Waratahs 2012

[RedsHappy]

Brilliant.

The contrast between the Brumbies and Tahs over the last year is fascinating to observe. Both seen as being too arrogant to there own good, not getting results, team morale at an all time low, etc. Brumbies are trying to fix the problem but having a good clean out and getting a coach that wants to change the culture. Tahs have promoted their new coach from within and are in a state of denial.

I was at the Tahs v Reds game and what should out for me is how miserable the tahs looked. You'd think with a new coach and a game against your rivals you'd be busting out of skin.

Agree louie. This is a crucial point. It was open to the Tahs to recruit a top international coach, and drive a cultural and player change program. It's somewhat obvious they actively decided against that course. They then appointed (a) a seriously injured fading star as Captain, then announced he'd not play until, what, Rnd 6-8, they then (b) anointed a Leadership Group of 8 players then (c) announced a pre-real-Captain as just-for-now Captain although this latter Captain was not in the original Leadership Group. How does this inspire credibility and genuine internal confidence-building?

To me much was summed up with TPN being widely quoted on Sunday as saying they didn't care less about the crowd booing as the game plan was to kick, etc. Whatever the faults and foibles of the Reds players, I guarantee you that no Reds player under the current Reds management culture would think that re their fans, let alone say it, and, if they did, they'd be in the CEO's office the next morning getting reprimanded and told they'd got their thinking totally wrong.

 

[DPK]

I guarantee you that no Reds player under the current Reds management culture would think that re their fans, let alone say it, and, if they did, they'd be in the CEO's office the next morning getting reprimanded and told they'd got their thinking totally wrong.

That is some guarantee, RH...

 

[Bruce Ross]

To me much was summed up with TPN being widely quoted on Sunday as saying they didn't care less about the crowd booing as the game plan was to kick, etc.

In view of this do you not think it odd, RH, that they took the field without their designated kick chaser?

 

[Brumbies Guy]

In view of this do you not think it odd, RH, that they took the field without their designated kick chaser?

Now Tom Carter is the only person that knows to run onto a ball being kicked?

 

[Braveheart81]

Now Tom Carter is the only person that knows to run onto a ball being kicked?

All evidence points to yes.

 

[fatprop]

In view of this do you not think it odd, RH, that they took the field without their designated kick chaser?

I found it odd that the team chose to not put in the effort.

A bad chase (and clean out) is just one more example of a side not putting in. They waited for someone else to do something all night

 

[barbarian]

Come on Bruce, give it a rest. We get the point, and a lot of us agree. However you are starting to become a one-issue bloke, and you are way better than that.

And I say that with all respect, as a long time fan of your analysis and wit.

 

[Braveheart81]

Amongst many issues, we have seemingly lost the ability to score tries.

This is potentially explained by the fact that out of our 8 top try scorers from 2011, we only have one currently in the starting XV (2 if you count Pretorius).

Mitchell 6 - injured
Carter 6 - benched
Turner 4 - injured
Beale 4 - gone
Dennis 4 - actually playing!
Cross 4 - gone
Pakelani - 3 injured
Anesi 3 - gone

 

[RedsHappy]

In view of this do you not think it odd, RH, that they took the field without their designated kick chaser?

Bruce, I absolutely agree to not go with TC was, well, inexplicable in this game especially with TPN's declaration that kicking was a central plank of the game plan. But, IMO, there's many inexplicable elements to the Tahs and NSWRU policies re same, this is no. 26 in a queue waiting for the mystery's explanations. And I'm on record as believing in the Tahs and genuinely wanting them to win the S15 championship asap, for the good of all Aus rugby obviously, and their loyal fans deserve nothing less.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Come on Bruce, give it a rest. ... you are starting to become a one-issue bloke,

Thanks for the counsel, barbarian, or is it an instruction?

I was under the misapprehension that I contributed to discussion here on quite a diverse range of issues.

 

[gbp]

so much for not kicking unless it's the only option...

 

[barbarian]

Thanks for the counsel, barbarian, or is it an instruction?

I was under the misapprehension that I contributed to discussion here on quite a diverse range of issues.

Of course not, and I wasn't suggesting this is all you do.

But more and more it seems every Waratah thread ends in a discussion of Tom fucking Carter. I am not suggesting this is your fault specifically, but you certainly don't help. And whilst I am very sympathetic to your viewpoint, you need to understand we all know how you feel on this issue. But it seems you feel compelled to make the point at least 2 or 3 times every thread.

Which is fine, but you have to understand people will start to switch off after a while when they see yet another spirited stats-based defence of Carter, no matter how relevant or incisive it may be.

.

 

[Joe Mac]

To change the topic a little, I think that the Tah's bench is shit. Admittedly they have quite a few injuries but when the fresh legs got on the pitch our team still looked as worn-out as a cucumber in a convent...

Where have we found so many mediocre players? Especially Alcock.

 

[mjw]

the game plan was to kick

The problem was the poor execution under pressure of the kick in the second half. Around my seat at the game it was not so much a boo as a collective groan.

 

[mjw]

To change the topic a little, I think that the Tah's bench is shit. Admittedly they have quite a few injuries but when the fresh legs got on the pitch our team still looked as worn-out as a cucumber in a convent...

Where have we found so many mediocre players? Especially Alcock.

Why do you complain when the guys who should be on the bench are out there playing in the first 15. The answer is plain and clear - the team is crippled with injuries and everyone is complaining about Tahs second and third best players. And there is nothing wrong with Alcock.

 

[MrMouse]

Especially Alcock.

When he burst on to the scene as a temporary replacement for the demented dwarf, he set the world on fire - energy, hardness on the ball, link play etc. Where the hell did that player go?

I agree that if you look at the bench on the w/e Ulugia - offered nothing (although he was fit, so should have come on 5-10min early when TPN was stuffed). Paddy Ryan - looking so fit, not quite finding his feet. Sitaleki - looking not very fit, but provided energy and a bit 'o' bully. Alcock - offered nothing, just disappeared really. Stanford - did he get on?. McKibbin - please don't make me laugh. Carter - provided energy, direction and starch. Should have been in the XV.

 

[louie]

Wj, redshappy replies to your comment nicely.

 

[Torn Hammy]

The premiership winning Eastwood backline of 2011 to my mind is what all teams should be aiming for.

They had the ability to continually attack the opposition across every position. White, Hola and Piukala would love to run at you, so you had to markup or get cut to shreds. These guys usually bent or broke the defensive line and had the opposition on their heels. Once this was done the ball was spun out to the speedie and elusive Bennetts, Frost, Grant and Batger. This was their main winning game plan. Sure they kicked for field position, but they always came back to relentlessly attacking across the field to score tries. I loved watching them play.

The Waratah backline of the last two games compares very poorly. There is no desire from the inside backs to run hard at their opponents. they don't bend or break the line often enough to set up their outside men and often when they do, they get isolated and lose the advantage of the contest. Without a crash ball runner everything goes laterally and the wingers and fullback are running into crowds of defenders. Their is no guile at five-eighth, nor is there a pass that hits a man running out wide at top speed.

Pretorius should dart often and I would like to see Barnes at 10 and Carter at 12 and have the coach tell them to run at their opponents with the support of their forwards. They can do this and do it well. This will give better ball to the outside backs and hopefully a return of confidence and form.

 

[Scotty]

Clearly if you are going for a forward orientated kicking game, you don't need another ball player at 12. Who cares if the bloody 12 can pass if he is instructed to kick at all opportunities, and who is surprised when the outside backs look clueless, when finally the said 12 decides he might throw a pass - they were in shock!

The other point I'd make is even if you have a back three of Turner, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell - they aren't going to make any difference unless they actually get the ball!

 

[Badger]

To me much was summed up with TPN being widely quoted on Sunday as saying they didn't care less about the crowd booing as the game plan was to kick, etc. Whatever the faults and foibles of the Reds players, I guarantee you that no Reds player under the current Reds management culture would think that re their fans, let alone say it, and, if they did, they'd be in the CEO's office the next morning getting reprimanded and told they'd got their thinking totally wrong.

I like TPN and he is one of the more popular current Tah players, so I was disappointed to read his quote on the weekend, especially with all the rumblings coming out of Tah HQ about making or re-establising connections with the fans and community, in general.

The fans could see the kicking game plan wasn't working and hasn't worked to any great degree on past occasions. From where I was at the SFS, it was more a groans and rolling of the eyeballs than booing. It would be more concerning if the fans didn't react.

As a Tahs fan, I would expect someone from Tah management to have a word with TPN about the quote.