Waratahs 2013

[rugbyisfun]

The Gaffney/Bowen decision will be interesting . You can't have two backs coaches.

 

[Rob42]

Couple of thoughts

Cheika comes in without input to the squad - dunno how that is going to pan out, but there may be tears at the end of year one.

The Tahs still lack a clear 10 to take them forward. If Foley is the one, then he he better step up. I would be loading up the EPS with a few 10s just in case.

Is Barnes role as 15 or 12?

Do AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Horne role out in in the centres?

I think if you're going to break in a young 10, you're going to want Barnes at 12 to take some of the responsibility. So to fit in Horne, I guess you've got to play our best 13 at fullback.

 

[It is what it is]

That's true, but most observers would say that we got rid of the players we really needed to get rid of.

Many more changes at this point would be difficult mostly due to the lack of availability of decent options.

I'd be surprised if there were more than one or two players that Cheika really didn't want in the franchise who are expensive enough or senior enough to worry about. By that I mean if he didn't want Matt Lucas for example, big deal. He's in the EPS and at this point is unlikely to get on the field.

Here's what will happen.
Cheika will have a particular style of rugby he'll want to play.
He'll review each player's physical capability and mental capacity to play that particular style of rugby.
As Cheika needs to work with what he's got, the 2013 style will not be representative of 2014-15 efforts, because reality says you still have to win games now. They might win ugly for a while, but he will get them to perform.
The playing roster will soon start to look very different if existing players won't/can't play his preferred style of rugby.
Players will play his style, he doesn't work a style into their limitations.

 

[Rob42]

The Gaffney/Bowen decision will be interesting . You can't have two backs coaches.

Glad Cheika made that clear. It would have to be Gaffney, wouldn't it?

 

[qwerty51]

I'd prefer both (gone)

 

[Braveheart81]

Potential backlines could be.

9. McKibbin/Hart
10. Foley
11. Mitchell
12. Carter/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Horne
14. Turner
15. Barnes

A centre pairing of Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) could also be worth trying.

 

[Hawko]

I'd prefer both (gone)

At first thought I'd agree but there was so much gossip about Gaffney being blindsided by Foley/Bowen that maybe the god-awful back play was not down to Gaffney. Bowen on the other hand, has to go. He has been backs coach for 2-3 years now and has presided over the worst back skills I have ever seen in a Waratah team and I first started watching them in the mid-60's. There were some really bad years among the good years too.

 

[qwerty51]

I reckon Kingston would go alright at 12 if he bulks up, awesome footwork.

 

[It is what it is]

I reckon Kingston would go alright at 12 if he bulks up, awesome footwork.

Could be a worthwhile 2-3 yr project, but otherwise very tough for a winger learning defence as a centre 'on the run' at this level.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I reckon Kingston would go alright at 12 if he bulks up, awesome footwork.

Has he ever played there?
I like the cut of his jib...but I liked Turner too and he seems to have stalled.
T'would be great if these guys all just reached their potential in the new environment.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Has he ever played there?
I like the cut of his jib.but I liked Turner too and he seems to have stalled.
T'would be great if these guys all just reached their potential in the new environment.

Played 13 at school. Will he ever bulk up?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

At first thought I'd agree but there was so much gossip about Gaffney being blindsided by Foley/Bowen that maybe the god-awful back play was not down to Gaffney. Bowen on the other hand, has to go. He has been backs coach for 2-3 years now and has presided over the worst back skills I have ever seen in a Waratah team and I first started watching them in the mid-60's. There were some really bad years among the good years too.

God awful back play often has its root cause in god awful forward play. If the piggies get good ball, it is so much easier for the princesses to look much better than they actually may be. If the piggies don't perform, then the princesses can look very very poor.

 

[sudrugby]

I believe it is a good choice to pick Michael Cheika but he must have most of the power to recruit new players and a strong support during the first year to set up his strategy.
When he arrived in Paris, the team was close to bankrupcy and he the president was chosing himself the players to hire. Same stuff for the staff.

 

[Lee Grant]

The trouble is that 29 of the Tahs 30 contracted players for 2013 have been chosen already.

MC will have some say in the make up of the 2013 5 man EPS, which is renewed annually but he won't be able to call the Tahs his own team until existing contracts expire.

He will have some influence on the 2014 team when he can chose to replace players whose contacts end in 2013 but the full effect of his squad selections won't be felt until 2015.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

2013 HSBC WARATAHS SQUAD

1 Adam Ashley-Cooper (Northern Suburbs)
2 Ollie Atkins (Sydney University)*
3 Berrick Barnes (Sydney University)
4 Peter Betham (Sydney University)*
5 Tom Carter (Sydney University)
6 Cam Crawford (Northern Suburbs)*
7 Dave Dennis (Sydney University)
8 Kane Douglas (Southern Districts)
9 Damien Fitzpatrick (Eastwood)
10 Bernard Foley (Sydney University)
11 Grayson Hart (Southern Districts)*
12 Michael Hodge (Sydney University)*
13 Michael Hooper (Manly) *
14 Rob Horne (Southern Districts)
15 Sekope Kepu (Randwick)
16 Tom Kingston (Sydney University)
17 Pat McCutcheon (Sydney University)
18 Brendan McKibbin (Eastern Suburbs)
19 Drew Mitchell (Balmain)
20 Wycliff Palu (Manly)
21 Greg Peterson (Manly)
22 Tatafu Polota-Nau (Parramatta)
23 Benn Robinson (Eastwood)
24 Paddy Ryan (Sydney University)
25 Jeremy Tilse (Sydney University)
26 Lopeti Timani (Southern Districts)*
27 Sitaleki Timani (Southern Districts)
28 Lachie Turner (Eastwood)
29 John Ulugia (Southern Districts)
30 TBC

In
Ollie Atkins – Sydney University
Cam Crawford – Brumbies
Michael Hodge – Sydney University
Michael Hooper - Brumbies
Peter Betham – Sydney University
Grayson Hart – Extended Playing Squad
Lopeti Timani - Extended Playing Squad

Out
Chris Alcock – Western Force
Rocky Elsom – N/A
Brackin Karauria-Henry – NTT Docomo, Japan
Daniel Halangahu – Zebre, Italy
Dean Mumm – Exeter Chiefs, England
Sarel Pretorius – Cheetahs, South Africa
Dan Vickerman – retired

*New additions to the 2013 HSBC Waratahs 30-man squad
.

 

[Lee Grant]

Here's the contracted players broken down into positions - no need to be too thingy about the exact positions of the players because injuries make a mockery of nice categorisations - it's just to see the profile of the squad.

Props
1. Benn Robinson
3/1 Sekope Kepu
3/1 Paddy Ryan
1/3 Jeremy Tilse

Hookers
Tatafu Polota-Nau
Damien Fitzpatrick
John Ulugia (also LHP)

Locks
Sitaleki Timani
Kane Douglas
Greg Peterson
Ollie Atkins

Backrow
6. Dave Dennis
7. Pat McCutcheon
7. Michael Hooper
8. Wycliff Palu
8/6.Lopeti Timani

Scrummies
Brendan McKibbin
Grayson Hart

Flyhalves
Berrick Barnes (also 12/15)
Bernard Foley (also fullback)

Centres
Tom Carter
Adam Ashley-Cooper (also fullback/wing)
Rob Horne

Wingers
Drew Mitchell
Lachie Turner (also fullback)
Tom Kingston (also centre)
Michael Hodge
Peter Betham (also fullback)

Fullbacks
Cam Crawford (also wing)

The rumours about Rocky coming back may make sense because they need another 6, but crickey, he'd have to have a squeaky clean medical certificate. That would make a 17/13 split.

In the EPS they need a scrummie (rumoured to be Matt Lucas) and a flyhalf (rumoured to be Sam Lane, but I wouldn't mind Angus Roberts - there is a whiff of Bernard Foley about him - nor Rohan Saifoloi). Jed Hollaway is being mentioned as a forward candidate. He is only 19 but was one of the few Aussies to shine in the Oz U/20 team this year and was the 2012 Shute Shield Rookie of the Year. Can cover 6, 8 or lock but the main thing will be to expose him to the pro environment.

I think Drew Mitchell is the only left footed kicker in that back line and there is no long kicker; but never mind: that won't stop any of them becoming Wallabies if they are otherwise good enough.

The backs lack X-factor but the main thing is A-factor - a willingness to attack, if there is a plan to do so.
.

 

[Hawko]

God awful back play often has its root cause in god awful forward play. If the piggies get good ball, it is so much easier for the princesses to look much better than they actually may be. If the piggies don't perform, then the princesses can look very very poor.

It doesn't have to be that way. Randwick in the late 70's and early 80's won premierships aplenty with possession stats over the whole season of 40% or less. It helped that they had three Ellas and a Walker but they did then what today would be considered miraculous. Going back further, Catchpole and Hipwell could both turn retreating packs and scabby ball into miracle tries. Everything depends on the quality of your backs. Today we have the consumate skills of Genia, Cooper, Ioane, JO'C, Tapuai, Mitchell and Beale. Properly trained, that group could win games with the pack going backwards all day. Unfortunately the coaching skills have been lost.

When someone discovers how to bring the dead back to life the first name on the list should be Cyril Towers!

 

[waratahjesus]

Surely defense since the early 80s has improved so much and these days against top teams provides so little space that even the famed randwick sides would have trouble behind a beaten pack.

 

[Hawko]

The backs lack X-factor but the main thing is A-factor - a willingness to attack, if there is a plan to do so.

Cheika used the A word (in the press conference I think, or maybe the press release). I mentally had to jump and make sure I was hearing correctly. Its a word that has almost disappeared from the rugby lexicon. That mindset that has attack as its first thought is how Waratah rugby at its best used to be played. How Barnes will cope with the concept I do not know - he seems to want to give the ball away on every possible occasion.

I so liked the way the word was used I took special notice and to be truthful my heart lifted just a tad. Could it be that we would play a game plan that was active rather than reactive? Hope can be the best of things, but I've hoped in vain before. But in truth the Waratahs need most of all to change their mindset - that was the primary problem last year.

 

[latrell247]

Who will get the last remaining spot in the tahs squad? Also who do you think will earn EPS contracts for 2013?