Waratahs 2013

[tranquility]

He would know all that though.

Maybe he just wants to play club rugby and aim for a different opportunity.

 

[Quick Hands]

Its the technical understanding of the game which is the issue and where a lot of people hold doubts, especially at test level where one small indiscretion like not rolling away from the ball and been yellow carded will cost the team the game.

As I understand it, in the rebels game he just happened to be the guy who infringed after the referee warned the team. This would indicate that at least some of the rugby experts in the team were also penalised for the same thing.

 

[Pedrolicus]

Surprised at Dennis being captain, but I suppose the Tahs might have been when Mowen was for the brumbies.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

In regards to the Sam Lane issue, I wouldn't release him I was the Waratahs.

Clearly the guy needs to be eased back in and maybe the Tahs should reach an agreement with him whereby they ease him back into rugby through things like the 7s that he wants to play.

Realistically he is a talented young player who is a member of the EPS, not a fully contracted player. The Tahs should definitely be keen to keep him for more than just 2013 otherwise what was the point in signing him in the first place?

I don't see how it does Lane or the Waratahs any favours to release him from his contract. Working out a mutually agreeable return to rugby should be the solution.

Just quietly - I think he may have lost his nerve.

 

[Braveheart81]

Just quietly - I think he may have lost his nerve.

Possibly, but surely Cheika must think it can be recaptured.

They knew when they signed him that he wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season and would need to play some rugby somewhere before he came back to Super Rugby.

I don't see how anything could have changed. Lane might not have the confidence but unless he wants to give rugby away, it surely isn't in the Waratahs favour to let him go. The situation may change if the Tahs have an injury crisis but for now it should be business as usual.

If Lanes goes and plays some 7s and some club rugby and is potentially available for Super Rugby in the last third of the season it is surely a good outcome for everyone.

 

[qwerty51]

Rob Horne went the whole last Super rugby season uninjured, didn't even miss a minute excluding the yellow and suspension. Same with the Wallabies and only did a hammy in club rugby

From limited coverage it looks like Volavola was the starting 10 in the trial against the Rebels. I think he's fine as the 3rd flyhalf. Very different player to when he was the u20s 10. His form for Souths was excellent

 

[Hawko]

Possibly, but surely Cheika must think it can be recaptured.

They knew when they signed him that he wasn't going to be ready for the start of the season and would need to play some rugby somewhere before he came back to Super Rugby.

I don't see how anything could have changed. Lane might not have the confidence but unless he wants to give rugby away, it surely isn't in the Waratahs favour to let him go. The situation may change if the Tahs have an injury crisis but for now it should be business as usual.

If Lanes goes and plays some 7s and some club rugby and is potentially available for Super Rugby in the last third of the season it is surely a good outcome for everyone.

Its a team balance issue. We have one out and out 10 - Foley - and one player who has played 10 at this level before - Barnes - but is probably more suited to 12/15. We then have Lane and Volavola in the EPS, though Volavola is probably more suited to 12/15. If either Barnes or Foley are injured (God help us if both go down concurrently) then Lane or Volavola have to go to the bench in case there is another match-day injury. Volavola did not play 10 last year at all and if Lane cannot step up now then we will have to get very creative. Mitchell? McKibben? Hooper? Lucas? Kingston? Maybe Izzy is the saviour?

The chickens are now coming home to roost. A squad of 30 players has to have two players for each position who primarily play that position with 5 in the EPS development squad to cover for specialists: hooker, prop, halfback, five-eighth and one other. We have got one specialist five-eighth, one in the EPS but he wants out, plus two in 12/15 who can play five-eighth at a pinch. We've got a gazillion outside backs, arguably the easiest positions to cover by draftees from Shute.

Meanwhile, the two best 10's from Shute, Angus and Saifoloi seem to have bubonic plague and no one wants them. Sorry if I've become a broken record, but this latest Lane issue is the last straw!

 

[RoffsChoice]

I hope Dennis can be for the Tahs what Mowen became for the Brumbies. Very doubtful though.

 

[qwerty51]

I hope Dennis can be for the Tahs what Mowen became for the Brumbies. Very doubtful though.

Why is that?

 

[barbarian]

And what did Mowen become for the Brumbies? He was a decent enough captain, sure, but I would put their season down far more to their coaching staff than any on-field leadership.

 

[Quick Hands]

Its a team balance issue.
The chickens are now coming home to roost. A squad of 30 players has to have two players for each position who primarily play that position with 5 in the EPS development squad to cover for specialists: hooker, prop, halfback, five-eighth and one other. We have got one specialist five-eighth, one in the EPS but he wants out, plus two in 12/15 who can play five-eighth at a pinch. We've got a gazillion outside backs, arguably the easiest positions to cover by draftees from Shute.

Meanwhile, the two best 10's from Shute, Angus and Saifoloi seem to have bubonic plague and no one wants them. Sorry if I've become a broken record, but this latest Lane issue is the last straw!

I've been saying the same thing for years as well. So your not alone in sounding like a broken record.

People aren't making the distinction between the development or academy phase where you try to multi-skill, so that you can cover situations that arise within a match or after multiple injuries, with picking teams or squads where you need specialists.

You have to have guys playing positions who can slot in, so for example if 5/8 is injured, no2 5/8 comes in and the rest of the backline remains unchanged. No2 5/8 might not be as good as the first choice, but he can run a game and the other 6 backs around him give him confidence. Because he's used to playing that position the situation usually works better than the re-shuffle.

Now I'm sounding like a broken record, so I'll stop.

 

[Braveheart81]

Its a team balance issue. We have one out and out 10 - Foley - and one player who has played 10 at this level before - Barnes - but is probably more suited to 12/15. We then have Lane and Volavola in the EPS, though Volavola is probably more suited to 12/15. If either Barnes or Foley are injured (God help us if both go down concurrently) then Lane or Volavola have to go to the bench in case there is another match-day injury. Volavola did not play 10 last year at all and if Lane cannot step up now then we will have to get very creative. Mitchell? McKibben? Hooper? Lucas? Kingston? Maybe Izzy is the saviour?

The chickens are now coming home to roost. A squad of 30 players has to have two players for each position who primarily play that position with 5 in the EPS development squad to cover for specialists: hooker, prop, halfback, five-eighth and one other. We have got one specialist five-eighth, one in the EPS but he wants out, plus two in 12/15 who can play five-eighth at a pinch. We've got a gazillion outside backs, arguably the easiest positions to cover by draftees from Shute.

Meanwhile, the two best 10's from Shute, Angus and Saifoloi seem to have bubonic plague and no one wants them. Sorry if I've become a broken record, but this latest Lane issue is the last straw!

Then the signing of Lane was an error to begin with. It was always known that he was on the comeback from injury.

If Foley is the first choice 10 then Barnes is an excellent back up 10. Barnes' best position may be 12 or 15 but the reality is he has a ton of experience at 10 as well.

I just think releasing Lane now is a poor decision if they thought he was a good player to sign in the first place.

I think the chickens coming home to roost comment is massive hyperbole.

 

[Braveheart81]

I've been saying the same thing for years as well. So your not alone in sounding like a broken record.

People aren't making the distinction between the development or academy phase where you try to multi-skill, so that you can cover situations that arise within a match or after multiple injuries, with picking teams or squads where you need specialists.

You have to have guys playing positions who can slot in, so for example if 5/8 is injured, no2 5/8 comes in and the rest of the backline remains unchanged. No2 5/8 might not be as good as the first choice, but he can run a game and the other 6 backs around him give him confidence. Because he's used to playing that position the situation usually works better than the re-shuffle.

Now I'm sounding like a broken record, so I'll stop.

When you have versatile players who've played test rugby and potentially a Wallaby back languishing on the bench then I definitely think a reshuffle is a better option than bringing in a backup. Particularly one with no experience and/or on the comeback from a serious injury.

The slotting the backup player into that position and leaving everyone else unchanged is a club rugby decision where everyone gets to play every week regardless. When you are restricted to a limited squad and are forced to leave out quality players then you should be picking your best side each week. The best side might not involve everyone playing in the same position always.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't see how anything could have changed. Lane might not have the confidence but unless he wants to give rugby away, it surely isn't in the Waratahs favour to let him go. The situation may change if the Tahs have an injury crisis but for now it should be business as usual.

I can understand it - Karma: give the guy a break let him find his feet and bring him back. There's not a lot of point keeping him around.
If he does get his mojo back he will be rusted on for life!

 

[Quick Hands]

The best side might not involve everyone playing in the same position always.

Correct, but it should be your first option. Stability, understanding and combinations are critical. Where the reshufffle is the first option, a string of injuries means that after a few weeks players can be almost constantly changing positions and combinations, which invariably leads to a degree of confusion and misunderstanding.

There's no 100% option in rugby and it would be ridiculous to say every time a player is injured, we'll bring in the next player in that position even if he's the 6th best. Common sense and squad limitations make it impossible.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Why is that?

He's a good 6 and a passable 8/lock and I don't think anyone in the Tahs could take the 6 from him. However, his decision making and skill in the lineout need some development. But I hope the extra pressure of being the captain will improve his game, like it did Pocock, and not turn him into another Dean Mumm.

 

[RoffsChoice]

And what did Mowen become for the Brumbies? He was a decent enough captain, sure, but I would put their season down far more to their coaching staff than any on-field leadership.

I agree that it was mostly down to coaching, but Mowen helped that along. He was a conduit between White and the team and helped to ingrain the culture that White was trying to implement.

 

[mjw]

I hope Dennis can be for the Tahs what Mowen became for the Brumbies. Very doubtful though.

Let's see. Dennis is a Wallabies regular. Mowen isn't.

 

[qwerty51]

He's a good 6 and a passable 8/lock and I don't think anyone in the Tahs could take the 6 from him. However, his decision making and skill in the lineout need some development

I'm pretty baffled by that, Dennis is an excellent lineout option and it has been reported he will call the lineouts. I see no issue there for him.

 

[Slim 293]

Let's see. Dennis is a Wallabies regular. Mowen isn't.

That seems pretty irrelevant to what roffschoice said.........