Waratahs 2012

[waratahjesus]

Mate,


I have been around Eastwood since the year dot, and for most of those years they have struggled, on, and off, the field. Do you really think that Eastwood has any clout at all at headquarters?


Hickey was one of the most successful coaches, before his time with Eastwood, and he did pretty well there as well. Who would you have had instead of Hickey at the time he was appointed?


As for the rest of your fanciful post, I will assume you are either joking, or attempting to, or you have been out for a long lunch, and leave it at that.

i believe what i posted 110% and nothing you have posted makes a case for me being wrong.

 

[Rob42]

Could the Tah's problem be;
To Uni heavey and that culture, I mean a club rugby side Eastwood knocked a Super 15 side over in last years GF.
Try and take it constructively.
Cheers,

To spare Bruce Ross from having to, for the umpteenth time, defend Sydney Uni, what he would say is this: whilst the Tahs have a reasonable number of Uni players in their squad, the training methods and team culture are very different between the two. Bruce would point out, for instance, that the S&C work done by the Uni squad focuses on continuing heavy weight training throughout the season, whereas the Tahs go in the opposite direction. Bruce suggests the inability of the Tahs to close out games, or to make poor decisions in the last quarter of a game, may well be related to this.

Uni players yes, Uni culture no. Though my only knowledge of the subject is having read Bruce make this argument one million times against the Uni knockers.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS I can't say I've never booed someone, but I think it's a low act and that doesn't just apply to the Tahs
I'm going to go all Matt Burke now, but I can't imagine what it would be like to be booed by 1000s of people. In the scheme of things it's just a game, but there are some people who wouldn't handle that humiliation well. There is an article on depression in rugby players in the Clyde Rathbone thread that provides some insight (it was an eye opener for me.)

These guys devote their life to play rugby professionally. Many of us say it's a privilege and we would love to have the opportunity, but I wonder if we really would want to go through the challenges ( injuries, rehab, training etc.)

I would say the players do care about the fans. They put their bodies through hell and we are part of the reason why they do it. It would be pretty tough to have put your body through that, yet come up with a result that your are bitterly disappointed with. Then your fans rub salt in the wounds by booing.

These guys are paid twice the average wage to play a game they were playing for nothing a few short years ago.
They are in a better position than any of us to address the Tahs' issues.
Further, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

 

[barbarian]

Just because they are paid more than us it doesn't mean it's open slather when it comes to abuse.

Your closing line is "you're either part of the problem or part of the solution." I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this, just one of those statements that sounds profound and meaningful but upon closer examination means precisely zero. Especially in regards to rugby.
.

 

[wamberal]

i believe what i posted 110% and nothing you have posted makes a case for me being wrong.

Errrr, hard to argue with a statement like that. But, in the interests of open debate, I will try again.


Firstly, who are the Eastwood powerbrokers who were behind the move to instal Hickey as coach?


Secondly, at the time Hickey was installed, who would you have preferred in his stead?



Finally, if Hickey's coaching was bad enough to destroy the Uni players under his tutelage, why didn't he destroy players like Lachie Turner, and Benn Robinson as well? Or was his awfulness selective?

 

[waratahjesus]

you're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

so if these people cheered when the tahs did something they liked and where silent when they didn't, it would have a far more positive affect.

 

[waratahjesus]

Errrr, hard to argue with a statement like that. But, in the interests of open debate, I will try again.


Firstly, who are the Eastwood powerbrokers who were behind the move to instal Hickey as coach?


Secondly, at the time Hickey was installed, who would you have preferred in his stead?



Finally, if Hickey's coaching was bad enough to destroy the Uni players under his tutelage, why didn't he destroy players like Lachie Turner, and Benn Robinson as well? Or was his awfulness selective?

mate, was just having a lend, every time the tahs do something people come out with conspiracy theories, was just getting in first, no one at Eastwood is smart enough to pull off a plan like this, thats what made my suggestion funny.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

so if these people cheered when the tahs did something they liked and where silent when they didn't, it would have a far more positive affect.

Really - these blokes are grown men. if they need positive reinforcement they can go home to their mothers.
I believe that this attitude of forgiving them their sins and glossing over their sub-par performances by recognising the good in their losing efforts is a huge part of what is wrong with them.
HTFU.

 

[waratahjesus]

Really - these blokes are grown men. if they need positive reinforcement they can go home to their mothers.
I believe that this attitude of forgiving them their sins and glossing over their sub-par performances by recognising the good in their losing efforts is a huge part of what is wrong with them.
HTFU.

haha

my main problem is, with the fan forum and booing, it seems to be coming from a patch of people in the members stand, now these people pay money and i usually am happy for them to voice there opinion, but if your not giving the positive when its due, you really should treat the negative the same way.

 

[barbarian]

Really - these blokes are grown men. if they need positive reinforcement they can go home to their mothers.
I believe that this attitude of forgiving them their sins and glossing over their sub-par performances by recognising the good in their losing efforts is a huge part of what is wrong with them.
HTFU.

Who is glossing over their sub-par performances? No team cops as much flak as the Tahs, from both their fans and other observers. And from going to their pressers it isn't like they are in denial.

But contrary to what you say we shouldn't only highlight the negatives in all of their performances. Like it or not their have been a few positives, and talking about them occasionally allows me to keep my sanity.
.

 

[I like to watch]

Just because they are paid more than us it doesn't mean it's open slather when it comes to abuse.

Open slather? Really?
If you are speaking on their behalf, then that's the problem..way too precious.

The people who fork out their hard earned and boo them on occasion, have more of a right to be heard than those politically correct hand wringers who don't go and who don't buy merchandise, who moralise about how true fans behave.
BTW I don't boo, I voice my protest by refusing to buy tickets anymore.

 

[waratahjesus]

Open slather? Really?
If you are speaking on their behalf, then that's the problem..way too precious.

The people who fork out their hard earned and boo them on occasion, have more of a right to be heard than those politically correct hand wringers who don't go and who don't buy merchandise, who moralise about how true fans behave.
BTW I don't boo, I voice my protest by refusing to buy tickets anymore.

so if people that don't go can't voice an opinion on those that boo, why can you?

 

[barbarian]

Open slather? Really?
If you are speaking on their behalf, then that's the problem..way too precious.

The people who fork out their hard earned and boo them on occasion, have more of a right to be heard than those politically correct hand wringers who don't go and who don't buy merchandise, who moralise about how true fans behave.
BTW I don't boo, I voice my protest by refusing to buy tickets anymore.

Why would I be speaking on their behalf? You know I am not Phil Waugh, despite what my avatar displays.

Considering the amount of flak they take from all corners and the amount they give back (none) I would suggest the problem of the Tahs is not that they are 'too precious'.

 

[I like to watch]

And from going to their pressers it isn't like they are in denial.

BUT THEY ARE IN DENIAL.
The coach is in fucking excuse mode in post match interviews.
"Hardly anyone wins here"
"We did some good things"
etc etc etc etc etc etc
When you are making excuses, you are not looking within to face your deficiencies.
If you don't acknowledge it, you can't deal with it, if you don't deal with it then you can't fix it.
I have made this point before, so over and out for me

 

[Dave Beat]

ROB42 wrote
To spare Bruce Ross from having to, for the umpteenth time, defend Sydney Uni, what he would say is this: whilst the Tahs have a reasonable number of Uni players in their squad, the training methods and team culture are very different between the two. Bruce would point out, for instance, that the S&C work done by the Uni squad focuses on continuing heavy weight training throughout the season, whereas the Tahs go in the opposite direction. Bruce suggests the inability of the Tahs to close out games, or to make poor decisions in the last quarter of a game, may well be related to this.

Uni players yes, Uni culture no. Though my only knowledge of the subject is having read Bruce make this argument one million times against the Uni knockers.

I wrote the above to create thought, and improvement for the Tah's;
Not knocking Uni, they are what they are. A Club side beat a University side (sorry a S15 side) last year
We have a Waratah's squad made up of predominately Uni players, and other provincial sides made up of Shute sheild club players.
We have the strongest club rugby comp in Australia, it would be a bold tip now trying to pick a winner year end as Parra almost knocked off the Woodies, Rith almost knocked off the Marlins.
This is a Waratah's menu (thread), I'm just looking at the ingrediants and trying to make it constructive so we support our profincial side rather than boo them.

Whilst we are reading the menu, Aust most succesful profincial side has always fed off the players not signed up by the Tah's.
I'd have to go way back to 89 when McQueen coached us to show a good operation from top to bottom, and I think that Tah's side was instrumental in what was created for 91 world cup triumph

 

[It is what it is]

Booing, whinging, crying - enough!
I'll tell you who'd give them (the players) something to cry about - Cheika.
He'd also give them purpose and enjoyment in their rugby.
The players would hear blunt, honest and constructive truth about their individual and collective performances, both the good and the bad.
It's a guarantee the some of these spoilt prima donnas would hear this stuff for the 1st time in their protected, cocooned and insulated lives.
Then we'd see who'd run to their managers, club officials, the media and their mummy.
He won't come because they couldn't handle him, but if he did, we wouldn't be writing about 90% of the frustrations expressed over 178 pages (so far) on this forum......people would be accountable at ALL levels at the Waratahs too.

 

[barbarian]

BUT THEY ARE IN DENIAL.
The coach is in fucking excuse mode in post match interviews.
"Hardly anyone wins here"
"We did some good things"
etc etc etc etc etc etc
When you are making excuses, you are not looking within to face your deficiencies.
If you don't acknowledge it, you can't deal with it, if you don't deal with it then you can't fix it.
I have made this point before, so over and out for me

Wince when do you judge an attitude of a side by what the coach says in a post-game press conference?

They are ALWAYS cliched excuses on both sides. "We'll learn from this and move forward" etc. etc.

Look I am not saying there aren't big issues in Tahland which need to be dealt with. I think their problems are multi-faceted and to simply say 'they're in denial' or 'they're too precious' oversimplifies the situation dramatically.

I'd suggest their main issues come back to enthusiasm and passion more than anything. Plus there are coaching issues and recruitment issues and selection issues.
.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

But contrary to what you say we shouldn't only highlight the negatives in all of their performances. Like it or not their have been a few positives, and talking about them occasionally allows me to keep my sanity.
.

Baa Baa - this is a joke so don't take it the wrong way - since when are you the person best able to assess your own sanity?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Who is glossing over their sub-par performances? No team cops as much flak as the Tahs, from both their fans and other observers. And from going to their pressers it isn't like they are in denial.

But contrary to what you say we shouldn't only highlight the negatives in all of their performances. Like it or not their have been a few positives, and talking about them occasionally allows me to keep my sanity.
.

I expressed that badly - I don't mean (at the moment) that if they don't win they shouldn't say anything good.
What i really mean is that there is a concerted cheer squad - even as late as last MOnday i think the SMH was saying they were still a chance to make the semis - for all I know they are still saying it and they still are a chance. But so what? most followers of the tahs would see a semis berth as a needless prolongation of the agony and unjust reward for a poor season.
and then there is all this stuff about a few poor decisions etc etc that gets trotted out in the post match every week: thats just lame ex post facto justification. it hides the real issues. It has a huge capacity to piss people off because whether in the privacy of the club rooms they are saying differently it gives fans the impression that they can and will always find an excuse as opposed to a reason.
Contrary to al pacino in

"on any given sunday" (despite its stirring character) this is not a game of inches: right or wrong it just isn't that fine a line between success and failure. A few poor decisions don't lose you a game let alone destroy your season.
What loses games is a poor underlying structure - a poor theoretical framework in which to make the mundane decisions: for instance, kicking away turnover ball.
Rule 1 - never kick away turnover ball;
When that rule is tattooed on the inside of their eyelids we might mention an exception to rule 1..... and move to rule 2
Framework...remove the ad hoc decision making....make fewer decisions...before you know it their calling you the 'saders and you're actually snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

 

[I like to watch]

Wince when do you judge an attitude of a side by what the coach says in a post-game press conference?

They are ALWAYS cliched excuses on both sides. "We'll learn from this and move forward" etc. etc.

Look I am not saying there aren't big issues in Tahland which need to be dealt with. I think their problems are multi-faceted and to simply say 'they're in denial' or 'they're too precious' oversimplifies the situation dramatically.

I'd suggest their main issues come back to enthusiasm and passion more than anything. Plus there are coaching issues and recruitment issues and selection issues.
.

All these things are the responsibility of the coach!
The only other thing that the coach is responsible for is tactics!
So in simple terms you must be saying ......?
Hardly multi faceted!
BTW your twee response(Wince) does not really add to the tone of the joint,
your inference that you understand more, because they allow you in the back of the press room is undermined by your assertion that the responses are cliched.