Waratahs 2012

[Lee Grant]

Not suggesting he is a replica or as good, but his style of play reminds me of Brian O'Driscoll somewhat

Ever since I first saw him at 15 Horne has impressed me with his decision making and general quickness of mind, both with and without the ball, which then was that of a man against boys. He still has it, and in that respect he is much like Horan or BOD (a 13 who I always thought should be playing 12, but I digress).

People got a glimpse of his playing 12 against the USA in the RWC and maybe gave some credence, if anybody remembered, of my mentioning how well he played there for NSW Schools when he moved in to accommodate other players. We didn't see in the RWC what a good ball player he is at 12 nor what a dab hand, or foot, he was with kicking from hand, but he had those tools in his kit bag as a boy.

I'm torn between wanting to see him play 12 in Super Rugby, if Carter happens to be hurt, or keeping him at 13 for all time. But that is as nothing compared to wanting him to stay healthy.

Not to the point of the Tahs but there was another young man who reminds me a bit of how Horne played as a boy. When I saw him he was playing U/16s also, last year. I don't want to put pressure on the lad, as I didn't with Horne, just comparing them at the same age - and who knows for sure if he can take his game to the senior level, or even if he will play union - but his name is Jack Tuttle.

Watch this space.

 

[Jets]

I'm looking forward to seeing a bit more of Tom Kingston this year. He did a couple of things during games I watched that excited me.

I'm also not sure why any 13 would want to play in another position as it is an area of weakness for Australian rugby at the moment.

 

[Lee Grant]

Agree there's something about young Tom. I had seen it when he was at school but it was just 12 months ago nearly that I realised that he had it as a senior player because he was the star turn of the Junior Waratahs pre-season games.

He also has the 'one step ahead' quick thinking attributes of Horne and the others we have mentioned without suggesting that they are in the same class as one another. Like with a good soccer player who uses the ball at the right time and seldom kicks it away to the other side, Kingston is good at weighing up opportunities and taking the best one, or at least the one least likely to lose the ball in.

He's going to need more than that to be a successful pro player but it's not a bad attribute to have when young.

 

[tranquility]

Kingston is good, no doubt. But I think Horne is a cut above.

12. JOC (James O'Connor) 13. Horne

Doesn't it have a lot of Horan-Little about it...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

no

 

[Lee Grant]

Getting back to the Tahs: Horne is a cut above Kingston all right, as he should be. He's had 4 professional seasons, albeit with a lot of injury, and played for the Wallabies. Compare that with Kingston who started in 2 games on the wing when Barnes was out in 2011 and the backline reorganised, and was on the bench 4 times. Kingston may have missed some opportunities during the 2011 Oz U/20 process but that won't apply this year.

It's important that Kingston be good enough to step into Horne's shoes because if he is injured again, with no Cross in the squad this year, we need him to be able to step up into the starting team. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be needed to play fullback.

I think Randwick man Gaffney will like the cut of Tom's jib. As Jets said: he can do some exciting things. Who knows: if he trials well he could start on the wing early if Mitchell isn't ready to play, though he is a natural 13.

 

[fatprop]

I was also impressed with Kingston's work for Uni after the S15, very solid, aware and workmanlike, which are positives .

The caveat so far for me is does he have that special something that the likes of Horne has (and even Carter has) - to turn a game either in defense or attack.

 

[suckerforred]

Reading the last few pages I seem to notice that the Tahs have a lot of players who are suited, if not prefered, in the 13 jumper. Kingston, Horne, Carter, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)...... Does this mean that BB will be playing 12 you think? Or will BB stay at 10 and these mob fight out who gets 12.

 

[Lee Grant]

fatprop

I've seen him do it on attack both for the Junior Tahs and Oz Under 20. Haven't seen it on defence, nor can I remember too many blunders either. He's still just 20 years old; so let's see.


sucker

My bet would be that its: 10. Barnes, 12. Carter and 13. Horne plus 15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Reading the last few pages I seem to notice that the Tahs have a lot of players who are suited, if not prefered, in the 13 jumper. Kingston, Horne, Carter, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)...... Does this mean that BB will be playing 12 you think? Or will BB stay at 10 and these mob fight out who gets 12.

Choo Choo Carter 12

 

[Swat]

Choo Choo Carter 12

If you're implying that carter is a steam train I see no problems with this. He goes hard and rolls mother f#ckers...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

there are a number of implications...thats one of them. Others are that he runs like he is on rails - straight rails - and never deviates from them; he has a predetermined route which cannot be reprogrammed.....etc etc
I see no call to move him from 12 in favour of any of the others - he is a typical Oz centre

 

[Swat]

Reading the last few pages I seem to notice that the Tahs have a lot of players who are suited, if not prefered, in the 13 jumper. Kingston, Horne, Carter, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)...... Does this mean that BB will be playing 12 you think? Or will BB stay at 10 and these mob fight out who gets 12.

Barnes will still be 10 unless Hangers has found some of his spark of old or Foley is performing but chances are Sookface will remain at 10, Chariots at 12 and Horne at 13. That said, new coach could mean new tactics and moving players around a lot.... going to have to wait and see

 

[mjw]

Barnes will still be 10 unless Hangers has found some of his spark of old ...

I thought Hangers last year was well down on confidence and I suspect it was due to lack of faith shown by the coach. Hopefully over the injury now and contributing to the team.

 

[Swat]

I thought Hangers last year was well down on confidence and I suspect it was due to lack of faith shown by the coach. Hopefully over the injury now and contributing to the team.

Really the past 2 seasons he's been poor. He needs to start attacking the line like he used to

 

[waratahjesus]

I thought Hangers last year was well down on confidence and I suspect it was due to lack of faith shown by the coach. Hopefully over the injury now and contributing to the team.

Not sure it was lack of faith. He is a back up. Never been more. The game (blues I think, may b wrong) when he got his first start. He made some poor decisions and he dropped his shoulders. His tackling was also terrible. I like the guy, I think he gives 100% but he has never been a first 15 player.

 

[fatprop]

I thought he was coming back from a shoulder re-const and was patchy early in the season.

He got better

 

[suckerforred]

Barnes will still be 10 unless Hangers has found some of his spark of old or Foley is performing but chances are Sookface will remain at 10, Chariots at 12 and Horne at 13. That said, new coach could mean new tactics and moving players around a lot.... going to have to wait and see

Still think that Berick is a better 12 then he is 10. IMO.

 

[Swat]

Still think that Berick is a better 12 then he is 10. IMO.

So do I, I also think JOC (James O'Connor) is a better 12 than 10 and a better 12 than Berrick and Berrick is a better 10 than JOC (James O'Connor) but until Robbie thinks that way JOC (James O'Connor) will play 10 internationally and Berrick 12 when during the S15 they'll do the opposite... Conclusion, Dingo is mental.

 

[mjw]

Not sure it was lack of faith. He is a back up. Never been more. The game (blues I think, may b wrong) when he got his first start. He made some poor decisions and he dropped his shoulders. His tackling was also terrible. I like the guy, I think he gives 100% but he has never been a first 15 player.

I guess what I was saying is that he had a bad season on his previous standard. Not a first 15 player but you need confidence in your back up players. I think in 2010 he won the game against the Blues singlehandedly.