of Manly 2003; Coaching Director of Manly 2004; attack and kicking coach at the Waratahs 2005 and 2006; Head Coach of the West Sydney Rams in the ARC 2007 (Minor Premiers); and Australian Under 20s Coach in 2008. In 2009 he coached Eastwood before moving to Ireland as backs coach with Connacht.

Louden-Manenti-Melrose would be a real Dream Team, each of whom appreciates the wealth of talent that comes through Sydney Club Rugby and realises the folly of buying rock star players to try to win a Super title.
.

I hadn't thought of that connection, and approach, I like it.

 

[Dave Beat]

Why is it so many Hookers have gone on to coach:
Eddie Jones, McBain, Foley, Nucifora, I thought there was someone else????

 

[Braveheart81]

Why is it so many Hookers have gone on to coach:
Eddie Jones, McBain, Foley, Nucifora, I thought there was someone else????

They're the smartest people in the team.

The ones that aren't that smart become television commentators.

 

[boyo]

They're the smartest people in the team.

The ones that aren't that smart become television commentators.

Boom tish.