Waratahs 2012

[Hawko]

So before Beale, which Waratahs player last got in trouble with the law? Bit of trivia for anyone here, cause its not in my living memory. No the Waratahs don't need a culture change, they need an attitude change. Please don't get them confused.

In all the grasping at memories of who was last to front the law, I think #1 Tah's point has been lost. The incidents dredged up are from years ago. Ergo, the Tahs do not have a culture problem.

They do have an attitude problem. If you watch the good New Zealand teams they are all willing and longing to have a run at the opposition, they want to be the one to cart it up so they hit the line begging for their turn to take a run and are at full pace when they do. I doubt you can find too many cases in Saturday's game where a Tah ran up at full pace hoping their turn to take a run was this time. You'll find plenty of players taking the ball flat footed and stepping up to do their duty. When you are doing your duty you hit the line with a lot less force than when you are longing for a chance to take a hit-up.

You can understand a little that players are only "doing their duty". Look at Cutch, put in a huge effort, scored to get us back in front, gone for the season. I could go through the others too. Right now the injury toll psychologically is causing players to play carefully and without abandon. After the injury toll last season and this season so far can you blame them? Anyone who really has a go seems to get cut down, like Cliffy, Cutch, Mitchell, Vicks, TPN, etc. Where is Kamakazi TPN? Everyone's told him to be careful and change his game.

At this level, the psychological edge is what makes the difference. After two very hard games, both ending in disappointment, and a year and a half of catastrophic injuries they came up against a team they were expected to beat resoundingly. They played within themselves, cautiously, carefully, not wanting to get injured. And got beaten which is what happens when your mind is not in the right place.

I think we'll see a different team this week. A defeat to the wooden spooners has the effect of concentrating the mind. They'll need some luck, a couple of injuries early could mess with their mind, but they are due some luck. Virtually all the bad decisions this year have favoured the opposition team, but that happens when your luck is down. That ladder they collectively walked under a year and a half ago has got to run out soon. And when it does some teams are going to get a real hiding.

 

[qwerty51]

It's a good point Hawko, especially in regards to Horne and TPN's form, they're both very tentative and weary about their bodies and their performances are suffering because of it.

 

[Bowside]

The only problem the waratahs have is that as an organisation they make too many excuses.

Oh we have to compete with the nrl.
We've had injuries.
It rained earlier thats why the crowd was bad.
The SFS is too far away from my house.
The Olympic Stadium is too far away from my house.
We have poor membership numbers because we didn't win the title last year.

I am sure there are others as well. The point I am trying to make is that all teams face these problems - and until the organisation as a whole is willing to tackle them head on they will just fester and erode the team culture and fanbase.

 

[MrMouse]

I agree 100% with both Hawko and Bowside. Which seems oxymoronic since they are arguing differing cases. Oh well!

 

[BPC]

In view of this do you not think it odd, RH, that they took the field without their designated kick chaser?

I think it is odd that TC is the only one who consistently does it properly. Even rugby league players manage to master it after three or four years.

 

[BPC]

Wish I was a fly on the wall in court when he tried to explain that..

Sort of like "'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it" by the Americans during the Vietnam War.

 

[Jnor]

In all the grasping at memories of who was last to front the law, I think #1 Tah's point has been lost. The incidents dredged up are from years ago. Ergo, the Tahs do not have a culture problem.

They do have an attitude problem. If you watch the good New Zealand teams they are all willing and longing to have a run at the opposition, they want to be the one to cart it up so they hit the line begging for their turn to take a run and are at full pace when they do. I doubt you can find too many cases in Saturday's game where a Tah ran up at full pace hoping their turn to take a run was this time. You'll find plenty of players taking the ball flat footed and stepping up to do their duty. When you are doing your duty you hit the line with a lot less force than when you are longing for a chance to take a hit-up.

You can understand a little that players are only "doing their duty". Look at Cutch, put in a huge effort, scored to get us back in front, gone for the season. I could go through the others too. Right now the injury toll psychologically is causing players to play carefully and without abandon. After the injury toll last season and this season so far can you blame them? Anyone who really has a go seems to get cut down, like Cliffy, Cutch, Mitchell, Vicks, TPN, etc. Where is Kamakazi TPN? Everyone's told him to be careful and change his game.

At this level, the psychological edge is what makes the difference. After two very hard games, both ending in disappointment, and a year and a half of catastrophic injuries they came up against a team they were expected to beat resoundingly. They played within themselves, cautiously, carefully, not wanting to get injured. And got beaten which is what happens when your mind is not in the right place.

I think we'll see a different team this week. A defeat to the wooden spooners has the effect of concentrating the mind. They'll need some luck, a couple of injuries early could mess with their mind, but they are due some luck. Virtually all the bad decisions this year have favoured the opposition team, but that happens when your luck is down. That ladder they collectively walked under a year and a half ago has got to run out soon. And when it does some teams are going to get a real hiding.

Cracker post Hawko, like wasn't enough for that one. The thing that sticks in my mind is how the hell do you go about fixing it?

 

[Braveheart81]

Barnes trained at 10 today.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/barnes-in-line-for-waratahs-no10-role-20120319-1vfc2.html

 

[qwerty51]

Finally, I'm hoping for this team

1. Robinson 2. TPN 3. Kepu 4. Douglas 5. Timani 6. Dennis 7. Jenkins 8. Palu 9. Pretorius 10. Barnes 11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 12. Carter 13. Horne 14. Pakalani 15. Foley 16. Ulugia 17. Tilse 18. Mumm 19. Alcock 20. McKibbin 21. Halangahu 22. Kingston

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Tilse deserves a crack. Paddy Ryan really hasn't been great and has hurt our scrum when he has come on.

 

[MrMouse]

Finally, I'm hoping for this team

1. Robinson 2. TPN 3. Kepu 4. Douglas 5. Timani 6. Dennis 7. Jenkins 8. Palu 9. Pretorius 10. Barnes 11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 12. Carter 13. Horne 14. Pakalani 15. Foley 16. Ulugia 17. Tilse 18. Mumm 19. Alcock 20. McKibbin 21. Halangahu 22. Kingston

I'd be ok with that, but I don't know if Afa is ready yet is he? Also, I don't think Sitaleki has much in the tank at the moment, but if he has orders to give everything til he's stuffed then put up his hand I'm happy. The alternative to that would be:
1. Robinson 2. TPN 3. Kepu 4. Douglas 5. Timani 6. Dennis 7. Jenkins 8. Palu 9. Pretorius 10. Barnes 11. Kingston 12. Carter 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 14. Pakalani 15. Foley 16. Ulugia 17. Tilse/Ryan 18. Mumm 19. Alcock 20. McKibbin 21. Halangahu 22. Horne

 

[mjw]

Finally, I'm hoping for this team

1. Robinson 2. TPN 3. Kepu 4. Douglas 5. Timani 6. Dennis 7. Jenkins 8. Palu 9. Pretorius 10. Barnes 11. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 12. Carter 13. Horne 14. Pakalani 15. Foley 16. Ulugia 17. Tilse 18. Mumm 19. Alcock 20. McKibbin 21. Halangahu 22. Kingston

I think both Timani's deserve a go somewhere in the team but I would be happy with something like that.

 

[Brumby Jack]

I can't help but mention the 3 losses, and close ones at that, have been the result of poor kicking.

Vs Qld kicked it back to them instead of out
Vs Otago didn't kick a simple conversion
Vs Force aimless kicking in general

Maybe time to get Ben Perkins in there?

 

[qwerty51]

It's not even that surprising the performance of Ryan, in the Shute Shield finals the Uni scrum with Tilse and Ryan (Sam Talakai was loosey) was dominated by Manly and Eastwood, their pack included the same Tahs players that are packing behind them now Mumm, Dennis, Jenkins.. so the issue was in the front row. I don't think Tilse is going to do much better from what I saw but he deserves the opportunity because he's done quite well in the past and Ryan is attracting too many penalties.

 

[MrMouse]

I think both Timani's deserve a go somewhere in the team but I would be happy with something like that.

Yes, if Cliffy's not fit L.Timani should be running on...

 

[MrMouse]

Maybe time to get Ben Perkins in there?

True.

 

[Elfster]

I think, hopefully and optimistically, that the Waratahs will lift for the game against the Sharks. For all their faults I do believe that there is sufficient pride in the team to overcome any mental afflictions that have surfaced in the last two weeks.

And by playing positively should go a long way in overcoming their current malaise. Which I think is a mixture of fear of failure and fear of injury.

 

[qwerty51]

It's the Sharks

 

[Jnor]

Yes, if Cliffy's not fit L.Timani should be running on...

Cliffy's not out again already is he? I thought he had a good game (relatively speaking) on Sat

 

[Elfster]

It's the Sharks

Thanks!