Waratahs 2013

[Dave Beat]

You don't win the comp in the first game.
Reds first 2 tries were scored on creative / attacking NSW errors.
On a number of occasions last night I thought here we go a kick, but we throw passes and looked to play ball in hand.
As the season progresses balls will stick, and players will back up running good lines.
Izzy has talent to make it, but not the natural instinct / knowledge that you only get playing. Either run on with the Tah's or run on with Uni - he won't learn it sitting on the bench. Barnes at 15.
Foley surprised me, a good surprise.
Volavola when he came on created doubt and openings out wide.
Chapman or Timani, I think it should be Douglas or Timani with Chapman playing 80 min.
Barnes will provide another goal kicker.
Tummy Carter, was just solid, nothing great, nothing terrible - just solid.

Once a few more of those passes start sticking!!!!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You don't win the comp in the first game.
Reds first 2 tries were scored on creative / attacking NSW errors.
On a number of occasions last night I thought here we go a kick, but we throw passes and looked to play ball in hand.
As the season progresses balls will stick, and players will back up running good lines.
Izzy has talent to make it, but not the natural instinct / knowledge that you only get playing. Either run on with the Tah's or run on with Uni - he won't learn it sitting on the bench. Barnes at 15.
Foley surprised me.
Volavola when he came on created doubt and openings out wide.
Chapman or Timani, I think it should be Douglas or Timani with Chapman playing 80 min.
Barnes will provide another goal kicker.

Once a few more of those passes start sticking!!!!

What worried me about this, supposedly, more positive attitude is best summed up by Kefu passing from a virtual sitting position (in the sense that I think he was closer to lying down than sitting up or standing) with his back to the opposition (for Reds try #1 - I think).
If this is the result of an urge to play positively then the message has been misunderstood, IMHO. I cant really see this example as an issue of rustiness: i dont think I will be any more forgiving when he tries that in round 8 and the pass actually goes to hand.

 

[Dave Beat]

What worried me about this, supposedly, more positive attitude is best summed up by Kefu passing from a virtual sitting position (in the sense that I think he was closer to lying down than sitting up or standing) with his back to the opposition (for Reds try #1 - I think).
If this is the result of an urge to play positively then the message has been misunderstood, IMHO. I cant really see this example as an issue of rustiness: i dont think I will be any more forgiving when he tries that in round 8 and the pass actually goes to hand.

Last year we would have kicked for the corner McKibben would have kicked for the corner and not even looked to attack.
Keppu threw a silly pass whilst on his back, a pass that shouldn't have been thrown.
My point being I liked the fact we were looking to play ball in hand rather than ball on foot, the more we do that the better success we will have.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Last year we would have kicked for the corner McKibben would have kicked for the corner and not even looked to attack.
Keppu threw a silly pass whilst on his back, a pass that shouldn't have been thrown.
My point being I liked the fact we were looking to play ball in hand rather than ball on foot, the more we do that the better success we will have.

What about the carter grubber when he was at first receiver from a turnover in their half (or very nearly)?
Another confused response to this positive message.
I'll give Cheika the benefit of the doubt and say that the problem with playing positively may lie in the fact that some of these blokes are just not that good.

 

[Dave Beat]

What about the carter grubber when he was at first receiver from a turnover in their half (or very nearly)?
Another confused response to this positive message.
I'll give Cheika the benefit of the doubt and say that the problem with playing positively may lie in the fact that some of these blokes are just not that good.

IS fair crack of the whip please.
He's spent years studying this at Uni, and Izzy's now going to Uni as well.
I'm not making any judgement after one game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS fair crack of the whip please.
He's spent years studying this at Uni, and Izzy's now going to Uni as well.
I'm not making any judgement after one game.

You're right.
When does Uni go back? Not soon enough.
Basics of Turnover Ball, course devised by Professor Christian Cullen and Senior Lecturer Israel Dagg

 

[Dave Beat]

You're right.
When does Uni go back? Not soon enough.
Basics of Turnover Ball, course devised by Professor Christian Cullen and Senior Lecturer Israel Dagg

IS, just not making my judgement after one game that's all, look at McQueens first tour to Argentina.
I saw enough to see there has been a change, old habits are hard to break - it takes longer than one game. I'm not a Tummy fan because I have never seen variety, whether that is the coaches game plan, or the player??? - I'm giving Tummy the benefit of the doubt this season.

 

[I like to watch]

Last year we would have kicked for the corner McKibben would have kicked for the corner and not even looked to attack.
Keppu threw a silly pass whilst on his back, a pass that shouldn't have been thrown.
My point being I liked the fact we were looking to play ball in hand rather than ball on foot, the more we do that the better success we will have.

Dave,if the Tahs had kicked to the corners all year.They would have won 3 or 4 more games,and people would not have been so shitty with them.Instead they just fucking kicked,sometimes just to see how much the counter attack might hurt them.

 

[I like to watch]

What about the carter grubber when he was at first receiver from a turnover in their half (or very nearly)?
Another confused response to this positive message.
I'll give Cheika the benefit of the doubt and say that the problem with playing positively may lie in the fact that some of these blokes are just not that good.

Closer to the rabbit in the spotlight response.He had plenty of support,he just didn't know how to get it to them.

 

[Orange Peeler]

That's the problem, as the game wore on the Tahs went back into old habits - No idea.
I cant wait for this new game style to come into practice.

 

[p.Tah]

There have been 3,586 comments so far in the Waratahs 2013 thread and we're only one game into the season! It was a long preseason.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think we need to remember that many of these guys have been poorly coached for the past 4 years under Hickey/Foley (remember win ugly?) and if they're Wallabies they've had RD performing his special brand of magic.

The Tom Carter grubber and some of the kicks put in by Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) in the Rebels match show that many of our current backline players have little idea when to kick and what type of kick to put in.

In the past 2 weeks, I've seen a number of Wallaby/fringe Wallaby backs execute mid-field grubbers, chip kicks, cross kicks to wingers who weren't expecting it, box kicks which either go straight up in the air or go so far down-field that the opposition just run the ball back. Old habits die hard.

Carter has spent many years being used by the Waratahs and Uni as the crash ball option at 12, so it's hardly surprising that when he gets the ball in a pressure situation with Folau & Volavola outside he goes into contact and takes the tackle. If you pick him at 12 that is what you are going to get.

Even with the rustiness and errors, it was a match the Waratahs were in a position to win. The had 5 on 2 a few metres out from the Reds line and mucked it up. We had all the momentum at that point and a Waratahs try would have maintained that momentum.

As it was the last Reds try should never have been scored - Carter in possession with Folau and Volavola outside, he takes the tackle, Folau not strong enough over the ball, Volavola not in there at all, Reds arrive in numbers well before the Waratahs, turnover, numerous missed tackles and game over. No one player responsible - they all did their little bit to concede the try.

Have faith my friends, I can see light at the end of the tunnel. It was never going to be a quick fix, but it's being fixed.

 

[wamberal]

I admire your optimism. Perhaps the problem with our kicking is that, in general, we do not value kicking out of hand as a skill, at any level of the game. I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame Deans, Hickey, et al, for the fact that our best players are just not capable of kicking intelligently.

As for Carter, perhaps he might have learned a bit about centre play if he had gone to play for a club that actually runs the ball, instead of the quasi-professionals at Camperdown.

 

[Dave Beat]

There was change last night, the light is now a flicker.

 

[Quick Hands]

Perhaps the problem with our kicking is that, in general, we do not value kicking out of hand as a skill, at any level of the game. I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame Deans, Hickey, et al, for the fact that our best players are just not capable of kicking intelligently.

They may not be entirely to blame, but I can't recall such non-sensical kicking before about 5 years ago, which roughly co-incides with Hickey/Deans et al. In the past we've had magnificent kickers of the ball such as Lynagh and Gould, and while they might not be remembered for it players like Mark Ella and David Campese knew when and how to kick a ball.

It may well be that insufficient emphasis is given to it during the player development phase.

 

[Bessa]

Any one know of the condition of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)? The presser after the game with Cheika made it sound pretty serious.

 

[No4918]

A few here said he copped a knee on the way down which would have done more damage than Harris's initial hit.

 

[Bessa]

Yeah I know, I saw it happen. I wasn't questioning the incident, I'm just seeing if anyone knows if he was ok.

 

[barbarian]

He's been cleared of a fracture, still touch and go for this weekend.

 

[Ash]

Bit disappointed with Cheika's whine in the post match conference. Can understand the frustration, but the extent of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s injury has nothing to do with if Harris should get suspended, if not for the simple fact that Harris didn't cause it - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was unlucky enough to get hit by his own player. And, Chieka knew full well that was the case.

Coaches publicly placing pressure on citing guys is generally bad form.