Waratahs 2012

[barbarian]

All these things are the responsibility of the coach!
The only other thing that the coach is responsible for is tactics!
So in simple terms you must be saying ......?
Hardly multi faceted!

Well enthusiasm and passion are the responsibility of everyone, not just the coach. At the end of the day the players need to find it from somewhere, you'd think it should come naturally but obviously not. Looking at the Reds they feed off a few key players, the coach and the crowd.

And the notion that everything with recruitment, selection, passion and enthusiasm all comes down to the coach is pretty short sighted. If that was the case you would have seen a noticeable difference in 2012 compared to 2011- not so. Certainly the coach players a key role but there are many more failings at organisational level which need to be sorted as well.
.

 

[Gnostic]

I raised most of the issues raised lately last year. They are nothing new. However I have found it interesting that in so many facets of life we only see change after Crisis because of a range of issues including vested interests, lack of critical review just to name two. What is also apparent is that some of those who call for change prior to crisis point become radical for want of a better term as their calls and evidence are wilfully ignored or dismissed out of hand. The fact that such radicals become more and more vociferous add the crisis builds is a driver for the . I have always attempted to avoid radicalism as such views cloud the issues and limit solutions. Radicals as I term them are a symptom of the malaise. Booing is a symptom. They cannot and should not be dismissed as small sections or irrelevant or derided as individuals lest this push the reaction further.
As for the effects on the individuals there is no doubt and calls to garden up etc.are short sighted and lack understanding of individual emotional reactions. Make no mistake I have little sympathy for the Tahs plight but I also understand that the problems don't stem from just the players, but systemic issues which cause their performance.

 

[wamberal]

Gnostic,

The simple fact is that we now have five franchises. Obviously the two newer franchises have some inbuilt disadvantages, and some compensating advantages. But, over time, the salary cap will play a very important role in evening out each franchises ability to get an advantage through recruiting.


Then it will come down to the intangibles, like culture. Sadly, a Sydney-based team will always be behind the 8 ball, for reasons that I have enumerated earlier. But, briefly, a town like Canberra - or Brisbane (still a town in many respects) - or Perth - will have a huge advantage in developing a creative and viable team culture. Melbourne can live off their outsider status for a few years.


Sydney is by far the most competitive rugby marketplace in the nation (if we include the NRL teams in the mix), and the fans are clearly the most fickle and hard to please.


The systemic problems you refer to, and others have referred to, are simply facts of life. If the rugby fans of Sydney and surrounds want a better team, they have to support their team, through thick and thin.


You take the girl to the dance, you take her home. Simple. The fans need to get behind their team, they need to get out and support the Shute Shield, they have to take out memberships and show their passion.

 

[Gnostic]

Sorry Wamberal that is rubbish. The systemic issues have nothing to do with fans. They are not in their control. The board, and other senior management can influence team culture and must LEAD. NSW has rightly had a reputation for politics more convoluted than the Labour party. It should surprise any that such division and loss of focus has feed down to the passing group as it will in any organisation.

 

[I like to watch]

And the notion that everything with recruitment, selection, passion and enthusiasm all comes down to the coach is pretty short sighted. If that was the case you would have seen a noticeable difference in 2012 compared to 2011- not so. Certainly the coach players a key role but there are many more failings at organisational level which need to be sorted as well.

Did you not realise that Foley was ass coach for for 3 years, he was Hickey's sidekick,with many saying he was de facto coach all of last year?
It would be naive to expect any noticeable difference in either processes or output with the same structures in place.

 

[wamberal]

Sorry Wamberal that is rubbish.

I won't waste your time responding to any more of your posts, then.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Gaffney stopped short of calling for changes in the playing squad but said it had been a tough initiation for the likes of debutant fullback Bernard Foley, young winger Tom Kingston and Atieli Pakalani.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/w...s-not-foley-20120529-1zhe4.html#ixzz1wHkkd04B

I would say that these 3 were the least of the Tahs problems, which makes me wonder about Gaffney.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mjw]

Gaffney stopped short of calling for changes in the playing squad but said it had been a tough initiation for the likes of debutant fullback Bernard Foley, young winger Tom Kingston and Atieli Pakalani.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/w...s-not-foley-20120529-1zhe4.html#ixzz1wHkkd04B

I would say that these 3 were the least of the Tahs problems, which makes me wonder about Gaffney.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Gaffney has the record IS. What makes you think he's wrong? Critics on this forum continually dismiss or overlook the young faces and injuries to experienced players as reasons for Tahs position this season. If you know anything more let us know, if not you have said enough. We know your opinion on it, so give it a rest.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Gaffney has the record IS. What makes you think he's wrong? Critics on this forum continually dismiss or overlook the young faces and injuries to experienced players as reasons for Tahs position this season. If you know anything more let us know, if not you have said enough. We know your opinion on it, so give it a rest.

I have not mentioned Gaffney to this point.
Wrong about what?
Who died and made you king?
What's his frigging record got to do with it? is he a protected species?
I dont see how anyone, let alone your guru Gaffney, could think that these 3 blokes have been (a) the problem (b) other than pretty damn good. By naming them in this way he suggests they havent come up to the mark and that they along with injuries are responsible for the Tahs season. if thats not what he ment to convey he should choose his words more carefully and probably not mention players by name when he's on excuse duty.
These guys have done well - Foley in particular.
I smell self preservation.

 

[I like to watch]

Gaffney said it was time the side learnt how to close out games.​

''The players came out of that game [against the Cheetahs] very, very depressed about not having won the game … but they've come back [and] they're in good spirits,'' he said. ''It's tough to take but we know we can play … we've got to also learn how to close games out and win games and that's our problem at the present time.''​

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/waratahs/gaffney-blames-injuries-and-inexperience-for-tahs-failings-not-foley-20120529-1zhe4.html#ixzz1wIkHyeKp​

​

The man is a fucking genius, who would have thought this was an issue?

 

[Richo]

Assistant coach calls coaching decisions "excellent"! Blames injuries and inexperience! Shock! Horror! Breaking fucking news.

Hopefully this isn't the thinking privately amongst the brains trust.

 

[hannibal]

I saw some comment on the Waratahs petiton thats going around so thought I'd say, well I'm the one who's organising it.

I dont want to use this forum as my own personal soap box so thought I'd throw out for comment the following stats I've pulled together from the 2010 to 2012 seasons using Ruckingoodstats mainly and some GAGR/Verusco data from 2010. This is designed to put some hard stats around the performanc of the Tahs over a period of time. Theres been some feelings that are often expressed here and elsewhere and by me, that standards are slipping at the Tahs and have been for some time. The question for the forum is whether 2012's performance is a temporary blip or part of a delcine in standards or culture at the Tahs thats been going on for a while?

At the end of the day I'm a Tah fan, regularly attend games, (and not one whoo boos) and I just want to see actions taken that will make the Tahs competitive again. Right now I see things going in the opposite direction but theres been few willing to step up and direct the debate. This provides something other than anecdotes to work with.

The things I find very interesting here are the stats showing evidence of the fall off in intensity in the second half of so many games, the medium term decline in so many measures and the falling ability to score tries. Theres a whole heap of other data I have incl 19 charts that look at coaching, tactics, the players and the organisaiton. I have my own viewes on what they signify.

Hope these stats can be seen as having some problem getting the images to show, and you find them interesting. Apologies for the size of the post.

 

[Braveheart81]

None of your attachments worked.

Here is the link for your first image: http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7298703824/

From there you can click through to the other two images.

Obviously 2012 has been very disappointing for the Waratahs and their supporters. I'm not really sure what your statistics are trying to say except that we are having a bad season and are performing more poorly than we did in 2010 and 2011.

I would say the most telling statistic this season is that our defence has got worse and we are conceding more tries. From a subjective viewpoint, we are conceding a lot more 'soft' tries.

 

[hannibal]

the images arent coming up so heres all 3 links:

Summary stats: 2010-2012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7298703824/
Skills stats: 2010-2012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7298703338/
1st half / 2nd half stats for 2012 season so far:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7298704358/

 

[hannibal]

None of your attachments worked.

Obviously 2012 has been very disappointing for the Waratahs and their supporters. I'm not really sure what your statistics are trying to say except that we are having a bad season and are performing more poorly than we did in 2010 and 2011.

I would say the most telling statistic this season is that our defence has got worse and we are conceding more tries. From a subjective viewpoint, we are conceding a lot more 'soft' tries.

I think theres more in there than that. When you see them in chart format theres a pretty clear trend over 3 years in attack stats, defence stats, try scoring etc. Second theres potentially cultural implications for a team thats so consistently going to sleep in the 2nd half. They slow down on the scoring, kick more, have less posession and the lead slips away. They've generated a positive points difference in the 2nd half in only 2 out of 13 games in 2012. So the feeling that the Tahs come out hard then ease up after 20 minutes are pretty much on the money.

 

[Braveheart81]

2010 we had a good season and finished third on the table. Drew Mitchell was the equal top tryscorer in the competition.

2011 we had a horrendous run of injuries and lost plenty of key players. Phil Waugh also retired after being the leader of the franchise for a long time. From everything I have ever heard he was a very controlling leader in everything that happened within the Tahs. I think he picked a good time to go as he could have hung on for another season but I don't think it would have been in anyone's interests but clearly a massive void has been left with his departure.

2012 we have again had injury problems to some of our key attacking players (Mitchell and Turner) and losing Kurtley Beale clearly creates a large hole to fill. I think our second half lapses could be the result of not having Phil Waugh around as I think he really made everyone concentrate well and remain focused. We have lost several games due to poor decisions at crucial moments this year.

It has been a poor season but I don't understand what benefit a petition could have. I don't think replacing the board is going to improve how the team performs. I don't think there is some widespread culture problem within the Tahs that is causing us to lose games.

 

[I like to watch]

If you do not recognise the value a good board adds to a business, then no one will ever convince you otherwise.
The new board appointed the CEO and the current coach.
I am interested to see how the CEO is progressing with his 10:3:1 plan.
How they deal with these appointments will be the measure of them.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think a quality board is of vital importance to any organisation.

Clearly their appointments of the CEO and the coach has a huge impact on how the Waratahs operate.

I tend to think though that having Drew Mitchell and Lachie Turner fit and in form for 2013 is likely to net us more tries than replacing the board though.

I think having more stable leadership (where the captain of the team is actually on the field for most of the season) is more likely to lead to better decisions at crucial times late in games.

 

[I like to watch]

Are you suggesting they lack leadership on the field is due to an unforseen injury to Elsom, or is it due to the 8 man leadership group appointed at the commencement of the season in some way?

 

[Braveheart81]

Mainly the Elsom situation. Even when he was out injured, he was clearly the captain of the club and that reflected in his involvement with training and meetings and everything else they did (based on everything I have heard, mainly from Lee Grant).

Given that, it can't have been good that for most of the season, someone else was captain on the field.

I think it was always going to be difficult to replace Phil Waugh in the first year because of how dominant a leader he was. I think the Elsom situation has not helped things though.

I think making Halangahu the captain in the first couple of games was also a mistake given they had a large leadership group already that he wasn't part of, however I don't see it as being a major reason for the leadership
problems.