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Waratahs 2012

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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I'd give the captaincy to Mitchell and play him fullback. He was skipper of a number of Jnr QLD teams and I think can handle the position on the field. I also think his handling of the Waratah fan forum was fantastic and showed real leadership. I also holds high standards for his team. I think it could really make him as a player, and take him to a new level. Now he's removed from the pack, and that may be a big ask for Foles, but the pack will have natural leaders in TPN (my vice skipper suggestion), Vicks, Robinson, Mumm and Palu. So Drew will have plenty of support on the field, (with Barnes controlling play well from 10 or 12) but I think he is best positioned to handle the off field stuff. TPN is the only one who can come close to that aspect, but he won't play full games/full season.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
I mean that with a Uni dominated pack and halves the Tahs have played a Uni game plan which works against Shute sides but too often against Super packs the pigs can only get parity at best. They do not attack in depth, or as has been discussed realign fast enough. This is a chance to break away and have as much of a clean start as possible. If I was being provincial I would have thought up a Wicks player to be Cpt.

I thought the coach was the problem? Is it the players now? Besides, the Uni "dominance" extended to Mumm, Waugh and Dennis this year, with Waugh often out. There were often as many from Eastwood or Randwick.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Uni pack thinking with Randwick backline thinking, then merging the two together is the unstoppable force. I'm salivating right now, any more of this and I'll be dribbling uncontrollably.

There are exercises to help that.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
I'd give the captaincy to Mitchell and play him fullback. He was skipper of a number of Jnr QLD teams and I think can handle the position on the field. I also think his handling of the Waratah fan forum was fantastic and showed real leadership. I also holds high standards for his team. I think it could really make him as a player, and take him to a new level. Now he's removed from the pack, and that may be a big ask for Foles, but the pack will have natural leaders in TPN (my vice skipper suggestion), Vicks, Robinson, Mumm and Palu. So Drew will have plenty of support on the field, (with Barnes controlling play well from 10 or 12) but I think he is best positioned to handle the off field stuff. TPN is the only one who can come close to that aspect, but he won't play full games/full season.

Good post, RR. Seems like a crazy idea but your reasoning makes good sense.
 

Nusadan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Re Mitchell as a captain: a comparision can be made with Horwill and the Wallabies...it entered my mind before reading the above.
 
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Tireless Backrower

Guest
You cant have a captain on the wing or at fullback - its just a recipe for giving up penalties for backchat as someone other than the captain has to put pressure on the ref by asking questions...Kaplan would have a field day.
I cannot believe the high regard in which Mumm seems to be held by the knowledgeable on this site: i reckon he's overrated to the max. Seems like a nice guy though.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
You cant have a captain on the wing or at fullback - its just a recipe for giving up penalties for backchat as someone other than the captain has to put pressure on the ref by asking questions...Kaplan would have a field day.
I cannot believe the high regard in which Mumm seems to be held by the knowledgeable on this site: i reckon he's overrated to the max. Seems like a nice guy though.

eh?
 
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TheNextBigThing

Guest
I'd give the captaincy to Mitchell and play him fullback. He was skipper of a number of Jnr QLD teams and I think can handle the position on the field. I also think his handling of the Waratah fan forum was fantastic and showed real leadership. I also holds high standards for his team. I think it could really make him as a player, and take him to a new level. Now he's removed from the pack, and that may be a big ask for Foles, but the pack will have natural leaders in TPN (my vice skipper suggestion), Vicks, Robinson, Mumm and Palu. So Drew will have plenty of support on the field, (with Barnes controlling play well from 10 or 12) but I think he is best positioned to handle the off field stuff. TPN is the only one who can come close to that aspect, but he won't play full games/full season.


A lot of this is nail on the head. The reason Mumm has persisted as stand-in captain, and is likely to be captain in the future is that the other senior members of the leadership group are Turner and Mitchell who are a mile from the action.

Tireless backrower said it well that the captain should traditionally be in the thick of it. I'd propose that with the current roster/history though that Mitchell or Turner should be captain.
 
T

Tireless Backrower

Guest
My vote would be Vickerman, I'd prefer TPN but only if he decides to play most of the games.

Well theyve tried every other means of appointing a captain so why not put it to the popular vote? Seriously.
 
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TheNextBigThing

Guest
The issue with vicks is that he's barely been in the team. I think the players (and coaches) would want him to have at least one campaign up his sleeve before adding an armband to it.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
TC plays a role, and did it damn well this year.

Of course he does. However, I imagine when Gaffney is describing his ideal 12, he would identify someone with a bit more pace and spark. The interesting thing is how Gaffney will play TC and whether he'll get more out of him.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I am very pleased that Michael Foley got the gig as coach. It was a bit rough on Hickey given that he was the most successful coach the Tahs have had statistically, and by some margin. In 2011 key injuries to players like Palu, Horne, Mitchell, Barnes, leader Waugh, and even TPN at the critical point, did not help his cause, but IMO if there are good candidates available and you haven't won the thing yet, or shown at the end of 3 years that your team is on an irresistible rise, a new fellow may as well be signed up.

Acquiring Gaffney is a coup. His days of being a head coach are long gone, but he will be of invaluable help to Foley settling in and to bounce ideas off. It will make no sense unless Gaff is also the backs attack coach as I don't want Bowen involved in that discipline of the game at all. I have mentioned wanting Gaff as the Tahs back coach many a time, and not just this year. I feel better at the minute at his appointment than at Foley getting his gig: those old Randwick moves will still work, and he will have a bigger play book now.


Foley should also appoint Vickerman as lineout and restarts coach. This may seem a silly idea but nobody who has seen him at Tahs training bossing lineout sessions in past years would dissent. To those who object that a current player should not act in such a capacity: they don't know the gravitas he has with team mates.

Hiring Foley is a good step for Oz rugby also. He will become a Wallaby coach candidate if he is successful at the Tahs, since he has Oz coaching credentials already. It is to early to say that the baton will be passed from Deans to Link to Foley, but it reads well in my eyes right now.


As for the Tahs captain: it's a puzzle supposing that Mumm is unsure of a regular starting position each week. Timani is on the rise and maybe back early in an extended season, Douglas will hopefully step up, and Vickerman should be able to prove himself if they picked him in the RWC. Not much joy there and he will not be a better 6 than Dennis on late season form, albeit at 8 sometimes.

The captain should be a forward unless there is more compelling evidence than is offered for Mitchell. The only back I would consider is Barnes.

But there may be one more candidate. Foley is said to be close to Elsom and it is also said that he will get him back into the Tahs now that he has been appointed. Unlike others I don't think Elsom is a crap player and especially not at the Super level. I thought he was a bit silent as the Wobs captain, but he gave ref B. Lawrence a bit of an ear bashing in Durban. Good signs.
.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'm quite excited about the potential of Bernard Foley next season. I think his play is developing very quickly. I definitely think he should be preferred to Halangahu by the start of the season.

In regards to Dean Mumm, he had an excellent Spring Tour a couple of years ago where he led the midweek Wallaby team. His play has gone downhill ever since. When everyone is fit, he should struggle to make the Tahs starting XV.

I think Barnes is the most logical captain in my book. Maybe Dave Dennis could emerge into that role in another season or so. I think Drew Mitchell would be an excellent candidate if he didn't play in the back three.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Dennis will be battling Mumm for that 6 spot. Vicks, Tamani and Douglas will pushing for locking positions forcing Mumm to the side of the scrum. That doesn't include the possibility of Rocky signing of course.

I tip Kane Douglas to hit the ground running next year and he will be a beast. This year was just second year syndrome.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I hope Kane Douglas comes back and has a massive year in 2012. I thought he was superb in 2010 but he didn't progress in 2011.

I thought Timani was going to Japan. Has that changed? I'd be so happy if he stays with the Tahs. He could lose the rats tail though. I was surprised Phil Waugh allowed it to be honest.
 
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